Oh my god, why the map changes?

[CocaineInMyBrain]

Originally Posted by hoodedmanx

No, lets make it realistic to the max! As soon as the barges get to the beach allied team can get mowed down as soon as they spawn and the survivors get a pelting of artillery, machine gun fire, and grenades. All of this is happening as they try and run at a wall of pillboxes filled with people trying to shoot you while you are trying to accomplish this maneuver.

I don't believe you've ever played Darkest Hour have you...

[mattlach]

Originally Posted by Cwivey

Well, a single German machine gunner lying down, outside the building in D, next to the low wall on the left of the building's doorway can cover that trench exit and be impossible to shoot from any other angle (He can be flanked / shot by the T34). I've yet to see one actually do this yet however.

That's a pretty good spot, but completely useless if a T34 drives into D, which seems to be the first thing tankers who now what they are doing on Comissaars.

I guess my feeling is, we have tools to overcome challenging spots in maps. Tanks and smoke grenades being the biggest. We shouldn't need these handsouts. they just disincentivise teamwork even more, and contribute to making it a less interesting game.

IMHO, every single map ought to have a spot you just can't get past without teamwork.

The game really needs to de-emphasize the individual, and re-emphasize the team.

[mattlach]

Originally Posted by Mekhazzio

Well, for one, the whole point of putting cover on the map is so they don't have to casually stroll up without cover, and for another, then you might have the first beach assault map ever to be seen in a multiplayer game that's actually worth playing.

The beach assault on Darkest Hour was very challenging, but it made it that much more rewarding.

I say to hell with balance. War isn't balanced. This is a war game. Things are never going to be even, and that's the way it should be.

[mattlach]

Originally Posted by TheRealGunther

After testing the new changes extensively I do find the attackers have a much easier time on a few maps.From what I have seen its more the defenders tactics than map changes.Before only a few guys could defend a capzone now it takes a team effort to stay in and defend the zones.

If you need a full team to defend each cap zone, you are handing the advantage to the attackers every time. The attackers can choose which cap zone to attack and send their entire strength there.

Defenders - however - need to defend all ca zones, as they don't know which area the enemy is going to attack in, and they can't leave zones empty.

defenders always have an extreme advantage. They can set up defenses, make sure they create strangle points where attackers can't get in without being open and shot at, and this is what they do in real conflicts.

On the other hand they need to be more spread out once defending.

Messing with this in order to appeal to some lame console-style gamers complaints because he can't maintain a good K/D ratio is insane, and just makes the game less interesting.

[Gaizokubanou]

Originally Posted by mattlach

I say to hell with balance. War isn't balanced. This is a war game. Things are never going to be even, and that's the way it should be.

War isn't a game/hobby either. It's something that's at best endured.

[TheRealGunther]

Originally Posted by mattlach

If you need a full team to defend each cap zone, you are handing the advantage to the attackers every time. The attackers can choose which cap zone to attack and send their entire strength there.

Defenders - however - need to defend all ca zones, as they don't know which area the enemy is going to attack in, and they can't leave zones empty.

defenders always have an extreme advantage. They can set up defenses, make sure they create strangle points where attackers can't get in without being open and shot at, and this is what they do in real conflicts.

On the other hand they need to be more spread out once defending.

Messing with this in order to appeal to some lame console-style gamers complaints because he can't maintain a good K/D ratio is insane, and just makes the game less interesting.

I agree fully I have always said the defenders should be the one that have an advantage.The only map I noticed a big change in was Commissars making it alot easier for the attackers.While I am not completely happy with the changes to this map.I still think this can be defended by a coordinated effort from the defending Germans.

I do not think it would require the whole team my point was it will just take more than previously.Before only a handful of guys was in each cap while the rest blocked,camped,K/D ratio'ed,etc.People will just have to learn that this will not cut it and teamwork is required for a proper defense.

What bugs me about the whole "lets adjust maps to make it easier" thing is most of the time it was lack of teamwork that made these maps difficult.That's at the heart of a good tactical game difficult objectives that force teamwork in order to accomplish their goals.IMO if the trend continues it will be less and less of a tactical game which for me will be sad.

[MonkeyWithAGun]

Originally Posted by mattlach

One thing is certain.

More 3rd party community maps can't come out soon enough...

I dont think we will be getting some nice big maps until TWI gives us APC's; i dont know when that is.

I've been away a while, did they make any official announcement as to when APC's are coming? I would assume APC's would me much more important than a new set of tanks...

[Six_Ten]

Originally Posted by MonkeyWithAGun

I dont think we will be getting some nice big maps until TWI gives us APC's; i dont know when that is.

We have nice big maps right now --

Ogledow (combined arms)
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.co...ad.php?t=72721

and Kursk (tanks, measures 5km x 5 km)
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.co...ad.php?t=81347