Bandaging and Health Regen

I don't mind bandaging, I always play on realism mode so you usually get one hit killed anyway, but when you do get hit and bleed and you're trying to sprint across an open field you may or may not be able to make it in time, and stopping to bandage before getting to cover first would most likely end up with you being lawlpwned by anyone trying to protect the objective you're rushing. So it helps to create a bit of tension, since you can't be sure you'll make it to your next point of cover in time before bleeding out.

Mattebubben said:

the things is that u bleed out and bandage to fast.
For example the other day i was running around with my ppsh41 i fired a burst at a german only to find out that the burst was the last i had in the mag i instantly started reloading the enemy was hit by my burst but did not see me.
directly after he was hit he Bandaged himself he looked around he saw me 10m away and brought up his pistol and shot me and all that in a shorter time then it took me to reload.
Bandaging is close to instant as it is now its more like a quick time event then anything else.
Most of the time u dont even have to take cover as it takes so short time to do.
i would suggest making it take longer to do something like 4-5 sec or more so u have to take cover before u do it.
Or so u can take the Opportunity to move/charge while he is busy Bandaging himself.

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thats your fault for not reloading before you saw him and your fault for trying to do a reload after not killing him. YOu should have Sprint up and meleed him, or gotten your pistol out.

Dont blame anyone but yourself there.

Dread_Moose said:

thats your fault for not reloading before you saw him and your fault for trying to do a reload after not killing him. YOu should have Sprint up and meleed him, or gotten your pistol out.

Dont blame anyone but yourself there.

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Tried thinking at any point? He was using it as an example as to why the bandage time is too fast, being able to bandage faster than you can reload is retarded, if it's true. I haven't checked myself.

nebsif said:

My point is that the current bandage system is just health regen with a different name, one of those "make it more forgiving" features that contribute nothing to the game other than making it possible for newbs to shrug off rifle rounds in the speed of a sneeze.

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Idea of bandage system is OK. What isn't OK is time it takes to bleed out and bandage. You bleed so fast that sometimes you can't even manage to use bandages and you certainly should patch yourself up quite longer to make it more balanced. Finding safe corner/hole to bandage would make much more sense than it is now.

A medic class may be an interesting stop-gap solution, with bandages still included. Perhaps add some slight effects after a bandage is applied, slightly slower movement, more sway during ADS, etc etc. Then, have a medic class that essentially places another bandage on the wounded (but self-bandaged) soldier to bring them back to full potential. This would probably only be fun on the 64-man servers, but it would give you a sense of realism, having to crawl back to a medic.

SasQuatch said:

We've experimented with permanent crippling effects in the past, during the MOD days. The problem we encountered was that people who got injured simply suicided and re-spawned rather then playing on with the damage effects. We introduced a crippling effect that vanished over time after that fiasco (regeneration effect). Basically bleed-out and bandaging is a variant on this theme.

So no, currently, due to experience, permanent damage systems are not in infantry combat, only in tanks. That is probably why we have a repair system for tanks as well. My best guess would be that if we would have a permanent damage system for infantry, we would be 1 small step away from health packs for infantry as well to prevent people from just commiting suicide.

Just my 2 cts.

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If that's the end result of a good damage system then why not just let them suicide or just kill them outright?

If the injury was so bad that he would have commited suicude rather than play on as a result of his injuries it doesn't make any sense to let him live. Basically what you have now are incapacitated soldiers running around on their second life without respawning.

I do agree with the idea of at least bring back ROST's system or a hybrid system for crippling. I found that it added to the game when I got hit in the leg or the arm and faced temperay penalty's. However I would be fine with this being Realism mode only.

Personally I think the bandage system is good, but the numbers involved need tweaking. The rate of bleed should be reduced, and the bandage time increased to match.

Bandaging in a few seconds looks hilariously stupid. It really needs to be bumped up to several seconds to even start to look realistic. And let's face it if you were injured in such a way a field dressing is going to make a difference, it's going to be a slow enough bleed that you could take cover. It's not something that's going to kill you in a matter of 10 seconds or so.

Yet if you're bleeding in RO2 you pretty much have to bandage within seconds, no matter if you're in the open or even in the middle of combat. I recall getting in a shoot out at close range with someone when this happened. We both injured one another and kept shooting at each other for a couple of seconds as I headed towards the stairs hoping to get some cover. I stop and bandage, and the other guy does the same. And then the shoot out resumes! Madness.

LordKhaine said:

Personally I think the bandage system is good, but the numbers involved need tweaking. The rate of bleed should be reduced, and the bandage time increased to match.

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This would only mean more sponging, and further favour the run and gun style and (semi-)autos compared to bolt-actions.

SasQuatch said:

We've experimented with permanent crippling effects in the past, during the MOD days. The problem we encountered was that people who got injured simply suicided and re-spawned rather then playing on with the damage effects. We introduced a crippling effect that vanished over time after that fiasco (regeneration effect). Basically bleed-out and bandaging is a variant on this theme.

So no, currently, due to experience, permanent damage systems are not in infantry combat, only in tanks. That is probably why we have a repair system for tanks as well. My best guess would be that if we would have a permanent damage system for infantry, we would be 1 small step away from health packs for infantry as well to prevent people from just commiting suicide.

Just my 2 cts.

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The thing is that the system in RO1 that you described worked just fine. If you got shot in the leg, you were temporarily slower and unable to sprint, which was a nice compromise between permanently damaging someone and having them magically be OK.

So I guess if it wasn't broke, why try to fix it?

SasQuatch said:

We introduced a crippling effect that vanished over time after that fiasco (regeneration effect). Basically bleed-out and bandaging is a variant on this theme.

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Wait a minute? How could you not have thought about some simple things like, a shot in the arm=drop weapon, in the leg=slows you down for some time, helmet blur vision and shaking cam, etc. etc., oh wait you have! You had it in RO:OST, I don't see the bleed out system/bandage is a variant of that theme. It seems another fiasco to me.

Regarding the penalties causing people to choose suicide: could it be that it happened because no one wanted to limp for an hour to the next objective on those massive maps? I played the release version of RO and thought there were some points where the injuries were a bit too harsh, but I really liked the concept.

Losing a gun when being shot in the hand was ****ing horrible and so was coming to a complete stop when someone shot you in the leg (full sprint to zero, standing there like an idiot). However, a slight, but noticeable penalty for getting shot in a certain area isn't going to detract from the fun, but rather, add to it. I would rather get shot and tough it out than suicide, take a 2 point loss (OMGpersistentstats!!!!11oneleven), and then wait for another wave. In the time I spend waiting to respawn, I could be killing people, and the injuries themselves make the experience better because it feels like I am achieving the impossible.

I even have a way that this could be incorporated without totally ruining the game for the casual crowd. Make some of the injuries % based to help offset some of the rank improvements. Get shot in your left arm -> your level 50 k98 handles like a level 35. Stacking injuries would be even better; you got shot in the hand and the forearm on the same side so you get a 10% penalty instead of 5% or w/e. Then make each wound zone on the body subtract points from a specific category

EX:

right hand = lower reload skill
left forearm/arm = lower ironsight speed


...just add % penalties where applicable and leg wounds should slow running speed or lower stamina enough to make players feel a little weighed down (e.g. injured riflemen would handle similarly to engis or AT).

You could say that low level players aren't going to like the injury feature, but to be honest, the weapons aren't that hard to use to begin with. Weapon sway is already negligible while standing unsupported or after depleting stamina and you are going to give me a ~20% increase in handling when I level up? Come on, this game should be a little more challenging than that. The gameplay needs more depth, and I don't think weapon/character progression alone can provide it.

Current system is like having a regen button.


Give us effects that are dependent on the wound location - leg wounds mean you walk slower, arm wounds mean your aim is shakier (this statement assumes that aim is already shaky at all, which isn't true ), and make bandaging take longer. I shouldn't be able to bandage my near-mortal wound before my attacker can reload and come around the corner to finish me off.

Krobar said:

How about a longer bleed time and a longer bandage time, but when you're injured (bleeding) you get the crippling effects? I'm just... Sayin.

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I like this a lot. You'd have to be careful about the crippling effects.

I just think we have to consider wiether players will find it fun to have to find a corner and bandage for 30 seconds to a minute (and even those numbers aren't realistic).

The current bandage system acknowledges that sometimes you have to tend to yourself. Maybe for a temp adjustment for now make it take 3 times as long to bandage and bleed out on Realism?

nebsif said:

What we have now is the worst. I liked the RO1 way more (temp penalties?), getting shot in the leg or hand ment something and felt more immersive, while bandaging faster than you can get a plaster out of ur pocket is plain stupid and became a mandatory reflex players developed w/o much or any thinking involved.

You guys could at least increase the time it takes to bleed out and bandage to make it somewhat more meaningful, currently people often get behind a corner in under 10m firefights and bandage before the other guy can come close and finish you off while vulnerable.

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I agree with the change you are proposing.