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LAW is underpowered!

So has anyone else stopped to realize that we're actually comparing the damage of an anti-tank rocket launcher...and a crossbow?
Only in Killing Floor... :rolleyes:

Anyways, I was using the LAW just a few hours ago in a full H.o.E Biotics Lab game earlier. The other team members were a medic, 2 supports, and 2 sharpshooters. We camped at the spawn point, and absolutely dominated. I was able to kill absurd numbers of zeds with each rocket because of the narrow hallways while the supports mopped up smaller groups and the sharpshooters picked off single targets. FP's and Scrakes stood virtually no chance to a pair of Hunting Shotguns or AA-12's, the LAW, a crossbow SS and an M14/LAR SS. I tried not to shoot Scrakes with it unless they were charging though. I was also able to afford all my rockets and pipe bombs on my own. Didn't use all my pipe bombs every wave though, just kept 1 pipe bomb behind the barrel on the left and 2 behind the welded door on the far left in case a FP broke it open, and saved the rest for replacements or dropping in front of an incoming FP.
Sadly, my computer crashed on wave 10 :(
 
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LAW does a comparatively huge chunk of damage to an FP. Almost half its health - I remember someone in the beta (likely scary ghost) posted with a video showing that 2 LAWs and a few 9mm shots will kill an FP. The ability to carry pipes as well makes a LAW demo an excellent defense against FPs (and sometimes Scrakes) if supported by a good team.
 
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well it could still be correct, as the xbow shots do corresponding body damage as well (even more, actually, due to the headshot multiplier). If you counted all the damage done by the double headshots, the FP may be weak enough for a rocket to finish off the body health. I don't know for sure if that is possible, just saying there is no reason it couldn't be. :p


A few post earlier I already post the result of testing... and if I reamember right, even 3 xbow head shot cannot make the demo finish off the pound by one rocket. Yes, xbow do damage to both body and head, but just not effective enough.
 
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FPs have even more resistance to headshots in HoE and suicidal, so I assume the LAW is only better than the bow for FPs/Scrakes in the top difficulties.

Anyway, after the radius got increased in.. 1016? Whatever the Incendiary was, I constantly used it for the giant hordes. Never seemed worthwhile to use up a ton of ammo, potential kills, and breathing room for your team just to wound a fleshpound - except in extreme circumstances, but every weapon is like that.
 
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LAW is good as it is now. As I know, it has no damage penalties or bonuses to any specimen. It deal constant damage (on direct hit), which is 950 + 10% per demolition perk level, reaching 1520 when used by Level 6 demo. When shooting to the head, it deals approximately double damage (~3k), which is subtracted from specimen body health points (explosives do not score headshots). Many thinks it's a bug and must be removed, but I think it's a great feature and must be leaved as it is. Because hitting the head with rocket is much more harder than with xbow, so it must be paid.
 
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A few post earlier I already post the result of testing... and if I reamember right, even 3 xbow head shot cannot make the demo finish off the pound by one rocket. Yes, xbow do damage to both body and head, but just not effective enough.

Ok wait a minute.. if you have to do more than 3 shots you not hitting where you supposed to.. where the heck your SS shooting.. the 4th shot takin with the Xbow should only be to take out the headless body unless you stink at shooting and dont get your opening to the good crit shot on him

I only need 3 shots and Im not the only SS that has to only take 3.. start askin around..

Ill explain
First shot rages.
Second shot is very importand. This has to shoot in his mouth. He almost dead, huge chunk of health taken out with the second shot.
Third shot is taken while he is charging or team can take him out at this point, such as the LAW or AA12 spam.

So if your SS (or you) are not shooting your FP like that than your not shooting right. Same problem I have seen with scrakes.. ppl just cant hit them right. Just learn their hit boxes
Dont tell me u tested it and I find out later you dont know what your doing.
 
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Ok wait a minute.. if you have to do more than 3 shots you not hitting where you supposed to.. where the heck your SS shooting.. the 4th shot takin with the Xbow should only be to take out the headless body unless you stink at shooting and dont get your opening to the good crit shot on him

I only need 3 shots and Im not the only SS that has to only take 3.. start askin around..

Ill explain
First shot rages.
Second shot is very importand. This has to shoot in his mouth. He almost dead, huge chunk of health taken out with the second shot.
Third shot is taken while he is charging or team can take him out at this point, such as the LAW or AA12 spam.

So if your SS (or you) are not shooting your FP like that than your not shooting right. Same problem I have seen with scrakes.. ppl just cant hit them right. Just learn their hit boxes
Dont tell me u tested it and I find out later you dont know what your doing.


And you sure you playing on HoE? 6man?

I AM SURE THAT xbow needs 4 hs to kill a fleshpound (after 3 hs, his head can be removed by 2 9mm shots, but you need to do a **** ton of damage to his body to kill him at this point). And two xbow HEAD SHOT + only one LAW ROCKET NEVER KILL 6-man HoE fleshpound. You need some more shots.
 
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I've heard that the LAW is a good weapon. I've heard that its a medium weapon, but all I'm suggesting is make it lighter.

For the weight and cost, it is just not worth it.

For less weight, you can carry BOTH grenade launchers fully loaded. MUCH more useful and deadly than the LAW.

If the law were lighter I'd definatly use it a bit more.
 
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For less weight, you can carry BOTH grenade launchers fully loaded. MUCH more useful and deadly than the LAW.
No they aren't.

You're probably one of those player who would buy a LAW and shoot a solitary crawler with it, then whine that they have no ammo and that the gun is terrible because they don't know which situations to use it in.
 
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So has anyone else stopped to realize that we're actually comparing the damage of an anti-tank rocket launcher...and a crossbow?
Only in Killing Floor... :rolleyes:

Anyways, I was using the LAW just a few hours ago in a full H.o.E Biotics Lab game earlier. The other team members were a medic, 2 supports, and 2 sharpshooters. We camped at the spawn point, and absolutely dominated. I was able to kill absurd numbers of zeds with each rocket because of the narrow hallways while the supports mopped up smaller groups and the sharpshooters picked off single targets. FP's and Scrakes stood virtually no chance to a pair of Hunting Shotguns or AA-12's, the LAW, a crossbow SS and an M14/LAR SS. I tried not to shoot Scrakes with it unless they were charging though. I was also able to afford all my rockets and pipe bombs on my own. Didn't use all my pipe bombs every wave though, just kept 1 pipe bomb behind the barrel on the left and 2 behind the welded door on the far left in case a FP broke it open, and saved the rest for replacements or dropping in front of an incoming FP.
Sadly, my computer crashed on wave 10 :(

Ha, think I was playing with you that game (I don't remember names, but remember playing Biotics at like 3am and our demo suddenly leaving at wave 10). If so it had a pretty interesting ending... 2 fp's suddenly appeared when you left and killed everyone but me. Luckily I found one of your remaining pipes which killed both fp's. ;) Then I had to kite the remaining 50 mobs with no medic armour. The three scrakes nearly killed me but luckily I hit my no scope xbow shots for once and we won lol .:p

Oh, to stay on topic LAW is awesome. Both LAW and M32 are great, they're just different. :cool:
 
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Ha, think I was playing with you that game (I don't remember names, but remember playing Biotics at like 3am and our demo suddenly leaving at wave 10). If so it had a pretty interesting ending... 2 fp's suddenly appeared when you left and killed everyone but me. Luckily I found one of your remaining pipes which killed both fp's. ;) Then I had to kite the remaining 50 mobs with no medic armour. The three scrakes nearly killed me but luckily I hit my no scope xbow shots for once and we won lol .:p

Oh, to stay on topic LAW is awesome. Both LAW and M32 are great, they're just different. :cool:

Haha, yeah, that was me :) I recognize your name (only because I was in a game last night with Pizza_the_Hut, one of the supports, and he was talking about it lol) Glad I placed those pipes before my comp crashed :D
 
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No they aren't.

You're probably one of those player who would buy a LAW and shoot a solitary crawler with it, then whine that they have no ammo and that the gun is terrible because they don't know which situations to use it in.

No they aren't.

You're probably one of those player who would buy a LAW and shoot a solitary crawler with it, then whine that they have no ammo and that the gun is terrible because they don't know which situations to use it in.


Ok. Level 6 demo:
So each Grenade Launcher round costs 7 and deals 560.
each LAW Rocket costs 22 and deals 1520.

This makes them similar in efficiency (GL slight edge) but we should also consider that the LAWs 1520 is overkill for large groups of weaker ZEDS which is the demo's primary function.
I've found it much more useful to deal 560 to 3 different groups than 1520 to one.
Despite all this, the M32 can fire rounds off rapidly to match or beat the LAW rocket attack if the user is willing to reload after. The M32 can reload 2 grenades in the time that the LAW reloads 1. Time and circumstance usually permit plenty of time to reload between attacks.

Now consider the cost of the units:
M32 costs 750 M79 is free for lvl 6
LAW costs 900 M79 is sold for 269 or kept on ground.
So keeping 2 GL on your person is slightly more expensive (119 to be exact),
but nothing significant.


So the weapons are fairly equal in cost and damage efficiency.
Now consider the LAW's advantages and disadvantages.

Advantage:
The LAW is better at stunning large ZEDs.
Less explosions than the M32 sometimes means less blinding smoke.
Slightly larger blast radius

Disadvantage:
Ammo capacity. 22 vs. M32's 36 (plus whatever else demo is carrying with it)
Needing to use sight means less mobility.
Long arming range.







So my point is this. The LAW isn't really "better" than the M32. It's really a matter of preferance. Personally, I think the M32 is more useful.

So why then is the weight set at a crippling 12
That vs. the M32's 7.
Solution?
Reduce the L.A.W.'s weight to 10 blocks.


This even makes sense in a realistic sense.
M32
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M32_MGL
LAW
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT4


M32 weights 5.2 kg
LAW weights 6.7 kg
 
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As demolition you can choose between M79+M32 or just a LAW. Making LAW lighter will push M32 out of a scene. Btw, you can ask supporter to get your M79 to the trader while you carry a LAW. So you can shoot small zeds with GL, but when bigger comes, drop it on the ground and take a LAW.
 
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Making LAW lighter will push M32 out of a scene.
No it won't
If you make the LAW light enough (at least for the Demolitions perk only) to carry a M79 with it, you are only able to carry LAW+M79 (or maybe something like LAW+Pipebomb+Katana, but then you have a full loadout.)

If you go M32+M79, you STILL have 3 blocks to fill out however you want, wether that is carrying a katana with you, or maybe some pipebombs plus a machete.

Imo, the LAW at 10 weight (once again: At least only for Demolitions, like a LAW weight reduction as a perk bonus) would not be too unbalanced PLUS it would be quite alot of fun with some variety!
However, if the weight for the LAW doesn't change, i don't really care either :p
 
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...large groups of weaker ZEDS which is the demo's primary function.
...

What.

...Okay, maybe on Normal. But on Suicidal, HoE, and sometimes even Hard the Demo will be useless to the team if he focuses on mobs of clots. He's best off saving his shots for Husks, Sirens and FPs. The LAW is also useful against Scrakes for the stun.

I think the LAW and M32 are about even. The LAW may get 1 or 2 shots against an FP (2 will bring it down to a sliver of health) while the M32 will kill or almost kill an FP (depending on shot placement) with 6 shots. Then the M32 has a huge reload time and you've used 1/6th of your ammo compared to 1/11th of the LAW's. Anyway the LAW wouldn't be too much better with a weight decrease but if there's any kind of damage nerf tied to this I'll say no.
 
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Solution?
Reduce the L.A.W.'s weight to 10 blocks.


This even makes sense in a realistic sense.
M32
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M32_MGL
LAW
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT4


M32 weights 5.2 kg
LAW weights 6.7 kg
That solves nothing.
It lets Demo carry too much firepower; simple as that. Nobody cares about how much the respective weapons weigh in real life. The Killing Floor LAW is fictional too, so you cannot define it's weight.

So there's nothing to solve in the end; the game is well balanced and this model of LAW has been given a realistic weight.
 
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The worst thing about LAW right now is that your rockets (that were supposed to be harmless up to 10 meters) can blow in your face as soon they leave the barrel. They are detonated by nearby explosions of teammates' grenades, pipes and hand grenades, which results in instant death, even for Lvl6 demo with full armor and health.
 
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