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MP40 isn't OP

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#61
Vesper11 said:
I dont have a pocket rifleman or time to wait for it to come to me and kill the enemy (or get itself killed, so I'll have to wait for another one). And another question, why the PPSh is the only weapon that is only useful at short ranges? Bolts are more useful in CQC than PPSh at medium-long range.
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Why are you moving out to areas where you can engage in long range combat without two or three riflemen?

Bolts can be usable at close range, but it is far from ideal. Currently their greatest ability at close range comes from bugs, like our hobnailed ninjas with bayonets that can kill half your team behind you without you hearing a sound.

I haven't leveled up my PPSh much, if at all, and I have no issues shooting guns outward of 60m. And I can easily slaughter anyone indoors with close combat. Last night I actually took down 6 riflemen in the space for a few seconds and four bursts of fire.

It is highly effective, even without leveling.
 
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#64
Luckless said:
Why are you moving out to areas where you can engage in long range combat without two or three riflemen?
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Flanking. And its usually medium range, even there PPSh has problems.
Bolts can be usable at close range, but it is far from ideal. Currently their greatest ability at close range comes from bugs, like our hobnailed ninjas with bayonets that can kill half your team behind you without you hearing a sound.
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Thats why I prefer mosin with bayo to PPSh. I'm more effective with it and if I have a chance to shoot some guy at a distance, I this chance, with PPSh its (usually) a waste of time.
I haven't leveled up my PPSh much, if at all, and I have no issues shooting guns outward of 60m.
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Then you are The Great PPSh Mastah, because me (and my friends) cant do it as easily.

It is highly effective, even without leveling.
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But not as high as MP-40 w/o leveling, or any other gun in RO2.
 
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#66
Vesper11 said:
Then you are The Great PPSh Mastah, because me (and my friends) cant do it as easily.
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50m+ with the ppsh is easy if you use controlled burst, usually just tapping the fire button is all you need to do. compared to the mp40 it is hard and requires a bit of player skill but the weapon is still effective up to 100m once you get the hang of it. my personnel best kill with the ppsh was 163m

The mp40 does need a nerf but it has it's flaws too unlike the PPSH the MP40 recoils a lot horizontally making the sight 'shake' which IMO is a lot worse than it kicking up vertically as adjusting for vertical recoil is quite easy.

a good ppsh tip is to crouch, if you need to be accurate crouch for god sakes crouch, prone is good too ofcourse but don't stand it increases the recoil dramatically.
 
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#67
Vesper11 said:
Flanking. And its usually medium range, even there PPSh has problems.
Thats why I prefer mosin with bayo to PPSh. I'm more effective with it and if I have a chance to shoot some guy at a distance, I this chance, with PPSh its (usually) a waste of time.
Then you are The Great PPSh Mastah, because me (and my friends) cant do it as easily.

But not as high as MP-40 w/o leveling, or any other gun in RO2.
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What exactly is Medium Range? Around 60m is still fairly easy to land accurate hits. Take time to AIM, a let fly two or three bullets. Aim again, let fly another few. If your target isn't dead, you're not aiming.

And you agree that you are more effective with the mosin (for close in ability) due to audio Bugs that allow you to exploit player's lack of situational awareness? If the audio was working correctly, 9 times out of 10 most of my bayonet charges would likely fail because (Hopefully) the guy would hear something behind, (Me running/sticking a bayonet through his buddy's ribs) turn around, and shoot me in the chest.

I've used the MP-40 more than the PPSh, and honestly do far better with the PPSh. The MP-40 doesn't have as nice of a close in effect. Sure it might do better in the medium-long ranges, but a rifle will still do far better.


No matter how you want to slice it the PPSh is perfectly effective in the beginning without any unlocks/levelups.
 
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#68
Kerc Kasha said:
50m+ with the ppsh is easy if you use controlled burst, usually just tapping the fire button is all you need to do.
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I always shoot like that at medium (~80m) ranges but enemy often gets a few wound and continues running where he wants, MP-40 is super effective at those ranges.
Luckless said:
And you agree that you are more effective with the mosin (for close in ability) due to audio Bugs that allow you to exploit player's lack of situational awareness? If the audio was working correctly, 9 times out of 10 most of my bayonet charges would likely fail because (Hopefully) the guy would hear something behind, (Me running/sticking a bayonet through his buddy's ribs) turn around, and shoot me in the chest.
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Actually its not the sound bug that helps, its ghost bullets/F uped bullet registration. I can bayo while sprinting and often I can kill an assault in a room with him seeing me. And audio bug isnt that bad, if I can get behind someone I can use mosin (and I do if the target is prone, and sometimes if crouching (invulnerability to melee, meh)) and most people wont cant tell a difference between mosin and kar98. Also, considering the speed of sprinting bayo maniac its not like you'll have enough time even if you hear footsteps. The deal here is that bayo maniac is always on move as it gives protection as its much harder to hit a moving target, it allows to get away from enemy if followed, it also allows to flank faster than enemy can expect and ofc you need to be fast to get into melee range. Often I meet people who sprint towards me and they dont have time (delay after sprinting) to aim or even fire while I can, simply, stab them.

I've used the MP-40 more than the PPSh, and honestly do far better with the PPSh. The MP-40 doesn't have as nice of a close in effect. Sure it might do better in the medium-long ranges, but a rifle will still do far better.
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If you can manage PPSh with stuttering and immense recoil, if you can get to cover (60m) and kill a guy behind it shooting at you (with no pocket rifleman nearby) then fine, but most people I know cant do that. For them MP-40 is much more preferable. In CQC with PPSh I have to fight stuttering, recoil and move mouse if the enemy is on the move. With MP-40 I only have to move mouse and enjoy the killing.

p.s. MP-40 will give advantage as an addition gun at medium-long ranges, while it can still be as effective as PPSh at close. This matters.

edit: for the next the Monk post - my favorite weapons are bolts and machine guns, I dont want to see PPSh universal weapon, I want to see it to be on par with MP-40. Its just, how come best (other than PPS-43) SMG of WWII is far from best in game, where "ok" MP-40 seems superior to it. We have MG34 being better than DP (and thats a good thing) but PPSh just doesnt seem to be what it should be. Its effective range was 150m, MP-40 effective range was 150-200m - doest seem like there's a lot of difference, but for some (RO2) reason there is.

p.s. I found the guy TWI modeled PPSh recoil after (skip to 1:11):
Fort Nelson - PPSh-41 sub machinegun - 2ndguards.com - YouTube
p.p.s. Its much easier to find videos with people controlling full auto PPSh than those "soviet RO2 assault soldiers".
p.p.p.s. In game PPSh model has semi-auto switch, TWI should at least remove it if you cant use it until L50
 
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#69
Too many people are trying to play RO2 like any other mainstream shooter. See below....


the_Monk said:
I just wish more people didn't play the game so polarized (where they only want one faction/weapon. It's that whole modern FPS mindset I alluded to in my previous posts).

Instead of picking the weapon most appropriate for the current map area/situation many players simply pick a faction/weapon based on personal preference.

Doing that; severly limits the player's potential battlefield effectiveness and also keeps the player much more ignorant about other weapons, their potential threat as well as individual strengths really only revealed through advanced (in some cases) use.
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#70
With the MP 40 its like the avatar is compensating for the recoil but with the PPSH it is like the Devs left it up to you. Moving the mouse down while you fire the PPSH works pretty well for me, I can keep the gun on target easily. With the MP40 I really don't have compensate at all.

I find it odd there is little difference between the jumping recoil on the DP and MG34 (when prone or on a window) despite the MG34 having 400 rpm more, but a HUGE difference between the MP 40 and PPSH despite the PPSH having 400 rpm more. Hip shooting with the LMGs is basically no different, but hipshooting between the MP40 and PPSH is notably different.

I don't think the MP40 is OP, just the PPSH has been unfairly singled out for recoil.
 
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#71
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=uHV80mq8jSo#t=109s
PPS recoil in hands of soviet soldier >_<

And from the text from the video (taken from http://wguns.ru/pistoletypulemety-sorokovykh-mp40-mp41-ppsh-pps/ ):
После выстрела отдача отбрасывала назад затвор, сделанный специально массивным, чтобы погасить ее энергию и перезарядить автомат. Интересен и косой срез ствола ППШ. Это было сделано для того, чтобы пороховые газы, ударяясь о верхний выступ не давали задираться стволу.
Google translate:
After firing, the return set back the bolt, which was made ​​especially massive to reduce its energy and recharge the machine. Another interesting point was bevel cut of PPSh barrel. This was done to ensure that the powder gases, striking the upper ledge, prevented ride up of the barrel.

recoil my ***!

wokelly said:
I don't think the MP40 is OP, just the PPSH got nerfed.
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This.


People can say that one can be effective with PPSh or anything else like that but it still wont justify that obvious bull**** with recoil.

p.s. PPSH 41 - YouTube - like a butter knife (there's video with PPS in related).
p.p.s. Monk, I was saying that PPSh should be closer to what it was IRL - best WW2 SMG with effective range of 150m, but not the universal killing machie (we already have Mkb for that).
edit: And this is simply awesome:
PPS 43 Post Sample Full Auto Testing - YouTube

Can you call PPSh/PPS (one of) the best SMG of WW2 after playing RO2? And after watching these videos?

Not touching PPSh until TWI fix it. I'll stick with mosin and kar98.
 
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#72
You are not supposed to be as effective with any one weapon in RO2 as with another. The weapons in RO2 are intended for situational use not to be used based on personal preference like in any other mainstream shooter.

The most effective soldier on the RO2 battlefield finds himself changing weapons/classes sometimes based purely on where he expects to be on the current map. This of course may change as control points etc. are won/lost.

If you are suggesting that a player with the PPSH cannot be effective in ALL (or even in several vastly differing) situations then you are correct. That is how it's supposed to be. RO2 weapons are not effective/appropriate (the best choice) for each and every situation (ie. pick a weapon and use it equally well on the entire map).

In RO2 the real weapon is the player. For that player to be the most battle effective he must choose his "killing stick" wisely and choose the appropriate weapon for each situation.
 
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#74
The one hand shooting PPS and a gentleman standing and shooting PPSH drummed with short bursts are both nice video displays of reality, imho

Monk, i agree with situational, but i'm thinking it should be based more on realistic energy of the round, than unrealistic recoil. 9mm parrabellum round isnt a sniper round either :/

PPSh has effective range of around 150meters in real life not because it isnt accurate after that point, but because the bullet has much less energy by that time.

I also noticed that popping few rounds into a person with PPSh beyond 60 meters will barely even slow them down. It's as if i'm shooting them with paintball rounds... Sound is there, animation of hitting and blood splatter is there for every one of the 3 hits, and he keeps going without any problem... Though in reality i had that happen to me as well, where i'd rush into a building get shot with MP40 twice in a chest, get bleeding, stab them and patch myself up..
 
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#75
hishnik said:
Monk, i agree with situational, but i'm thinking it should be based more on realistic energy of the round, than unrealistic recoil. 9mm parrabellum round isnt a sniper round either :/

PPSh has effective range of around 150meters in real life not because it isnt accurate after that point, but because the bullet has much less energy by that time.
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I'm in complete agreement there as well.

I have also posted in the past about bullet lethality which I do believe needs some work in RO2. Exactly as you say, a rifle round at 200m should be absolutely more powerful than a 9mm round from an SMG.
 
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#76
Vesper11 said:
best WW2 SMG with effective range of 150m
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Best SMG of WW2 ? That's a pretty bold statement, and also a wrong one. I know a couple of SMGs that were better, the Finnish Soumi KP31 for one.

The main advantage that the PPSh41 had over the MP40 for example was the large capacity drum mag, whilst the MP40 was easier and more comfortable to wield with its pistol grip & foldable stock etc.

The PPSh41 was a great little SMG, but it certainly wasn't the best of the war, it lacks the accuracy and reliability of other SMGs to claim that title.
 
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#80
Unus Offa said:
Best SMG of WW2 ? That's a pretty bold statement, and also a wrong one. I know a couple of SMGs that were better, the Finnish Soumi KP31 for one.

The main advantage that the PPSh41 had over the MP40 for example was the large capacity drum mag, whilst the MP40 was easier and more comfortable to wield with its pistol grip & foldable stock etc.

The PPSh41 was a great little SMG, but it certainly wasn't the best of the war, it lacks the accuracy and reliability of other SMGs to claim that title.
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I highly doubt any other Army equipped entire regiments with SMGs. :eek:
 
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