Dramatically lower exp requirements for AT class.

[Fulgenzio]

Premise Sorry if I probably annoyed you with all these posts so far. Its just I restarted playing game very often....and maybe what I ask has been already written here.


Anti tank class does not appear often in game. Works only in combined arms maps, otherwise its nowhere.

Request as title says is to lower its exp requirements, or, if not, dramatically increase the points acquired.
Its already hard to deal with anti tank rifle (though CQC still can be done with p38) as it works as a slow standard rifle version, and yet you have to find the right place.

Same thing applies to the two anti tank rifles. 58 kills! Thats not possible. And this cant be solved by playing countdown since AT is disabled. I dont want to propose everyone being able to reach hero AT* only few I saw did it, but with real pain) but at least put things easier. People can barely get to Frontline soldier....
....and killing tanks gives just +2 vehicle kill pts.

Just fix it.

I think AT rifles should have same requirements as bolt actions.
Class itself instead, could have its exp requirements cut by half.
(NOTE this is not a BBQ thread. I know how to play it and even though I racked up many points in some games, I am only close to frontline soldier, though I have killed more people than normal thanks to my pistol).

[teemu92]

I dont play the class myself but taking out tanks should give more then +2 for sure.

[ro2player]

Originally Posted by Fulgenzio

I think AT rifles should have same requirements as bolt actions.

You want At soldier have two normal grenades and not two AT grenades in more his At rifle ?

[Marorin]

Originally Posted by ro2player

You want At soldier have two normal grenades and not two AT grenades in more his At rifle ?

No, i think he means to have the same kill req for a lvl as the bolt rifles

[ro2player]

Originally Posted by Marorin

No, i think he means to have the same kill req for a lvl as the bolt rifles

Sorry for wrong answer so. At rifle is hard to use. Maybe it's why there is difference of level betwen this two kind of weapon ? I know At riflemen can use it also against infantery soldier, but At rifle objective it's to destroy tanks - what is not easy. (or maybe easy for veteran or At rifle.)

[LordKhaine]

Originally Posted by Fulgenzio

I think AT rifles should have same requirements as bolt actions.
Class itself instead, could have its exp requirements cut by half.

I don't agree with cutting the class requirements. As you said yourself, it's easy enough to get into the thick of it with a pistol (and loot other equipment as required).

Though I do agree about the requirements for the AT rifle being a bit.. excessive. By its very nature the weapon is usually not used against infantry. And since tanks don't add to the kill points for a gun it becomes highly unlikely anyone is going to get many levels in it (I think I have level 2 with the PTRS, and I've been a "hero" in that class for a long long time).

But then... I'm a classic player and I hate the idea of unlocks and levels in general...

[GARY OAK]

just do a similar method that they have in countdown mode where you get allot more points per kill, i recall its about 16 points per kill.

so just give the Anti tankers 20-30 points per tank they knock out, that should help them along some.

maybe give them 10-15 points per crew they kill, but cap it out at a maximum of 30 points per tank so if they knock out the tank as well they only get up to this 30 points cap in total.

also lower the exp you need to level to that of bolt actions.
there you go problem solved

[Baron von thryke]

I remember the AT rifle being a far more viable sniper rifle in RO1 due to weapon sway and the like. I think it's effectiveness should be upped in RO2 by upping penetration and it's supression factor against infantry.

For instance, if you fire at some infantry taking cover behind a wall with one, not only will it supress them but there will be a chance it'll cause a small shrapnel 'explosion' not killing the people behind the wall but just slightly injuring them (like a slightly toned down version of a grenade going off say 10-15ft away) making it more effective against infantry. Considering, like you say, they barely ever get used unless it's a tank map, I think something like this would make people use the role more for supression and it's 'cover busting' properties.

[GARY OAK]

Originally Posted by Baron von thryke

I remember the AT rifle being a far more viable sniper rifle in RO1 due to weapon sway and the like. I think it's effectiveness should be upped in RO2 by upping penetration and it's supression factor against infantry.

For instance, if you fire at some infantry taking cover behind a wall with one, not only will it supress them but there will be a chance it'll cause a small shrapnel 'explosion' not killing the people behind the wall but just slightly injuring them (like a slightly toned down version of a grenade going off say 10-15ft away) making it more effective against infantry. Considering, like you say, they barely ever get used unless it's a tank map, I think something like this would make people use the role more for supression and it's 'cover busting' properties.

i think that would be a little ridiculous. the extra suppression is needed but i think if they fix the hit detection for the atr, and increase its penetration through cover. that will be fine.

i am not sure how 1 or 2 bricks can stop stop a rifle round, let alone a 14.5mm shell

[PhoenixDragon]

Originally Posted by GARY OAK

i am not sure how 1 or 2 bricks can stop stop a rifle round, let alone a 14.5mm shell

A normal brick is about 8.5cm thick. The US Army did a bunch of weapon-penetration studies and found that a M240 (7.62x51mm NATO) would "usually" penetrate a single-thickness brick wall at 45 degrees, which is the equivalent of "usually" penetrating 12cm of brick.

In RO2, the Mosin Nagant has a PenetrationDepth of just under 23 UU, and brick has a penetration modifier of 0.5, resulting in a total penetration through brick of about 11.5 UU, or 23cm. That's almost 3 bricks. The PTRS hits 38cm, enough to punch through 4 bricks, almost 5.

Neither of these include the real-world effect of eroding the wall with subsequent hits, but the penetration looks appropriate.

The problem is that there are no single-brick thickness walls in RO2. Everything appears to be done in multiples of 16 UU (32cm, or almost 4 bricks thick). Non-supporting walls (Such as most interior walls) are supposed to be this thick, and only ATRs could penetrate such a wall, and then only at a fairly straight-on angle. Supporting walls are supposed to be 32 UU (64cm), which is safe from anything short of a tank cannon (Edit: Got curious and checked; tank cannons firing AP rounds can penetrate about 120cm of brick.).

So penetration depth is good, it's just that the walls are so thick.

[Fulgenzio]

Originally Posted by GARY OAK

just do a similar method that they have in countdown mode where you get allot more points per kill, i recall its about 16 points per kill.

so just give the Anti tankers 20-30 points per tank they knock out, that should help them along some.

maybe give them 10-15 points per crew they kill, but cap it out at a maximum of 30 points per tank so if they knock out the tank as well they only get up to this 30 points cap in total.

also lower the exp you need to level to that of bolt actions.
there you go problem solved

This and the less tick walls.
I want to see both in-game.

Does TWI read this at all anyway?

[Baron von thryke]

Originally Posted by GARY OAK

i think that would be a little ridiculous. the extra suppression is needed but i think if they fix the hit detection for the atr, and increase its penetration through cover. that will be fine.

i am not sure how 1 or 2 bricks can stop stop a rifle round, let alone a 14.5mm shell

I really don't think it's ridiculous considering that

A.) The penetration model isn't all that realistic and as someone else said, walls don't gradually get destroyed by subsequent hits or anything, so this is a kind of 'gamey' way to reflect the cover busting capabilities of such a rifle.

B.) it's a game/I didn't mean this would happen every single hit of the wall (though realistically even the nagant would consistently penetrate a standard brick wall) rather every few shots (like the penetrated/didn't penetrate model with tanks).

The AT rifles only hold five rounds and have a slow reload process/max amount of rounds carried is about 20, so if your next point is 'it's ridiculous, it'd be spammed' no it wouldn't. They've already added the 'armour piercing' rounds for use against tanks, why not incendiary/explosive ones for 'cover busting.'

As for TWI actually reading any of this, nah.

[Trotskygrad]

Originally Posted by PhoenixDragon

A normal brick is about 8.5cm thick. The US Army did a bunch of weapon-penetration studies and found that a M240 (7.62x51mm NATO) would "usually" penetrate a single-thickness brick wall at 45 degrees, which is the equivalent of "usually" penetrating 12cm of brick.

In RO2, the Mosin Nagant has a PenetrationDepth of just under 23 UU, and brick has a penetration modifier of 0.5, resulting in a total penetration through brick of about 11.5 UU, or 23cm. That's almost 3 bricks. The PTRS hits 38cm, enough to punch through 4 bricks, almost 5.

Neither of these include the real-world effect of eroding the wall with subsequent hits, but the penetration looks appropriate.

The problem is that there are no single-brick thickness walls in RO2. Everything appears to be done in multiples of 16 UU (32cm, or almost 4 bricks thick). Non-supporting walls (Such as most interior walls) are supposed to be this thick, and only ATRs could penetrate such a wall, and then only at a fairly straight-on angle. Supporting walls are supposed to be 32 UU (64cm), which is safe from anything short of a tank cannon (Edit: Got curious and checked; tank cannons firing AP rounds can penetrate about 120cm of brick.).

So penetration depth is good, it's just that the walls are so thick.

so there's no difference in penetration based on material?

[Westernesse]

Originally Posted by Fulgenzio

I think AT rifles should have same requirements as bolt actions.

Something like this would be a good idea. I've had the class at hero for ~1 year now, but my total AT gun levels comes out to something like 15. You can definitely snipe with it on a level like Fallen fighters, but limited ammo is an issue.

If you want to level a class fast, just play attackers and get on the point, every time. On Commissioner's house you can easily get 150+ points from caps (8 total) + anything you get from kills/destroyed doors with satchels (if your a veteran).

[PhoenixDragon]

Originally Posted by Trotskygrad

so there's no difference in penetration based on material?

...Where did you get that idea?

Originally Posted by PhoenixDragon

...and brick has a penetration modifier of 0.5...

That's what this part is. That rather implies that other materials have different penetration modifiers (They do).