Suppression update request.

PermenentMarker said:

Suppression doesn't affect anyone... or me for that matter...

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Then you and I aren't playing the same game sir.

Even with my blurred black and white screen, I am fully capable of returning fire and taking out an MG if he doesn't pick me off first the second I peak.

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As he should not be. You play a soldier, who is trained to do his job *under fire*.

Also, you feel unsuppressed very quickly.

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This is correct. It's a basic fact of real life combat that suppression wears off very quickly when fire is stopped.

Well, than the guy suppressing you sucks, and deserves your bullet to the face.

When I suppress people, they get to cover. If they don't, they die. If they peek out, they die.

I keep my fire lanes narrow and myself concealed. They can't see me without being in my ironsights. Stay mobile when things quiet down, then light them up again from an unexpected angle. Rinse and repeat ad nauseum.

They don't need to make suppression more dramatic, you need to stop missing. Don't waste a bullet unless you know you can kill the guy, or you're just giving away your position.

+1 more suppression effects

in real life you'd **** bricks hearing an mg....

i had the infinit suppression bug for a while, so i ended up playing 75% of the match in a black and white suppressed mode; the only good that came out of that is i got used to played while suppressed.

I'm rather proficient at it lol. I love when an mg suppresses me and i just leapout and put a round in his head; i can just immagine his frustration lol.

Suprresive fire is is direct or indirect fire that degrades the performance of a target below what is needed to fullfill it's objective. As it stands, suppressive fire doesnt really degrade my ability to do anyting; maybe increasing the sway like crazy might help

The effects of suppression are little more than a blak and white screen.

Darkest Hour seemed to get it right, but it would never be accepted by the arcade community.

Filo90 said:

+1 more suppression effects

in real life you'd **** bricks hearing an mg....

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Unless you were specifically trained to -not- **** bricks when getting shot at. You know, like a soldier.

luciferintears said:

Suppressive fire is is direct or indirect fire that degrades the performance of a target below what is needed to fulfill it's objective. As it stands, suppressive fire doesn't really degrade my ability to do anything; maybe increasing the sway like crazy might help

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No, suppression is direct fire designed to convince your opponent that popping out and trying to shoot you dead is a bad idea. The most effective form of suppression is to kill him and all of his buddies, because then he -CAN'T- pop out and kill you dead. Failing that, you need to kill him and all of his buddies if they even think about trying to pop out and shoot your guys. You don't do this by wasting ammo on their cover.

The only things that can suppress through sheer volume of fire are basically field artillery pieces. Mortars, tripod mounted HMGs, and artillery don't have to aim for marksmanship, they are so big that they can just dump rounds on an area and count on the explosions and rounds the size of my thigh to annihilate anything on the other end. This is not a piece of equipment an individual soldier can carry and use. Things that can do this require an entire team of trained individuals manning it from a safe point behind friendly lines.

Josef Nader said:

Unless you were specifically trained to -not- **** bricks when getting shot at. You know, like a soldier.

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Band of Brothers- Battle for Carentan - YouTube

watch at 2:44

usually soldiers were not Rambo style but human beings

Filo90 said:

watch at 2:44

usually soldiers were not Rambo style but human beings

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I never said they were.

But if they broke down and quit just because some kraut was shooting at them, we never would have gotten anywhere. War is terrifying. Bravery is overcoming your terror. It's still there, but it doesn't stop you from doing what you have to do. You can either **** there like a coward and **** yourself until a potato masher lands in your lap, or you can man up and do something about that little ol' MG position.

Sure, not every soldier is Rambo. That's why you have teammates, buddies watching your back. An MG'er will win a 1v1 fight with a riflemen more often than not (unless he sucks), but against 2+ riflemen, he's in trouble, especially if they're smart and they spread out. While he's shooting at one, another one kills his ***.

Really guys, when it comes down to it you either die in a hole or keep pressing towards your objective. You really don't have any other options in war.

EDIT: Replied without watching the video. Notice how it was a single soldier with a hand grenade that silenced the nest? While that one guy was ****ting bricks, the rest of his buddies were doing their job and taking out the gunner.

And note how despite the fact that the MG'er was shooting at him, one of the riflemen managed to drop his loader.

Just sayin'.

EDIT 2: In fact, that video totally undercuts your entire point. Despite the fact that you could hear bullets wizzing around the entire group, what did they do? They bloody charged! They attacked the objective, kept moving, and eliminated the enemy defense.

Face it, war isn't for sissies. Your mates are counting on you to watch their backs, and cowardice won't be tolerated, not for a second. You do what you have to do or you die.

Josef Nader said:

I never said they were.

But if they broke down and quit just because some kraut was shooting at them, we never would have gotten anywhere. War is terrifying. Bravery is overcoming your terror. It's still there, but it doesn't stop you from doing what you have to do. You can either **** there like a coward and **** yourself until a potato masher lands in your lap, or you can man up and do something about that little ol' MG position.

Sure, not every soldier is Rambo. That's why you have teammates, buddies watching your back. An MG'er will win a 1v1 fight with a riflemen more often than not (unless he sucks), but against 2+ riflemen, he's in trouble, especially if they're smart and they spread out. While he's shooting at one, another one kills his ***.

Really guys, when it comes down to it you either die in a hole or keep pressing towards your objective. You really don't have any other options in war.

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maybe we have too much different opinions, we can't reach a meeting point lol

Filo90 said:

maybe we have too much different opinions, we can't reach a meeting point lol

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No but seriously. Watch the same video you posted. The one guy freaking out lasted for less than a second. Meanwhile, the bloody commander is STANDING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FREAKING ROAD TELLING THEM TO GET THEIR BUTTS UP AND ATTACK DESPITE THE MG'ER PINGING BULLETS ALL AROUND HIM.

Suppression effects. Riiiiiiiiiiight.

Oh, and before you go lolhollywood, I read this book, and this is based on a true story. There are actual accounts of this guy doing this, standing in the middle of the bloody road in the middle of a hailstorm of MG fire yelling at them to get to it.

Edit: Also, medics. Standing right in the middle of gunfire to try and give their buddies some help. Dropping guns and carrying guys away from the fighting to try and save them. Come on, mate. Suppression my big toe.

I vote ZERO suppression bull ****. Just give us teh supersonic cracks of bullets LIKE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE and let idiots stick their heads up at that. The blurry screen **** is just childish.

Filo90 said:

Band of Brothers- Battle for Carentan - YouTube

watch at 2:44

usually soldiers were not Rambo style but human beings

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I love it when you use a TV show as evidence baby.

CaptHawkeye said:

I love it when you use a TV show as evidence baby.

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Especially when it undercuts everything he's been saying.

Also TV show was heavily based on actual events and the real life accounts of the soldiers in E Company. It is, for the most part, incredibly accurate by most accounts.

I posted that video cause imho it shows how a soldier would react when he is under mg fire, HE FEEL FEAR!

The commander is shouting to move and get out of suppression.....

Moreover, i choose that video cause I think BoB is actually enough accurate to make examples

But the problem is that......find a real answer to suppression is difficult, we should be trained and than put facing an MG to find real answers......what we are stating are just our opionions

Josef Nader said:

Especially when it undercuts everything he's been saying.

Also TV show was heavily based on actual events and the real life accounts of the soldiers in E Company. It is, for the most part, incredibly accurate by most accounts.

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I think what would help a whole lot more is the sound rather than everything, film noire is not a suppression 'effect'. Loud bullet cracks, bullet hits (smoke etc) and general destruction is by all accounts suppression. I don't feel the need to really keep my head down on this, i just feel I can run and gun it unless I know the guy that's shooting at me is a good shot.

The whole stamina system and health system makes any suppression system in place a lost cause because if you think you'll be fine even if you do get hit there's no point in having it there. A bullet hitting you, no matter where should have a serious detrimental effect to you're "characters" ability to 'make war'. Once again I look at Resistance and Liberation for it's suppression effect. Shaking hands, inability to aim because your "character" is shaking and the sound made that suppression a lot more effective.

Filo90 said:

I posted that video cause imho it shows how a soldier would react when he is under mg fire, HE FEEL FEAR!

The commander is shouting to move and get out of suppression.....

Moreover, i choose that video cause I think BoB is actually enough accurate to make examples

But the problem is that......find a real answer to suppression is difficult, we should be trained and than put facing an MG to find real answers......what we are stating are just our opionions

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Good post.

The one of the points of suppression is that it IS very hard to pull off shots while being fired upon.
That guy at 2:44 was able to squeeze off that shot because he wasn't being shot at.
What we are seeing now is solders being shot at and just standing up and headshotting from 100+ M away. That is not realistic. Many of us think the gameplay would improve if it were harder to aim a second or so after a bullet whizzes by. Haven't you ever thrown a shot because you were distracted at the last second?

2Lt.Horvath [6th AB] said:

The whole stamina system and health system makes any suppression system in place a lost cause because if you think you'll be fine even if you do get hit there's no point in having it there. A bullet hitting you, no matter where should have a serious detrimental effect to you're "characters" ability to 'make war'. Once again I look at Resistance and Liberation for it's suppression effect. Shaking hands, inability to aim because your "character" is shaking and the sound made that suppression a lot more effective.

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Agreed. RnL has excellent suppression. I feel this game needs a boost in its suppression effects, but my reasoning is purely conjecture and has been stated in other posts. It would be great to have some veterans speak on the matter of suppression. All the veterans I've talked to have said it's complete and utter terror having a light or heavy machine gun firing on you but never have detailed exactly what happens to them. So I guess what is necessary is to understand what terror feels like, and any other words used as description in reference to suppression and go from there.

As for me, terror (or fear) is defined as an inability to think or react, accompanied by a massive influx of adrenaline that would invariably make your hands shake, give you sharper focus, and make you sweat.

Without conferring a dictionary, post your thoughts of what terror, fear, or whatever other words you have heard in reference to suppression and let's have a DISCUSSION.

In response to the OP, I agree that suppression effects need a bit of adjustment. However, I can't say I agree with the effects you've suggested. But that is because I don't know what it feels like to be under suppression. Can you justify your position of this,

PermenentMarker said:

Recommendation:

Double suppression time.
bigger suppressed effect. Darker and more blur.

Add full suppressed for like 10 to 20 seconds when you get shot.

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Side note - Josef, you're a plague to these forums for the people that want to discuss and not have a pissing contest. Everywhere I go you put forth your meaningless conjecture in an ego-filled ball of crap.

2Lt.Horvath [6th AB] said:

I think what would help a whole lot more is the sound rather than everything, film noire is not a suppression 'effect'. Loud bullet cracks, bullet hits (smoke etc) and general destruction is by all accounts suppression. I don't feel the need to really keep my head down on this, i just feel I can run and gun it unless I know the guy that's shooting at me is a good shot.

The whole stamina system and health system makes any suppression system in place a lost cause because if you think you'll be fine even if you do get hit there's no point in having it there. A bullet hitting you, no matter where should have a serious detrimental effect to you're "characters" ability to 'make war'. Once again I look at Resistance and Liberation for it's suppression effect. Shaking hands, inability to aim because your "character" is shaking and the sound made that suppression a lot more effective.

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That battle damage thing was tested extensively by TW and they determined that it wasn't all that fun and people would often just suicide to spawn fresh.

greenlemonade said:

That battle damage thing was tested extensively by TW and they determined that it wasn't all that fun and people would often just suicide to spawn fresh.

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I think that shows the root of unrealistic player behavior-respawn system.

And countdown's popularity (or lack of) along with Apartment being one of the most popular map shows what players want. Some realism but nothing that hampers the time spent in action.

Everyone wants to shoot realistic, but not get shot realistically And I don't mean that getting shot at in this game should require you to be hospitalize for months... I mean within the game's framework.