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Shotgun and Support suggestion

Aze

Grizzled Veteran
Mar 19, 2010
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1: Shotgun changes

Is it just me who thinks the Shotguns are a LITTLE bit too heavy? Wouldn't be more fun to have them slightly more available offperk, especially the regular Shotgun? So, here is my short list of Shotgun weight changes:

Shotgun weight down to 7, from 8 (-1 weight)
Hunting Shotgun weight down to 8, from 10 (-2 weight)
AA12 weight down to 9, from 10 (-1 weight)


2: Corresponding Support Specialist changes

If only point 1 would be made (lowering the Shotgun weights) the Support Specialist would become too powerful, because he would be able to carry a little bit too much extra stuff. So, along with the Shotgun weight changes, i have some proposed perk-weight bonuses. Here is the list:

Level 0 Support: +0 carry weight (=15 total)
Level 1 Support: +1 carry weight (=16 total)
Level 2 Support: +2 carry weight (=17 total)
Level 3 Support: +3 carry weight (=18 total)
Level 4 Support: +4 carry weight (=19 total)
Level 5 Support: +5 carry weight (=20 total)
Level 6 Support: +6 carry weight (=21 total, down from the current 24)

The combos get effected like this (at level 6):
* Shotgun + Hunting Shotgun combo = Spare weight goes unaffected
* AA12 + Hunting Shotgun combo = Spare weight goes unaffected
* Shotgun + AA12 combo = You sadly lose 1 spare weight :(

These perk and shotgun changes also has one great bonus effect: You can use the Shotgun + Hunting Shotgun combo already at level 1, the Shotgun + AA12 combo already at level 2 and the Hunting Shotgun + AA12 combo already at level 3!


3: Other future balance bonuses

These changes might maybe seem unnecessary at first, but they do have other balancing points to them and that is in offperk weaponry. The LAW can currently be carried with an AA12 or Hunting Shotgun at level 6 (13+10=23, which is the exact spare weight you have @ lvl 6). With my changes, you could at max carry the LAW with the regular Shotgun. In addition, the M99 (discussed in General and in the Modding area), which also would weigh 13, could then also only max be carried with the regular Shotgun.

It would also be a balance on the lightweight weaponry. If more stuff like the Mk23 (only weighs 2!) would be added, the Support Specialist would end up being able to carry a whole crapload of lightweight weapons, which might get a little unbalanced in the end. Reducing the Support Specialist's max carry-weight a little, which i have suggested here, would reduce this possible future unbalance as well.

Opinions? :eek:
 
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Hmmm... i see what you're getting at, but the Hunting Shotgun should probably only go down by one block in this case I reckon, because it is one of the most powerful weapons in the game in the hands of someone skilled with it. It probably weighs that much simply due to the power.

I don't mind either way what happens with the shotgun weights, I'm happy as is, but i ain't gonna jump up and down if it does get changed.
 
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That would help lower lvl players with perk be able to dual shotgun it up. which is nice on the flipside it ends being a slight nerf due to no being able combo heavy wepons together which by it self is very risky becuase if you die 1 one 2 of those wepons are gone.

I think it's fine where it is becuase you been able to at least carry 2 shotguns by perk lvl 3 which inst really hard to get to that point.
 
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yeah, it might be a bit too much, maybe just bringing the regular shotgun down to 6 or seven.

6 would be too light. 8 is ok, but feels a tad too much, so 7 is perfect :p

Hmmm... i see what you're getting at, but the Hunting Shotgun should probably only go down by one block in this case I reckon, because it is one of the most powerful weapons in the game in the hands of someone skilled with it. It probably weighs that much simply due to the power.

I don't mind either way what happens with the shotgun weights, I'm happy as is, but i ain't gonna jump up and down if it does get changed.

I understand the Hunting Shotgun concern, but it's not THAT awesome unperked and at a weight of 8 it is still very heavy. And over the AA12 and Hunting Shotgun, the AA12 is the "heavier" one (in terms of tiers) and i think the AA12 would be a tad overpowered with only 8 in weight.
(The reason i decrease it like this is because 7-8-9 in the Shotgun weights looks nice aestheticly compared to 7-9-9. It also follows a "tier pattern" where heavier weapon is a higher tier. Plus, if i would go with 7-9-9 weights, the change is only 2 weights down, which is an even tinier change.)

on the flipside it ends being a slight nerf due to no being able combo heavy wepons together
What do you mean by this? Ofc you can still combo heavy weapons, not just the HEAVIEST plus the SECOND HEAVIEST together anymore (ie a 13-weighter and a 10-weigher)

I don't think that's a good idea...the remaining 3 weight can be katana.This is a good weapon since both AA12 and Hunting shotgun are in low ammo status.No ammo and just go banzai charge.
If you go Shotgun+HuntingShotty or Shotgun+AA12y ou can still have a Katana along with them. Just not with AA12 and HuntingShotty, however, you can carry a Machete with them. Also, if the Dualwieldable Machete is added (which would weigh 2) you could carry that together with the AA12 + Hunting Shotty :cool: Nevertheless, you still have a single Machete available here.

but this change hurts support at later levels since grenades aren't nearly as good as they used to be and better welding is not hugely helpful.
Umm what? No? My suggestion doesn't change much for true (aka shotgun-wielding) Support Specialists at all (only you can't go AA12+Hunting Shotty+Katana anymore, that's about it).
So if i understand the core of what you are saying, you are just complaining about the Support Specialist perk in general?
 
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Level 6 Support would be able to carry all 3 shotguns.
I think that's a bit imbalanced, sadly.

You clearly didn't read the whole thing :mad:

EDIT: Besides, even if i didn't suggest changing the perk's weight bonuses as well (which you obviously didn't read) you still woudn't be able to carry them all. At level 6 at the moment you have 24 max weight. 1 is always occupied, so you only have 23 spare weight for your purchases. 7+8+9 = 24
So you wouldn't be able to either way. Which means, not only didn't you read the suggestion properly, but what you said isn't true in any single way anyhow.
 
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has TWi even done "real life" testing

... Dude... Is this a serious question? Have you any idea about the amount of fieldwork TWI have done and talked about in various interviews? Also, since KF isn't meant to be a realistic game like Red Orchestra, things like the carry weight is down to balance. The weapons animate realistically, but TWI aren't going to let realism get in the way of fair game balance for KF.
 
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You clearly didn't read the whole thing :mad:

EDIT: Besides, even if i didn't suggest changing the perk's weight bonuses as well (which you obviously didn't read) you still woudn't be able to carry them all. At level 6 at the moment you have 24 max weight. 1 is always occupied, so you only have 23 spare weight for your purchases. 7+8+9 = 24
So you wouldn't be able to either way. Which means, not only didn't you read the suggestion properly, but what you said isn't true in any single way anyhow.

I concur with this.
 
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False
If you wanna make it "unchanged" you go -1 on each weapon (7, 9, 9) and just -2 for the Support perk (since you can only carry 2 Shotguns)

Well he might be 1 lower overall but is that really a bad thing? Just means he can't take a Katana if he buys the AA-12 and HS, or a pipe bomb if he carries the Pump action and the LAW. Looks to me like it eases up the only slight wince I had at the Supports flexibility ;)

Seems a shame to ruin that nice little perk rogression table you have there for the perk progression for the sake or 1 rather useless weight block (Slightly modified)

0=15 (unchanged from how it is now)
1=16
2=17
3=18
4=19
5=20
6=21

Unless your buying a machete, in which case that weight block is totally not useless :)
 
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The LAW can currently be carried with an AA12 or Hunting Shotgun at level 6 (13+10=23, which is the exact spare weight you have @ lvl 6). With my changes, you could at max carry the LAW with the regular Shotgun.

At the begginning of the patch, i used aa12 + law but later i saw that m32 was more usefull and powerfull than the law. (and you won't blew up so fast ^^') Then for me there is no change :p

0=15 (unchanged from how it is now)
1=16
2=17
3=18
4=19
5=20
6=21

I think about it and it's the best way compare to first idea. It's useless to have +1 block with lv0.
 
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... Dude... Is this a serious question? Have you any idea about the amount of fieldwork TWI have done and talked about in various interviews? Also, since KF isn't meant to be a realistic game like Red Orchestra, things like the carry weight is down to balance. The weapons animate realistically, but TWI aren't going to let realism get in the way of fair game balance for KF.


yes, it's a serious question because I don't know, that's why I'm asking in the first place....
im still new to the forums/game, you know.
 
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