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Fix the PPSh

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#26
Both guns are fine.

The PPSH is easy as heck to control in full auto, and definitely better at hip firing than the MP40 because of the higher RoF. I've gotten into quite a few hip firing battles with the PPSH carrying an MP40, and the PPSH almost always wins, and its the same story if I pick it up; the higher rate of fire really helps when hip firing.

That having been said the MP40 is more accurate, and it should be cause it is in reality as-well. The MP40 is about the most accurate & controllable SMG in full auto made during the second world war, and it was quite loved by the troops. The Allies even used to pick them up for themselves instead of the Tommy gun, since unlike the Tommy it didn't rattle when being swung around and it was more controllable in full auto fire.

Now the Germans did pick up quite a few PPSH's on the eastern front, but this was mostly because of the fact that ammunition was more readily available for the PPSH as compared to the MP40, and the large 71 drum mag proved useful for urban fighting. As a weapon I wouldn't call one better than the other, they both had advantages & disadvantages over each other, and that is depicted in the game as-well.

Tripwire did a good job with these weapons.
 
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#27
mechanicalDR said:
My problem with it currently is that when you barely tap it to try to get a single or short burst off it shoots 3-4 shots. It seems like the first shot never hits on the sights from the recoil preemptively, how does that make sense??
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That seems to be very similar to my experiences with the PPSh.

Even if I line up the sights and aim properly, unless I have the gun jammed up their jackboots I miss more often than not, regardless of whether or not I burst fire or full auto. Ironsights don't seem to do anything for the PPSh, and firing from the hip seems to be far more effective...
 
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#29
Guys, seriously, it's fine. I have no problems hitting anyone with the PPSH, infact I often find myself picking one up since it's a beast indoors.

Just remember, this is a close range weapon, so don't go popping bullets at people 100 m away, chances are you'll just piss them off enough to put a rifle bullet between your eyes!

The MP40 can be used at greater distances more effectively, that is true, and it should be too cause it is in reality, but up close the PPSH is hands down better.

So pick the PPSH if you're gonna be running around inside buildings, and then stay there, don't venture out into the open. The MP40 is a tad more versatile, but even so it will not even come close to being as effective as a rifle out in the open, but it will do better than a PPSH in this area, just as it should.

Each weapon takes some getting used to, none are identical, which is what makes this game so fantastic.

So, get out there and practice soldiers!
 
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#33
Unus Offa said:
Guys, seriously, it's fine. I have no problems hitting anyone with the PPSH, infact I often find myself picking one up since it's a beast indoors.

Just remember, this is a close range weapon, so don't go popping bullets at people 100 m away, chances are you'll just piss them off enough to put a rifle bullet between your eyes!

The MP40 can be used at greater distances more effectively, that is true, and it should be too cause it is in reality, but up close the PPSH is hands down better.

So pick the PPSH if you're gonna be running around inside buildings, and then stay there, don't venture out into the open. The MP40 is a tad more versatile, but even so it will not even come close to being as effective as a rifle out in the open, but it will do better than a PPSH in this area, just as it should.

Each weapon takes some getting used to, none are identical, which is what makes this game so fantastic.

So, get out there and practice soldiers!
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Could not have worded it better myself.
 
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#34
I tried the ppsh today for the first Time and I was surprised at how much recoil it did have, 3 shot bursts firing down from a building, I could see each shot landing 8inches to 1 foot away from each other ( range 30-50 meters ).


I'm all for making the guns as accurate as possible and forcing people to use tactics to win against a weapon instead of nerfing that said gun.

Can anyone comment on whether the recoil of the ppsh decreases with any advanced level? IE is there just bad recoil till level X at which point it levels out?
 
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#35
Unus Offa said:
Guys, seriously, it's fine. I have no problems hitting anyone with the PPSH, infact I often find myself picking one up since it's a beast indoors.

Just remember, this is a close range weapon, so don't go popping bullets at people 100 m away, chances are you'll just piss them off enough to put a rifle bullet between your eyes!

The MP40 can be used at greater distances more effectively, that is true, and it should be too cause it is in reality, but up close the PPSH is hands down better.

So pick the PPSH if you're gonna be running around inside buildings, and then stay there, don't venture out into the open. The MP40 is a tad more versatile, but even so it will not even come close to being as effective as a rifle out in the open, but it will do better than a PPSH in this area, just as it should.

Each weapon takes some getting used to, none are identical, which is what makes this game so fantastic.

So, get out there and practice soldiers!
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Historically, the PPSh had the longer barrel and higher muzzle velocity. I don't know about you, but I think that is a clear sign that it should outrange the MP40.
The PPSh's rate of fire has never seemed to be a factor in close quarters. I'm equally good if not better with the MP40 at close range. They're identical when it comes to indoors, point blank shooting. THe problem is if you then approach a window, the MP40 instantly becomes totally superior, which isn't balanced or realistic.
The higher rate of fire simply is not a good enough advantage at close range. It doesn't matter if you hit a guy 2 or 5 times, he's dead anyway. It doesn't take a genius to tell that the Axis' weapons are causing team stacking at the moment, and this is mainly because TWI nerfed the hell out of the PPSh
 
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#36
Scarf Ace said:
Historically, the PPSh had the longer barrel and higher muzzle velocity. I don't know about you, but I think that is a clear sign that it should outrange the MP40.
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Outrange it ? Maybe by a couple of feet (depends on the BC of bullet as-well), but in terms of accuracy, esp. on full auto, sorry but no, the MP40 is definitely more accurate; and accuracy plays the most important role in determining the effective range of a weapon.

For future referece you should keep in mind that the MP40 is an exceptionally accurate SMG, and probably the most controllable of the war when firing full auto. You should try one out sometime, you'll be amazed.

The PPSh's rate of fire has never seemed to be a factor in close quarters. I'm equally good if not better with the MP40 at close range.
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No, you just think you are. The PPSH shoots way faster, allowing the one holding it to send more bullets flying at the enemy in a shorter space of time than he can, and THAT is what gives the guy holding the PPSH the advantage.

They're identical when it comes to indoors, point blank shooting. THe problem is if you then approach a window, the MP40 instantly becomes totally superior, which isn't balanced or realistic.
The higher rate of fire simply is not a good enough advantage at close range. It doesn't matter if you hit a guy 2 or 5 times, he's dead anyway.
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That is just flat out wrong. I have been using the PPSH a lot ingame, it's one of my favorite weapons, and indoors it is way better than the MP40. So as long as I'm indoors I feel extremely secure wielding the PPSH.

With the MP40 on the other hand I feel most secure if I can keep the engagement ranges at around 25 meters or more. If I'm indoors with an MP40 I get real nervous if I hear a PPSH nearby, and I'll pick one up first chance I get!

It doesn't take a genius to tell that the Axis' weapons are causing team stacking at the moment, and this is mainly because TWI nerfed the hell out of the PPSh
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Having actually fired both guns myself, my answer to that is: No they haven't.
 
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#39
Unus Offa said:
Outrange it ? Maybe by a couple of feet (depends on the BC of bullet as-well), but in terms of accuracy, esp. on full auto, sorry but no, the MP40 is definitely more accurate; and accuracy plays the most important role in determining the effective range of a weapon.
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Every PPSh during the battle of Stalingrad had a fire selector on it. Giving it semi auto would make it better at longer ranges.
TWI decided to force us to grind for that feature, though.
Not to mention that the current recoil values are overkill.
For future referece you should keep in mind that the MP40 is an exceptionally accurate SMG, and probably the most controllable of the war when firing full auto. You should try one out sometime, you'll be amazed.
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No, you just think you are. The PPSH shoots way faster, allowing the one holding it to send more bullets flying at the enemy in a shorter space of time than he can, and THAT is what gives the guy holding the PPSH the advantage.
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The rate of fire doesn't help much. The MP40's fast enough for the job, and it deals more damage per shot. The PPSh could even be seen as flat out worse at close range because it's not as controllable, if you miss with the first shot on the MP40 it's much easier to adjust your aim to kill the bastard. If you have the PPSh, that's trickier.
That is just flat out wrong. I have been using the PPSH a lot ingame, it's one of my favorite weapons, and indoors it is way better than the MP40. So as long as I'm indoors I feel extremely secure wielding the PPSH.

With the MP40 on the other hand I feel most secure if I can keep the engagement ranges at around 25 meters or more. If I'm indoors with an MP40 I get real nervous if I hear a PPSH nearby, and I'll pick one up first chance I get!
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You pick up the PPSh when you have the MP40? You're shooting yourself in the foot. I'd rather have a gun that isn't a pile of spray and recoil instead of a gun that just shoots faster.
Having actually fired both guns myself, my answer to that is: No they haven't.
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Have you ever noticed how bloody stacked the teams are? At the start of the rounds it's far from rare to see 4 more guys on axis than allies. It's never the other way around. This can't be for any reason but weapons.


And finally, Germans looted the PPSh en masse for an important reason. Both sides knew very well it was the better weapon. TWI used unrealistic balance adjustments to make it worse at low levels and force the unlock system down our throats.
 
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#40
Scarf Ace said:
..Have you ever noticed how bloody stacked the teams are? At the start of the rounds it's far from rare to see 4 more guys on axis than allies. It's never the other way around. This can't be for any reason but weapons.
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I for one play German a lot because I was Russian in RO1 all the time.
I also pick the side depending on if I want to attack or defend.

I almost always play with rifles. If there is an mp40 and ppsh on the ground, I take the one that suits the situation most of the time that bing the ppsh.

when I can use drums the ppsh will be even better, since it will not need as much reloading as I clear enemy held buildings.
 
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