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  #1  
Old 05-13-2014, 08:05 PM
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Panzer Jager '43 Panzer Jager '43 is online now
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Default IOM asking the community for some help!

Hey guys,

I'm one of Dibbler's minions working on the IOM mod (I had created the "Better Realism" portion prior to it's combination with Sound Mutator.) If you run into me online my Steam name is "Tremozl".

I'm looking for some help from the Community in setting up the Rising Storm side of IOM. I'm not looking for coders, modelers, etc... just looking for Community input regarding Roles and Weapons in Rising Storm.

What we would love is if someone (can be more than one person providing input!) who is knowledgeable and passionate about history, would advise me on how to set up the Roles for Rising Storm. To explain this, I'm looking for what equipment should be issued to the Roles available in Rising Storm: what weapons, how much ammunition, what grenades, etc..

An example would be: (Don't rip me apart on this, it's why I'm looking for help )

Allied Rifleman - 1942-1943
Primary: M1 Garand, 1+8 mags
Secondary: M1911, 1+2 mags
2x Frag Grenade



We know there are people out there in the community who are very passionate about realism and history, and I'm reaching out to see how we can create the most realistic and accurate experience with IOM. Hoping to get some great responses!
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  #2  
Old 05-13-2014, 10:56 PM
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FourKillMaster FourKillMaster is offline
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Alrighty my two cents for the Type 100 is to limit it to only "One" Assault class and the Commander. Only 24000 were ever produced and most were made late war. Also split the existing type 100 into it's separate variants. The Teir 1 was the Type 100 1944 and was mass produced late war. The Teir 2 and 3 was the 1940 variants and fazed out due to its increased jamming and reliability issues.
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Old 05-14-2014, 01:05 PM
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Give everyone at least 4 magazines for their pistols. (In RO2 too)
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  #4  
Old 05-14-2014, 01:25 PM
Kenobi Kenobi is offline
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Take the flamethrower out of defensive roles for the Americans.
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Old 05-14-2014, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenobi View Post
Take the flamethrower out of defensive roles for the Americans.
yep or maybe limit the number of it,on US defense maps to only one?!

also RS-flamethrower operator-make the Dragon dude move slower and make the weapon louder.
and how about a small split second delay when you fire the weapon-to prevent tap firing?!(so that you have a chance,to kill the flamethrower guy before he can hipfire you,from 15m...)

and maybe limit the number of it,on US defense maps to only one?!
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Old 05-14-2014, 04:48 PM
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just give type100 flamethower to japs lol
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  #7  
Old 05-14-2014, 05:03 PM
VietViking VietViking is offline
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Originally Posted by aaz777 View Post
just give type100 flamethower to japs lol
Ya but how often was the type 100 on the battlefield compared to the m2? and axis are on defence for most of the maps, and the ones they are attacking wouldn't be realistic to carry a flamethrower
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  #8  
Old 05-14-2014, 05:16 PM
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If possible,rename the M1 Garand to M1 Rifle.Nobody ever referred to it as "M1 Garand".
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  #9  
Old 05-14-2014, 11:27 PM
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Here are the first of a what I hope will be a number of info dumps and suggestions. Sources other than Wikipedia articles are noted. The following all pertain to RS Axis (Imperial Japanese).

Types 91+97 Hand Grenades
The Type 91 is a versatile explosive, able to be used for chucking by hand or launching by grenade launcher or mortar-like projector (e.g. Type 89 grenade discharger). The Type 97 was produced as a replacement for the Type 91 for general usage; it had a shorter fuse (4-5 seconds compared to Type 91's 7-8 seconds), but it could only be handled as a hand grenade.

Based upon that, I would suggest keeping the Type 91 as the grenade for the Light Mortar class while all other roles receive the Type 97. In particular I would like to see the Machine Gunner and Marksman roles receive grenades for use as well (either Type 91 to separate them from those roles that are much more "front-line" than they are or Type 97 to have them adhere to the notion of Type 97 being issued to mostly replace Type 91 for front-line infantry usage).

Ammo Distribution for Rifle-Wielding Roles
The standard-issue ammunition belt had three cartridge boxes: 2 30-round boxes and 1 60-round reserve box. That amounts to 120 rounds (or 24 5-round clips) for those roles (Rifleman, Marksman, Squad Leader, and Commander) that wield the Type 38 or Type 99 rifles. While that sounds like an excessive total to incorporate in-game, that is what I found with my short research.

-Source: http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/cgsc/car...c/number19.pdf (see page 34)
-Source: http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/cgsc/car...c/number27.pdf (see pages 38-40)

Type 14 Availability
Purportedly the Nambu Type 14 was issued to NCOs and available to be purchased by other officers. On that basis it would be odd to see it available to roles other than Squad Leader and Commander (I'd argue for it to be available to Machine Gunner for the sake of game-play balance, but that's me).

That's what I have for now.

EDIT Added link to another source.

Last edited by S.N.A.F.U.; 05-15-2014 at 10:20 PM. Reason: Added link to another source.
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  #10  
Old 05-15-2014, 09:27 AM
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i think type11 mg would be awesome, with this clip system
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  #11  
Old 05-15-2014, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FourKillMaster View Post
Alrighty my two cents for the Type 100 is to limit it to only "One" Assault class and the Commander. Only 24000 were ever produced and most were made late war. Also split the existing type 100 into it's separate variants. The Teir 1 was the Type 100 1944 and was mass produced late war. The Teir 2 and 3 was the 1940 variants and fazed out due to its increased jamming and reliability issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by S.N.A.F.U.
Here are the first of a what I hope will be a number of info dumps and suggestions. Sources other than Wikipedia articles are noted. The following all pertain to RS Axis (Imperial Japanese).

Types 91+97 Hand Grenades
The Type 91 is a versatile explosive, able to be used for chucking by hand or launching by grenade launcher or mortar-like projector (e.g. Type 89 grenade discharger). The Type 97 was produced as a replacement for the Type 91 for general usage; it had a shorter fuse (4-5 seconds compared to Type 91's 7-8 seconds), but it could only be handled as a hand grenade.

Based upon that, I would suggest keeping the Type 91 as the grenade for the Light Mortar class while all other roles receive the Type 97. In particular I would like to see the Machine Gunner and Marksman roles receive grenades for use as well (either Type 91 to separate them from those roles that are much more "front-line" than they are or Type 97 to have them adhere to the notion of Type 97 being issued to mostly replace Type 91 for front-line infantry usage).

Ammo Distribution for Rifle-Wielding Roles
The standard-issue ammunition belt had three cartridge boxes: 2 30-round boxes and 1 60-round reserve box. That amounts to 120 rounds (or 24 5-round clips) for those roles (Rifleman, Marksman, Squad Leader, and Commander) that wield the Type 38 or Type 99 rifles. While that sounds like an excessive total to incorporate in-game, that is what I found with my short research.

-Source: http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/cgsc/car...c/number19.pdf (see page 34)

Type 14 Availability
Purportedly the Nambu Type 14 was issued to NCOs and available to be purchased by other officers. On that basis it would be odd to see it available to roles other than Squad Leader and Commander (I'd argue for it to be available to Machine Gunner for the sake of game-play balance, but that's me).

That's what I have for now.
Excellent. This is the kind of stuff I'm looking for guys!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CptFoley101
If possible,rename the M1 Garand to M1 Rifle.Nobody ever referred to it as "M1 Garand".
Interesting.. Any reason why they never called it the Garand? Is that something that only came out of modern Video Games or something?

Last edited by Panzer Jager '43; 05-15-2014 at 08:08 PM.
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  #12  
Old 05-15-2014, 09:32 PM
Bane5 Bane5 is offline
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Something that could be done in the future is stuff with the type 99 AT charge,
http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/...6107FA5A61FA8/

This bundle of explosives is available only on IWO Jima at supply dumps but it could be built into a Japanese Sapper class which could be the opposite of the US engineer class.

The type 99 AT charge could be planted as a booby trap (not supported yet in-game). Here are pictures of it:

Pic1
Pic2

In-game it could be planted in the ground in the hopes that someone will step on it--with a bigger boom.

It was used for a wide variety of things from demolitions to antipersonnel mines to AT uses--very flexible. VS heavier tanks, multiple type 99 charges would be attached together (magnets attracting each other) to pierce more armour (1 at charge was reported to pierce 22mm of armour, 2 charges attached together could pierce 30mm of armour).

A sapper class could have 2 AT charges. He can throw them individually or plant them in the ground. Additionally he could press "6" to combine both of his AT charges together by attaching the magnets side by side and chuck it for a bigger boom. Currently in-game the at charge has a smaller explosion radius than a satchel. The combined AT charge could have a slightly larger radius than a satchel.

-----

if you ever support Realism progression, perhaps:
lvl 0 - AT charge
lvl 25 - unlock ability to plant as a mine
lvl 50 - can attach 2 AT charges together

Last edited by Bane5; 05-15-2014 at 10:18 PM.
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  #13  
Old 05-16-2014, 03:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaz777 View Post
i think type11 mg would be awesome, with this clip system
It would be an interesting piece that would bring further variety to the Imperials' already unique LMG selection.

Footage of Type 11 in action:


From the looks of it the Type 11 could fire single shots about as easily as the Type 96 does in-game and could fire up to five-round bursts. I could also see loading the Type 11 working exactly like single-round loading of bolt-action sniper rifles: the player could interrupt reloading at any time to resume firing with what rounds have been loaded. Instead of single-round loading though, the MG would be loading five-round clips for a maximum of six clips.

On a related note:

6.5x50mmSR Genso: a Variant Round
In my reading of the Type 11, it was initially designed to chamber the 6.5x50mmSR cartridge which is the same round used by the Type 38 rifle; the intent was for riflemen to be able to readily resupply their machine gunners. After observing that the pressure produced by standard 6.5x50mmSR over time led to wear and breakage in Type 11s, authorities decided to reduce the amount of charge set into the ammunition to be used by Type 11s. This new ammo was identified by the letter "G" stamped onto packaging; it stood for genso which is Japanese for "reduced". While producing less force and stopping power, these rounds also produced little to no muzzle flash and smoke when fired. This genso ammunition was purportedly issued also to soldiers wielding Type 96 LMGs and Type 97 sniper rifles.

My point being: IOM could simulate usage of this genso ammunition by reducing (or removing entirely) muzzle flash produced by the Type 96 LMG and Type 97 sniper rifle (as well as the Type 11, if it is truly pursued for inclusion). This would add another quality to these weapons to set them apart from their alternate choices: the Type 99 LMG and Type 99 sniper rifle respectively. As I see it the main differences for these weapons would be as follows:

Type 99 (LMG and sniper rifle)
- more powerful ammunition

Type 96 LMG and Type 97 sniper rifle
- capable of greater accuracy and possessing significantly lesser (or no) visible signature while firing

Side note: the horn-shaped flash suppressor on the Type 99 LMG was intended to reduce visible signature just as genso ammunition did for the Type 96. That's just another point for consideration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bane5 View Post
...could be built into a Japanese Sapper class which could be the opposite of the US engineer class.
Not to steal your thunder, but there is an Engineer class for RS Axis already in-game. Unless mistaken, I think this role has only appeared (officially) in Campaign mode to provide RS Axis that personnel as needed (e.g. Axis attacking on Betio receive 1 or 2 Engineers for Objectives C-E.).

So besides being a tank-buster, what you're suggesting is that the Type 99 charge function as a super-strong booby trap? That application is certainly plausible.
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Old 05-16-2014, 03:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzer Jager '43 View Post
Interesting.. Any reason why they never called it the Garand? Is that something that only came out of modern Video Games or something?
My guess is because John Garand was canadian(lol).The ordnance listing never had "Garand" in it aswell.
http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=35527&page=1

http://www.ww2lhawebpages.com/THEFIR...Y_M1RIFLE.html

http://www.survivalebooks.com/m1-garand-rifle.html
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Old 05-16-2014, 05:39 AM
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On the training movie from 1943 is called only as M1 Rifle
Rifle Marksmanship With The M1 Rifle - Part 1 - YouTube

If you are talking about 6,5 mm Genso ammunition perhaps the tracer rounds for Type 96 LMG should be removed or less visible?
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Old 05-20-2014, 11:04 PM
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The matter of rifle nomenclature may have been a result of standardizing differentiation among common American weaponry. As in: US forces may have settled upon "M1 Rifle" so as to separate it from "M1 Carbine" and avoid any conflation of the two. I have not done any research on this; the above is merely conjecture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by morticore View Post
If you are talking about 6,5 mm Genso ammunition perhaps the tracer rounds for Type 96 LMG should be removed or less visible?
I overlooked that. This could be another difference between the Type 96 and Type 99 LMGs. The Type 99 LMG could retain the distinct blue tracers with its more powerful round while the Type 96 could possess a lesser (or nonexistent) visible signature with its weaker round.

On another note:

Tweaking Flamethrower and Flamethrower Operator Mechanics and Qualities

What follows are some suggestions for setting the flamethrower and the FO role as a whole into a niche more reflective of its real-life counterpart. Hopefully they are intelligible and worthy of consideration.

Movement Speed
Currently the FO can move as quickly as the Rifleman, Sniper/Scout-Sniper, Squad Leader, and Commander; he is as able as all of them at rushing various positions but carries much greater firepower than any of them. This strikes me as being quite ridiculous considering his gear: he's carrying almost 70 pounds (about 31 kg) of fuel, gasoline and nitrogen-filled tanks, hose, and gun assembly. Hoisting this much gear that produces instant-kill results should be more of a burden. The FO should have a movement speed equal to (or maybe slightly less than) the Machine Gunner (MG hereafter). Not being able to move as far or as quickly as almost everyone else on the team would hopefully require the FO to consider his movements more carefully (maybe even foster some coordination from others Allies players [coordination in a team-based game!?!?] to ensure his safety). This would make the FO more vulnerable outside of his effective range and maybe make his usage all the more rewarding when properly played.

Bracing for Aim
Currently the FO can simply left-click his/her mouse at any time and start burning everyone in reach, rendering the FO the most effective hip-fire role in the game. The FO is not firing bullets, he's channeling highly-pressurized fuel. Various accounts can be read about careless wielders of flamethrowers during WWII who killed their selves and others nearby when not properly handling their weapon. My suggestion here is manifold.

Hip-firing should entail a considerable amount of recoil such as the flamethrower in Killing Floor does (for those of you who play that, you know exactly what I'm getting at). Additionally hip-firing for so many continuous seconds (three? four?) could result in automatic self-immolation for the FO to discourage rampant hip-firing (not too sure about this aspect, just throwing it out there). With such recoil and risks/disadvantages in place, the FO in-game would do well to have to aim (default right-click on mouse) their gun assemblies before firing, with there possibly being a slight delay to aim-down-sights (and no zoom multiplier applied to his view when he aims maybe): not necessarily as long as it takes MGs to deploy their bipods but certainly longer than it takes a Rifleman to shoulder his weapon. Aiming their gun assembly would enable more stable and accurate firing but would considerably inhibit their maneuverability. Offhand I would say that the aimed firing would handle much like (or exactly like) aimed firing does now. This would hopefully encourage FOs to be more methodical in their assaults while still being just as deadly when in the right position.

The following source (http://www.paperlessarchives.com/Fre...ameThrower.pdf) is a rather interesting read of flamethrower usage during WWII. I include it to support, in general terms, my above points.

Lastly I want to follow up on Bane5's suggestion about booby-trap functionality for the Type 99 AT mine. Here's a manual about Japanese booby traps that includes the Type 99 mine being deployed in just such a manner (see page 12 for relevant images): http://www.scribd.com/doc/33993715/T...ing-Kit-Manual.

Last edited by S.N.A.F.U.; 05-20-2014 at 11:05 PM.
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  #17  
Old 05-21-2014, 12:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S.N.A.F.U. View Post
Lastly I want to follow up on Bane5's suggestion about booby-trap functionality for the Type 99 AT mine. Here's a manual about Japanese booby traps that includes the Type 99 mine being deployed in just such a manner (see page 12 for relevant images): http://www.scribd.com/doc/33993715/T...ing-Kit-Manual.
I should also cite my penetration values for 1 AT charge and 2 combined AT charges:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/58251769/J...Anti-Tank-Mine

Brief mention on the 1st page^

It also describes some other useful characteristsics: like how much explosive ordance is in each individual charge/mine (1.3 lbs), how long is the fuse timer after being lit and thrown (9.5 to 10.5 seconds), how many a soldier would likely carry (2 since they were shipped that way), how much each AT charge fully weighed (2.5 lbs), etc--all useful things for tweaking the in-game stats.

for a comparison in explosive count, a regular hand grenade like the US M67 fragmentation grenade had 6.5 oz of explosives.

In-game the type 99 at charge could serve as grenade with a big blast with minor shrapnel, 2 AT charges combined could be somewhat similar to a satchel in RO2.

-----

Another thing to note--should you ever decide to include it--is that the proper weapon for the proposed Japanese engineer/sapper class would be the type 38 carbine with a total weapon length of 966 millimeters compared to 1,280 millimeters for the type 38 rifle. Also note that the type 38 carbine could not attach a bayonet. Outside of use for engineers, specialists and calvary, the carbine was issued to non-front-line troops. I wouldn't recommend allowing any other class--maybe machine gunners (instead of pistols)--to have access.

The type 44 carbine (calvary rifle) with its folding needle bayonet would be the carbine to give some other class access to. Its nowhere near as common as the type type 38 carbine since the type 44 only had 92,000 produced--squad leader/commander/light mortarman perhaps.

Last edited by Bane5; 05-21-2014 at 01:53 AM.
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