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Is the Barrett M99 balanced?It is in the modding area

Is the Barrett M99 balanced?It is in the modding area

  • Yes,nicely done.

    Votes: 22 50.0%
  • No,1 shot FP is too powerful.

    Votes: 22 50.0%

  • Total voters
    44
For a skilled player there's nothing you could do that would balance it if it was allowed to kill with one shot.

Killing FP with single shot it bad thing. There no teamwork needed to bring down FP that way.

So 1 shot fp is too powerful for HoE.

I echo these responses. There's a reason that not even the LAW kills an FP in one hit!


This. Exactly this.

Can't a demo man easily solo a fleshpound with a pipebomb and a few m32 rounds? Heck, take out the pipebomb and he still can solo the fp just fine (I know several shots>one shot, bear with me).

How is a pile of pipebombs not op (well, no one yet has said they are), but a one shot sniper rifle is?

Because Pipe Bombs cost $200 a piece and the M32 takes roughly 2 seconds per round to reload. Using pipes drains your funds fast and spamming all your M32 shots leaves you nearly empty for a long period of time. And, of course, there's the issue that in close quarters, Grenades and Pipes can hurt or kill you if something goes wrong (Crawler leaps from a vent and detonates the nades you just fired, Bloat spawns around a corner and detonates a pipe too soon, ect).

Not to mention that the M32 is a mid-range weapon. You're talking about a SNIPER RIFLE. Killing an FP miles before it can even get close. And if it DID get close, you'd still be able to 1-shot it at near point-blank with the proper skill, with zero risk of nuking yourself or getting hit by the FP. It would be gamebreaking. There's a reason no weapon in the game is currently able to do it.



I'm sorry guys. I really like the gun itself. It's a freaking sweet gun. But the way you're trying to set it up, it's a balance nightmare. Making it gamebreakingly powerful against FPs/Scrakes, but gimping it's ammo and reload so it's useless the other 99% of the time doesn't make for a fun weapon. And making it any more effective against everything else would make it gamebreaking.

Long story short, it's very hard to have a "Sniper" weapon without intruding on the Crossbow's territory right now. And a "1-shot Wonder" anti-FP gun isn't the way to do it. FPs are one of the only things keeping skilled teams from being able to perma-camp entire maps and having the ability to 1-shot them removes even that obstacle.

I'm behind this gun 100%...but not the way you're thinking of using it. I dunno HOW you'd really use it otherwise, but this isn't the way.
 
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+ Rep for nanostrike, well thought out post. But I have some concerns:

Because Pipe Bombs cost $200 a piece and the M32 takes roughly 2 seconds per round to reload. Using pipes drains your funds fast and spamming all your M32 shots leaves you nearly empty for a long period of time. And, of course, there's the issue that in close quarters, Grenades and Pipes can hurt or kill you if something goes wrong (Crawler leaps from a vent and detonates the nades you just fired, Bloat spawns around a corner and detonates a pipe too soon, ect).

The sniper rifle ammo would be expensive as well. The sniper rifle would be slow to re-load leaving you vulnerable as well. Close range is an issue for demo men because they lack any sort of viable close range defense, it would be the same for a ss carrying this rifle because its too heavy for another weapon. Sure they would have a pistol, but how effective is that against a medium sized group of mixed zeds? Both of these classes would need team support. I feel they would be balanced the same.

Not to mention that the M32 is a mid-range weapon. You're talking about a SNIPER RIFLE. Killing an FP miles before it can even get close. And if it DID get close, you'd still be able to 1-shot it at near point-blank with the proper skill, with zero risk of nuking yourself or getting hit by the FP. It would be gamebreaking. There's a reason no weapon in the game is currently able to do it.

There are very few maps that would provide the miles of space you speak of to headshot a fleshpound with the rifle. Even on the maps that have ample space (mountain pass) would a crossbow could be considered op because you can kill a fleshpound before it comes within earshot? Hell, even an LAR can finish a fleshpound on that stretch of road in mountain pass with six shots (assuming level 6 ss on a 6 man hoe with decent aim). And with proper skill these weapons can finish the job close in as well. Whats the difference?



I'm sorry guys. I really like the gun itself. It's a freaking sweet gun. But the way you're trying to set it up, it's a balance nightmare. Making it gamebreakingly powerful against FPs/Scrakes, but gimping it's ammo and reload so it's useless the other 99% of the time doesn't make for a fun weapon. And making it any more effective against everything else would make it gamebreaking.

Thats what balance is. Strong in one area, weak in another.

I don't really care if this gun is implemented or not. I don't play sharpshooter. I just like to debate with people that think certain things could break the game without thinking critically about how they could be balanced.

Take none of this personally, its all for debates sake. My apologies if I came off as rude or stuck up :D
 
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So now when we have cleared out the decap bonus i restate my stats for the M99:

Perk - Sharpshooter
Cost - 4000 (gets the discount = 1200 cost at level 6)
Ammo cost - 15-20 per bullet
Ammo amount - 25
Starting amount of ammo when purchased - 10

Weight - 13 or 14 (13 allows Machete/Pipebombs for non-Support, but also, for the Support, any of the Shotgun/AA12/HuntingShotty with it. 14 allows no extra equipment for non-Support, and only max the standard Shotgun along with the M99 for Support)

Damage - 1600
Headshotmultiplier - 1.1 (To not make it too strong non-perked + not too strong against the Patriarch)


40% resistance requires the Sharpie to headshot TWICE for a kill on 6man HoE, and makes non Sharpies only decap with 3 shots, 4th shot on the decapped body kills it.
 
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I echo these responses. There's a reason that not even the LAW kills an FP in one hit!




Because Pipe Bombs cost $200 a piece and the M32 takes roughly 2 seconds per round to reload. Using pipes drains your funds fast and spamming all your M32 shots leaves you nearly empty for a long period of time. And, of course, there's the issue that in close quarters, Grenades and Pipes can hurt or kill you if something goes wrong (Crawler leaps from a vent and detonates the nades you just fired, Bloat spawns around a corner and detonates a pipe too soon, ect).

Not to mention that the M32 is a mid-range weapon. You're talking about a SNIPER RIFLE. Killing an FP miles before it can even get close. And if it DID get close, you'd still be able to 1-shot it at near point-blank with the proper skill, with zero risk of nuking yourself or getting hit by the FP. It would be gamebreaking. There's a reason no weapon in the game is currently able to do it.



I'm sorry guys. I really like the gun itself. It's a freaking sweet gun. But the way you're trying to set it up, it's a balance nightmare. Making it gamebreakingly powerful against FPs/Scrakes, but gimping it's ammo and reload so it's useless the other 99% of the time doesn't make for a fun weapon. And making it any more effective against everything else would make it gamebreaking.

Long story short, it's very hard to have a "Sniper" weapon without intruding on the Crossbow's territory right now. And a "1-shot Wonder" anti-FP gun isn't the way to do it. FPs are one of the only things keeping skilled teams from being able to perma-camp entire maps and having the ability to 1-shot them removes even that obstacle.

I'm behind this gun 100%...but not the way you're thinking of using it. I dunno HOW you'd really use it otherwise, but this isn't the way.


That gun will be useless with only 25 shots if you cant one-shot fp. 6-8 pound will spawn at wave 10. Any one with this gun will be supposed to KILL ALL FPS AND SCRAKES all by themself. So even if the fp is raged, teamates will still help you to clear trash. And you know what? YOU WILL MISS sooner or later.

If you are perfect, 8 fp take away 16 shots from you. And scrakes will spawn like 10+ on wave 10. You simplay dont have enough ammo EVEN YOU ARE PERFECT.

But everyone know, no one is perfect. So it is not a good idea to make this gun required any more than one-shot to kill. 25 shots already make you cannot miss. If you get lucky and 100% hiting the head, you end the wave with only a seveal shots left. Also, if you miss, you WILL RAGE scrakes and fleshpounds and you need A LOT OF time to reload. Not to mention you are doomed if your teamates is not able o support you because all you have is this gun, 9mm and a knife (which need a alt-fire to decap a single clot).
 
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I like it, but have an idea that I think would improve it...
What if you remove the penetration from it? IMO, that was the real issue that made the xbow overpowered, not the fact it could 1-shot fleshpounds.
You could kill any number of zeds in a straight line, you didn't need your teammates to clear out the trash in front of the scrakes or fleshpounds to get a clear shot, and it was light enough to carry the handcannon, so you were effective at killing everything. You didn't need any teamwork to kill anything before.
Remove the penetration and you rely on your team more to clear the majority of the trash and give you a clear shot at scrakes & fleshpounds, so it's still a team effort in that sense.
You could explain the lack of penetration by using HE rounds (purely cosmetic ofc), or maybe hollow points but I have no idea how much that would effect the penetration of a .50 sniper rifle so I don't know how realistic that would be.
 
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+ Rep for nanostrike, well thought out post. But I have some concerns:

The sniper rifle ammo would be expensive as well. The sniper rifle would be slow to re-load leaving you vulnerable as well. Close range is an issue for demo men because they lack any sort of viable close range defense, it would be the same for a ss carrying this rifle because its too heavy for another weapon. Sure they would have a pistol, but how effective is that against a medium sized group of mixed zeds? Both of these classes would need team support. I feel they would be balanced the same.

There are very few maps that would provide the miles of space you speak of to headshot a fleshpound with the rifle. Even on the maps that have ample space (mountain pass) would a crossbow could be considered op because you can kill a fleshpound before it comes within earshot? Hell, even an LAR can finish a fleshpound on that stretch of road in mountain pass with six shots (assuming level 6 ss on a 6 man hoe with decent aim). And with proper skill these weapons can finish the job close in as well. Whats the difference?

Being able to 1-shot something at close range without hurting yourself...and still take it out at long range without making clouds of smoke or whatnot is a bit overboard.

It's basically a non-AoE, smoke-free LAW. The M99 is a sweet gun and deserves to be something more.


Thats what balance is. Strong in one area, weak in another.

I don't really care if this gun is implemented or not. I don't play sharpshooter. I just like to debate with people that think certain things could break the game without thinking critically about how they could be balanced.

Take none of this personally, its all for debates sake. My apologies if I came off as rude or stuck up :D

I'm not saying it couldn't be balanced. I'm saying that to be balanced, it might end up not being fun. And for me, fun is the reason why I'd wanna use a weapon.
 
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Thats what balance is. Strong in one area, weak in another.

I don't really care if this gun is implemented or not. I don't play sharpshooter. I just like to debate with people that think certain things could break the game without thinking critically about how they could be balanced.

i don't think there's a chance it will officially implemented in the game....is there?
I think it's fine as a novelty strong weapon that plp who choose to can have fun with, let it one-shot FPs no harm done.
The whole crossbow nerf regarding this was I presume not just to make the game more challenging, but to make FPs and Scrakes the whole team's concern - not just an interuption to be quickly dealt with by 1 guy.

I can't see how you you would want a weapon as over the top as the barrett, but not have it this powerful, however it wouldn't be right to then impose this kind of gameplay back on the community, after fixing it and imo improving the game.
 
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Killing FP with single shot it bad thing. There no teamwork needed to bring down FP that way.

Maybe 1 shot kill till suicidal, but it could just hurt a lot for HoE. Say 5 shots of AA12 would be enough to finish him.

So 1 shot fp is too powerful for HoE.

I agree with this. It's arguable that a 1-shot FP-killer couldn't be balanced, but it would assuredly be detrimental to gameplay and enjoyment. First you have a Sharpshooter that would wait around 90% the time (or simply twirl his 9mm around) until the FP shows up. Then, instead of the "Oh S**t!" tension-filled moment it's suppose to be, the team just waits for the SS to disintegrate the FP's face with the BFG he's carrying. Overall, reduces game tension and makes FP's more "routine", which they should never be.



Can't a demo man easily solo a fleshpound with a pipebomb and a few m32 rounds? Heck, take out the pipebomb and he still can solo the fp just fine (I know several shots>one shot, bear with me).

How is a pile of pipebombs not op (well, no one yet has said they are), but a one shot sniper rifle is?

Demo:

1. Set pipe, hoping the FP doesn't walk over it too soon, bloat doesn't come out of nowhere, gorefast doesn't slice you as you're setting it, Siren doesn't break the pipe, Husk doesn't shoot you while you're near the pipe, FP doesn't change direction to another player not between the pipe and FP, and a myriad other potential problems. The pipe also costs a hefty sum on it's own.

2. Ready your (hopefully at least half-loaded) M32, which only carries 38 shots, not too much more then our potential Sharpshooter weapon. Train the launcher on the FP so you may shoot at just the correct moment (when the FP steps on your pipe bomb), ignoring any other potential threat to you. Also note that if something does sneak up on you, you have out a weapon that is impossible to use at close range, unlike a rifle that still does full damage if you can noscope.

3. Fire multiple shots as the FP rages from the pipe hit. Hopefully you're actually hitting the FP, as you can't tell past the first hit through the smoke. Also hope that the FP isn't close enough to hurt you through explosive damage.

4. Go into a lengthy reload animation as you load each grenade individually into it's respective chamber, taking a maximum of nearly 20 seconds for all 6.




M99:

1. Scope. Wait for any smoke, flame, or other deterrent to aiming dissipates. Hope that nothing sneaks up on you.

2. Pull trigger at correct time, hope that hitboxes are current/accurate/not overlapping/etc.

3. Go into a lengthy reload animation, taking a max of what I assume to be 6-8 seconds to load another round in the chamber.


The M99 surely wouldn't make things guaranteed, and I might be exaggerating a little on both accounts, but it seems a lot easier.
 
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Just a few notes:

At the moment these are the stats i have made for it:

1600 damage and a 1.1 headshot multiplier and it should have a penetration equal or better to the Crossbow.

This means:
* Wether you are a Sharpshooter or not, this kills any Clot, Stalker, Crawler, Siren, Gorefast or Husk with one shot to the body, regardless of difficulty and number of players. They ofc also die on a headshot :p
* Wether you are a Sharpshooter or not, the Bloat dies in 2 bodyshots on 6-man HoE.
* Scrakes (6man HoE) takes 4 body shots to kill (wether sharpshooter or not). It takes 1 headshot for a level 6 Sharpshooter, and it takes 2 headshots to kill a Scrake as a non-Sharpshooter (meaning it's actually quite nice for the Support specialist, which was the initial perk Jack Carver wanted the rifle to belong to)

Fleshpounds haveto take these amount of rounds with the different resistances (This resistance is both a body and headshot resistance):

25%
: (6-man HoE) 1-headshot by lvl 6 Sharpshooter, 3-headshots by non-Sharpshooter, 5 bodyshots regardless of perk

30%
: (6-man HoE) 1-headshot by lvl 6 Sharpshooter, 3-headshots by non-Sharpshooter TO DECAP, 6 bodyshots regardless of perk

35%:
(6-man HoE) 2-headshot (almost just 1) by lvl 6 Sharpshooter, 3-headshots by non-Sharpshooter TO DECAP, 6 bodyshots regardless of perk

40%:
(6-man HoE) 2-headshot by lvl 6 Sharpshooter, 3-headshots by non-Sharpshooter TO DECAP, 7 (almost just 6) bodyshots regardless of perk

45%: (6-man HoE) 2-headshot by lvl 6 Sharpshooter, 3-headshots by non-Sharpshooter TO DECAP (barely a decap), 7 bodyshots regardless of perk
(6-man Suicidal) 2-headshot (almost just 1) by lvl 6 Sharpshooter, 3-headshots by non-Sharpshooter TO DECAP, 6 bodyshots regardless of perk

50%: (6-man HoE) 2-headshot by lvl 6 Sharpshooter, 4-headshots by non-Sharpshooter TO DECAP (barely a decap), 8 bodyshots regardless of perk
(6-man Suicidal) 2-headshot by lvl 6 Sharpshooter, 3-headshots by non-Sharpshooter TO DECAP (barely a decap), 7 bodyshots regardless of perk

(More % than that and it starts to get very weak)

30%, 40% and 50% are the 3 real percentages the Fleshpounds should have against the M99.
The Fleshie could have 30% resistance on Beginner, Normal and Hard and 50% on Hell on Earth. Suicidal could have 50% too i guess.

Other stuff that could be done with the rifle to not make it too useless for the Sharpshooter:

* Just like you get discount on Xbow bolts, you could get a discount on M99 ammo. At level 6 you could get a 30% reduction (taking the cost of each bullet from 25 to 17,5).
* You could get an increased amount of ammo (This imo makes the Suicidal Fleshie require a 45% or 50% damage resistance to not overpower the Sharpshooter). Non-perked it could be 20 or so shots, and then for every Sharpie level (from 1-6) you get 1 or 2 more shots, leaving you at 30 shots max at level 6.
 
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The Fleshie could have 30% resistance on Beginner, Normal and Hard and 50% on Hell on Earth. Suicidal could have 50% too i guess.

Other stuff that could be done with the rifle to not make it too useless for the Sharpshooter:

* Just like you get discount on Xbow bolts, you could get a discount on M99 ammo. At level 6 you could get a 30% reduction (taking the cost of each bullet from 25 to 17,5).
* You could get an increased amount of ammo (This imo makes the Suicidal Fleshie require a 45% damage resistance to not overpower the Sharpshooter). Non-perked it could be 20 or so shots, and then for every Sharpie level (from 1-6) you get 1 or 2 more shots, leaving you at 30 shots max at level 6.

Just like I said... if you only have 25 shots and not able to one-shot fleshpounds, you dont have enough ammo on wave 10 6-man HoE EVEN YOU ARE PERFECT.
 
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In all likelyhood...almost zero chance.
I don't give a hoot in hell about this wise *** post, as you seem to be a wall :p!!
I just want it to get whitelisted and seriously I don't see a reason why it should not get whitelisted. If 2 shot fp kills are too overpowerd, then I seriously can't help you guys! If making weapons then always turns out to be annoying for some of you folks and you never are ok with anything then we also can stop making them for the comunity!
If you would read some of my and Azes posts you should, with some common sense, see that this weapon is not really overpowerd or anything and if there's something OP about it... well then we'll change that
And how can you even say that it has a 0% chance of getting implemented lol...... In fact I just want it to get whitelisted and that's it but you just seem to be ignorant. Such useless posts just have a 0% chance of helping!
Heck some of you even try are afraid of anything new or that the crossbow would get replaced or such crap. The M99 in fact is stronger then the crossbow but you only can carry a machete with it.... And this 1 shot fp kill thing... You really have to READ!! We already discussed this many times and by now most of you should know that it's not going to happen.

Sorry but this had to be!! You folks just start crying and dieing about something that hasn't even been released AND it was already stated that 1 shot FP Kills ARE NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. It's like talking to a wall and heck I hate talking to walls!!
You should all just calm down and wait till it's released before hell breakes loose......

You can all get some info here

and then please update this or lock this thread and wait till it's realeased or discuss it in its own thread, which gets updated. Thanks
As the topic says the Barrett M99 AMR is a SS weapon ,which (of course with the LV6SS perk) takes out the FP with 1 headshot on 6 men HOE.
Unbalanced is it?But it weighs at least 13kg,single action,slow scoping/unscoping,and with a maximum ammo capacity of 25.(each round costs at least 10 pounds).It is a L.A.W for SS.
The price for the AMR is basically 4000,for a LV6SS the price is 1200


As this poll really is out of date and makes no sense!
1.) 1 shot FP kills are too overpowerd?.. I'd say Yes
2.) It' Balanced... Well I'd say yes with the current changes
Result: This poll is unfortunately pointless.

The FP should be a serious enemy so 1 shot FP kills just are out of question! That would just be gamebreaking!
@Aze

I think the FP should die with 2 headshots (50% resistence), however 1 shot husk kills are a bit too easy imo. It would be great if the husk would survive 1 shot to the body. Otherwise the weapon would have too much damage imo.
Thanks for your help
 
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2374302.jpg


The M14/SCAR shoot 7.62x51mm NATO.

The M99 shoots 12.7x99mm NATO (.50BMG)

So what's this talk about penetration?
 
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What that talk about realism?
I am not good at physics, but penetration would do with bullet mass, speed and shape.
Bolt is heavier than .50cal, however .50cal got much higher velocity and better shape for penetration and smaller. So if we talk about realism here, .50cal should be able to penetrate at least 2 times more zeds than crossbow.

However I am not gonna jump gun here. I'd rather actually test it 1st, before making any feedback on it.
 
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@Aze

I think the FP should die with 2 headshots (50% resistence), however 1 shot husk kills are a bit too easy imo. It would be great if the husk would survive 1 shot to the body. Otherwise the weapon would have too much damage imo.
Thanks for your help

Alright, i will get busy with the numbers :)
On which diffculty and number of players should the Husk NOT be oneshotted to the body? 4 to 6-man HoE obviously, but what about 5/6-man Survival?

These are the health values of the Husk:
5-man Husk Survival = 1302
6-man Husk Survival = 1395
4-man Husk HoE = 1365
5-man Husk HoE = 1470
6-man Husk HoE = 1575

I guess 1250 M99 base damage would be good then? (That will be a 2bodyshot-kill for Bloats and Husks on the higher difficulties) I will run some numbers with that and change the Headshot-multiplier and Fleshpound resistance a little to keep the values as good as i can. And the Fleshpound should only get 2-headshot on 4/5/6-man Survival/HoE by a level 6 Sharpshooter right?

I'll get right to it :) (I'm sick at home so it's not like i don't have time to do it ^^)
 
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