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Rough outline for -REALISM MODE-

There's no need to introduce arbitrary inaccuracy to iron sights that by all rights should be perfectly aligned

I think the list is great too.

I would observe though that 'perfectly aligned' sights in real life is something that the firer has to do - something that takes quite a bit of practice to get really good at - something that takes a little time - and something that is difficult or impossible to do when in awkward firing positions, moving, tired, or with hands shaking from adrenalin dump.

The game actually makes ironsight alignment largely automatic and very fast.

Since target-front sight-rear sight alignment is going to be near impossible to simulate in the game, adding greater sway to ironsights in general makes for a reasonable compromise.
 
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Ironsight alignment mechanic

Ironsight alignment mechanic

I agree with the last poster very much, it is something I have thought about since early RO2 days.

In real life, a short weapon such as a pistol, or SMG, is very hard to align the sights perfectly without a rest (compared to a rifle)

The ONLY game I've EVER seen which did it right, was..... KILLING FLOOR! The 9mm pistol has beautifully animated ironsights, which drift slowly into perfect alignment after first raising gun or after a shot. This would be so great to have for the weapons of RO2, while the sights arent fully aligned you're no more inaccurate than your barrel's orientation.

It might sound like being seriously handicapped after a shot, or when first aiming, but try the KF 9mm. It means if you fire while the sights aren't ready (which lasts 0.5 or something) you CAN hit stuff, just not the far away stuff! It really seems like a good simulator of aiming time.
 
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The aiming down the sight movement really has to be slower. The movements itself when you're aiming with your gun has to be slower aswell. It's just to twitchy when you aim. It doesn't look natural at all.The same thing applies to when you peek out of cover. It's to fast. To easy. Look when he aim. Look when he move around his weapon. It's really, really twitchy. Look at 0:36 when he peeks out from a corner. This is really something that has to be fixed.

I found a random video:

Red Orchestra 2 - Weapon Recoil - YouTube[/URL]
 
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Let me give you an example of something that should NEVER HAPPEN in this new fangled realism mode.


See two russians in the trenches, go up to a corner with my MG 34, wait till they are ~20 feet away, jump out and start firing. Before the third round leaves my gun they guy has gone from a crouch run to a snap IS and manages to hit me.

Sorry but thats horse****. Frankly Im tired of playing this bastard realism mode that just wants to be a real realism mode.
 
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I agree with every single point on this list besides weapon zoom.

Zoom is fine. The problem is the maps have been made unrealistically small, since if they were bigger it would lag too much. If you actually look at the few long distance maps like FallenFighters, the SMG has virtually 0 chance of hitting anything past 120m. It takes multiple single shot bursts to get a hit on target with an SMG or pistol at those ranges, and those are far from long range.

When we start seeing more maps on the scale of RO1 maps, then bolts and Zoom will really come into its own.

Zoom was introduced to avoid not being able to see stuff you could otherwise hit. The problem now is that you can see pretty much any target on any map (bar FF), so zoom just benefits classes other than rifle by making it easier to hit targets within that range, the bolt class doesn't actually get the advantage it was intended to have because the maps aren't big enough.

One suggestion I'd add to the suppression mechanic, is for suppression ion to increase fumbling/clumsiness when it comes to fine motor skills. For example unhooking a grenade from the players belt, or reloading should take slightly longer as the player is shaken up from suppression and therefore more jittery and prone to make errors. Some new animations to go with this would be good, and possibly some animations for "failed" reloads (i.e. drop the clip, jam the cocking etc)
 
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I agree with every single point on this list besides weapon zoom.

Zoom is fine. The problem is the maps have been made unrealistically small, since if they were bigger it would lag too much.

Any large size map is possible on UE3 it's just a question of optimization. The size of maps was a design decision, if you check times from spawn->obj for both attackers and defenders it's consistent on the larger and smaller maps.

The problem with zoom is it's one of many things that make RO2s firefights uninteresting. It's fine if weapons like smgs are perfectly accurate, but with added zoom everyone can play the role of marksman. I would think vassily could pull off sniping with an mp40 had he no choice of weapon but the average soldier wont have that ability.
 
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Any large size map is possible on UE3 it's just a question of optimization. The size of maps was a design decision, if you check times from spawn->obj for both attackers and defenders it's consistent on the larger and smaller maps.

The problem with zoom is it's one of many things that make RO2s firefights uninteresting. It's fine if weapons like smgs are perfectly accurate, but with added zoom everyone can play the role of marksman. I would think vassily could pull off sniping with an mp40 had he no choice of weapon but the average soldier wont have that ability.

Hmm okey let's compare the engagements in Ro 1 and ro 2.

RO 1
Bolt rifles, self-loading rifles and Assault rifle:
Effective range ~75m
Long range around 100m
Max range 150m (pixel shooting)

Bolt rifles, self-loading rifles and Assault rifle:
Effective range ~150m
Long range around 200m
Max range around 250m (pixel shooting)

You may have noticed that you can effectivly shoot enemy twice the range of that in RO 1. When TWI added maps that are the same size of Ro 1 maps, its really easy to kill each other. If this is what TWI wanted to get more medicore players to RO 2, I would say it succeeded.
But this is quite different on bigger maps as you can't hit the enemy, pavlos house is a small taste of it. In pavlos the enemy is about 200m if you stay abit back, to provide support. But what would be perfect if they where 300m+ away, that's what I am looking forwards to.
 
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I agree with every single point on this list besides weapon zoom.

Zoom is fine. The problem is the maps have been made unrealistically small, since if they were bigger it would lag too much. If you actually look at the few long distance maps like FallenFighters, the SMG has virtually 0 chance of hitting anything past 120m. It takes multiple single shot bursts to get a hit on target with an SMG or pistol at those ranges, and those are far from long range.

When we start seeing more maps on the scale of RO1 maps, then bolts and Zoom will really come into its own.

Zoom was introduced to avoid not being able to see stuff you could otherwise hit. The problem now is that you can see pretty much any target on any map (bar FF), so zoom just benefits classes other than rifle by making it easier to hit targets within that range, the bolt class doesn't actually get the advantage it was intended to have because the maps aren't big enough.

One suggestion I'd add to the suppression mechanic, is for suppression ion to increase fumbling/clumsiness when it comes to fine motor skills. For example unhooking a grenade from the players belt, or reloading should take slightly longer as the player is shaken up from suppression and therefore more jittery and prone to make errors. Some new animations to go with this would be good, and possibly some animations for "failed" reloads (i.e. drop the clip, jam the cocking etc)


I disagree regarding the zoom. I never thought of FallenFighters as a "long range" map in Ro1 unless I was MG or AT. Although I like the concept of zoom and I think it does make some firefights a little less frustrating than Ro1 - I think Darkest Hour had the perfect level of zoom. DH had LOTS of HUGE maps. The rifle engagement ranges were fantastic and the zoom felt much more natural when at closer ranges. Also, as you said, huge maps will cause performance issues so we're probably not going to see any maps as big as Darkest Hour. So I really think zoom should be reduced even if it's not a dramatic change.

I really like the idea of fumbling when suppressed.

I agree with the last poster very much, it is something I have thought about since early RO2 days.

In real life, a short weapon such as a pistol, or SMG, is very hard to align the sights perfectly without a rest (compared to a rifle)

The ONLY game I've EVER seen which did it right, was..... KILLING FLOOR!

Yes! I would LOVE to see that killing floor feel especially on the SMGs. We need some make Ro2 the successor of killing floor threads :p
 
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I have two suggestions:

1) removal of "most team points" win condition

2) also consider look and feel of weapons/soldiers. with progression, there are changes to the look/quality of your weapon and avatar. this variable needs to be set for realism mode, because it would be lame if weapons looked all new, or soldiers looked all bruised and torn. a random variable would be nice.
 
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I have two suggestions:

1) removal of "most team points" win condition

2) also consider look and feel of weapons/soldiers. with progression, there are changes to the look/quality of your weapon and avatar. this variable needs to be set for realism mode, because it would be lame if weapons looked all new, or soldiers looked all bruised and torn. a random variable would be nice.

Agreed. Random dirtiness also begs for weapon jamming: if you see you have a dirty weapon, you know you have to be careful for jams. But that's another thread I guess :eek:
 
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I have two suggestions:
(...)
2) also consider look and feel of weapons/soldiers. with progression, there are changes to the look/quality of your weapon and avatar. this variable needs to be set for realism mode, because it would be lame if weapons looked all new, or soldiers looked all bruised and torn. a random variable would be nice.
Just don't make every soldier looking like Rocky Balboa with a shiner, as they do now. :rolleyes:
 
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Weapon Zoom - Decreased effect
* As it is it's a strange conflict of realism in individuals senses and realism in a firefight scenario. I feel though the science behind it as the devs have shown is solid enough. However it detracts from gameplay when everyone is playing the part of the marksman, including the assault classes.
HELL NO.
The problem is default RO2 maps are all very short ranged. If anything, there's not enough zoom.
Play Ogledow. You'll change your mind. In that map you practically need a scope to engage effectively at 300m. In real life it's not hard at all to hit a target at 500m.
 
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actually on ogledow I was able to rather easily pull off some 160 - 202 M shots & kills. Beyond that though there is still the map fog of war. I would like to see a map made just as a test with a 1KM range, and *NO* fog of war to test how difficult it is to actually see and shoot at those ranges without some arbitrary view distance limiter.
 
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actually on ogledow I was able to rather easily pull off some 160 - 202 M shots & kills. Beyond that though there is still the map fog of war. I would like to see a map made just as a test with a 1KM range, and *NO* fog of war to test how difficult it is to actually see and shoot at those ranges without some arbitrary view distance limiter.
my personal record on ogledow is around 350m with a scope, I only saw his silhouette. I also got around 220m unscoped (PTRS).
But really, the problem with zoom is that many players that come from less realistic FPS games or RO1 aren't used to it. Combine that with very small maps, and people think the problem is with the zoom. I'm an Arma 2 player, and I think the zoom is vital. If there were more maps that allow for more proper engagement ranges people would change their minds.
 
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my personal record on ogledow is around 350m with a scope, I only saw his silhouette. I also got around 220m unscoped (PTRS).
But really, the problem with zoom is that many players that come from less realistic FPS games or RO1 aren't used to it. Combine that with very small maps, and people think the problem is with the zoom. I'm an Arma 2 player, and I think the zoom is vital. If there were more maps that allow for more proper engagement ranges people would change their minds.


Yep, its a feature that doesnt mesh well with shoe box sized maps. Seeing as how fun it was to play ogledow, I cant wait for the re release of berezinia..
 
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