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Why RO2 'failed'

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#21
Poerisija said:
Failed?

It sold more than RO:OST and KF combined. How is that "failed" to you?
Click to expand...

The Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising doomsayers claimed that Dragon Rising failed. Creative Director, Sion Lenton, replied and said that it was incorrect because the game sold 1.2 million copies. Sion, along with the rest of Codemasters Dev team, got high on their ''success'' and came up with a brilliant idea: Let's make the game even more accessible so more people will buy it. Let's ignore the small amount of players on this board and stretch out our hands for the big crowd, the mainstream. And then, two years later...

...they released the next installment which struggled to sell even 100,000 copies in the EU and the few people that bought it dumped it shortly after release and the game went dead. The only thing was was a little bit active was the complaints on the board. The series is now cancelled.

Why did Dragon Rising sold so well then if almost no one liked it?

Because of the name.


May be an extreme example in some ways.. but the same thing goes for RO2 - or indeed any other game - Maybe people expected something diffrent. Maybe that's the reason why they left. Maybe it wasn't fun for the cod players. Maybe it wasn't fun for the roosters. Maybe it wasn't fun for the arma community. Maybe all this will affect the sales of a potential RO3 unless something is done - very quickly - and not by modders, but by the developers of this game.
 
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#22
Pectus said:
Yet it's down to ~10% of the player base it had on launch. Less player's than Killing floor, which it outsold, clearly. I don't know if it's a failure, but it doesn't exactly scream great success either.
Click to expand...

http://steamcommunity.com/stats/RedOrchestra/achievements/

Original RO was also down to 8% of it's playerbase playing actively (IE, over 100 kills). Your point?

It's not like we pay subscriptions for TWI, they've gotten their money already.

Cyper:

Are you really saying RO2 sold well because of it's name?

Really? Honestly? You know, we're talking about Red Orchestra, the game NOBODY KNEW ABOUT.

FBOTheLiuetenant said:
The fact that Ostfront was so hard to enjoy is why we loved it. It allowed us to join the Elitist Prick Club!
Click to expand...


Elitist Prick Club was the gang that picked on me when I was expressing concerns about Recon Planes, Unlocks and stats tracking when RO2 was in development. I'm glad they got what they deserved, honestly. Even if I have to suffer from recon plane, MKB and stats tracking.
 
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#23
Poerisija said:
http://steamcommunity.com/stats/RedOrchestra/achievements/

Original RO was also down to 8% of it's playerbase playing actively (IE, over 100 kills). Your point?

It's not like we pay subscriptions for TWI, they've gotten their money already.
Click to expand...
Of course RO1 had low player numbers for much of its life, but I played RO1 basically on release and we didn't see this dramatic of a drop in player numbers even back then.

And even when numbers did drop, at least that small player base was genuinely happy with the game and loyal to its niche but unique style of play. These days I go on servers to play occasionally and everyone's constantly *****ing about its mechanics -- something that I find rather amusing to say the least.

I used to complain alot in-game during beta testing and such to discuss issues, but I don't do that these days when I play because there's no point and I don't play very often. I find it humorous that people who ARE playing this game nearly every day complain constantly about it. I'm not quite sure why they play, to be honest ...
 
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#26
Poerisija said:
Failed?

It sold more than RO:OST and KF combined. How is that "failed" to you?
Click to expand...

For the simple reason that so many people bought it, yet so few of them desire to play it.

With the right sales pitch, you can sell just about anything once, but only happy customers come back.
The real impact of Ro2:HoS won't be apparent untill TWI tries to sell their next game, that's when the reputation they have build with this launch comes home to roost..
 
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#27
The Beast (nl) said:
Don`t you have malware on your pc???

I have no complains about what you have wrote.
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You're just keeping the game above 60fps. After September 21st patch it hasn't worked correctly below that, before the patch mouse still felt fine and non-floaty at 40fps.

And for microstuttering the stars have aligned right and you are one of the few that dont get it.
 
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#28
Poerisija said:
[url]http://steamcommunity.com/stats/RedOrchestra/achievements/[/URL]

Original RO was also down to 8% of it's playerbase playing actively (IE, over 100 kills). Your point?
Click to expand...

The original RO is 5 years old, RO2 is not more than 3 months. The difference should be obvious. I got RO1 shortly after release, the decline in players was gradual and I could still find lots of filled 64 player servers several months after release. RO2s population has decline rapidly in comparison. People may be overplaying certain reasons for the rapid decline in population, but this is not a typical thing or something can be brushed off.

It's not like we pay subscriptions for TWI, they've gotten their money already.
Click to expand...

The qestion is will people pay them for more games in the future? I doubt many people will line up for RO3 after this release. The long time players feel betrayed, and the first timers obviously did not take to the game given the population decline.
 
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#30
Im not sure why people still cant play the game smoothly. I use onboard sound and my machine since the latest patches to remove the sound related stutter has performed very nice, it is always at least 60 fps, usually over 100 with everything jacked up but shadows high instead of ultra. (looks the same to me, but performs much better)

As for the gameplay, i play ro2 because there is no better ww2 experience. I used to think DOD was the sh1t, and it was fun til valve ruined it with source. I thought ro1 was fun too, but ro2 is what i always assumed to be a good successor to it. It still feels great, good mechanics, and graphics are good. The only thing ro2 is missing is the sheer content of ro1.

Most of the arguments i keep reading here usually dont make much sense outside just wanting to bash. There is nothing wrong with the game's mechanics, and its been said time and again that ro1's mechanics were just as stupid, sometimes much worse. People appear to have taken terrible gameplay to heart and when gameplay is made better, people take offense to it.

And about the unlock system... What the heck? you people whine like a lv 1 gun cant kill a lv 50 or whatever. I only have mg leveled, and i have absolutely zero issue with any other gun in the game. Some of you people probably are just terrible at fps period. The game does it perfectly, small upgrades to give you something to play with to keep the game fresh over time.
 
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#33
Cyper said:
The Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising doomsayers claimed that Dragon Rising failed. Creative Director, Sion Lenton, replied and said that it was incorrect because the game sold 1.2 million copies. Sion, along with the rest of Codemasters Dev team, got high on their ''success'' and came up with a brilliant idea: Let's make the game even more accessible so more people will buy it. Let's ignore the small amount of players on this board and stretch out our hands for the big crowd, the mainstream. And then, two years later...

...they released the next installment which struggled to sell even 100,000 copies in the EU and the few people that bought it dumped it shortly after release and the game went dead. The only thing was was a little bit active was the complaints on the board. The series is now cancelled.

Why did Dragon Rising sold so well then if almost no one liked it?

Because of the name.


May be an extreme example in some ways.. but the same thing goes for RO2 - or indeed any other game - Maybe people expected something diffrent. Maybe that's the reason why they left. Maybe it wasn't fun for the cod players. Maybe it wasn't fun for the roosters. Maybe it wasn't fun for the arma community. Maybe all this will affect the sales of a potential RO3 unless something is done - very quickly - and not by modders, but by the developers of this game.
Click to expand...


This is a good way to put it. Or you could say that after the overall general disappointment of ROHOS, "Once bitten, twice shy." A lot of people bought the game prerelease on the high hopes of it being a good game, but for most its just ho-hum. Good initial sales only means that, that there was a good initial sales and doesn't mean that players actually like the game. The current number of active players this soon after release speaks mostly to that.

If I were to take an educated guess, if an RO3 were to be released in the future, the sales for the game would be much lower like in the Dragon Rising example above. Why doesn't really need an explanation.

I still play occasionally, I really want to like it and sometimes I do, but the game still doesn't feel 'right'. Its better after the last big patch for sure, but still not 'right'

The server browser is the only real bug that I have that bothers me, its the gameplay decisions that bother me, and they bother me more and more as time goes on.
 
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#34
Poerisija said:
[url]http://steamcommunity.com/stats/RedOrchestra/achievements/[/URL]

Original RO was also down to 8% of it's playerbase playing actively (IE, over 100 kills). Your point?

It's not like we pay subscriptions for TWI, they've gotten their money already.

Cyper:

Are you really saying RO2 sold well because of it's name?

Really? Honestly? You know, we're talking about Red Orchestra, the game NOBODY KNEW ABOUT.




Elitist Prick Club was the gang that picked on me when I was expressing concerns about Recon Planes, Unlocks and stats tracking when RO2 was in development. I'm glad they got what they deserved, honestly. Even if I have to suffer from recon plane, MKB and stats tracking.
Click to expand...


How do you get taht 100 kills means active players? I have no idea how many kills I ever got on RO. Active players to me means that I can find an active server with decent teammates at any time of day, and RO still has that.
 
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#35
Raneman said:
RO2 tried to broaden it's playerbase a bit.

It's game design is much more fast-paced, there's some unlocks and ****, and it's a bit easier to figure out how you died. Nothing wrong with this so far, if they did it right.

This really attracted some mainstream gamers. The niche bought it because it was Red Orchestra. So, I supposed they succeeded for a little while.

Here's where it failed: it was too realistic for the mainstream crowd. Oops, there goes all the new players. And the features we put in for those new players were too unrealistic and not in the RO spirit for old players. Oops, there goes all the veterans.

Who is left?

Hopefully Tripwire has learned their lesson and realized your game can get popular without turning it into something that it's not. Just look at the ARMA series, which is more popular then RO despite being even more brutal and realistic.

Lesson learned, guess we'll have to wait a few years for RO3.
Click to expand...

Anyone that pans this post is terribly good at lying to themselves. I , just like all Vets was hoping for an update to RO1. However what we got was a pile of dog crap. yes i still play it from time to time but its a complete snore fest. The poster above was correct on his theory of letting to different type of gamers down. Vets and Noobs to the series. I believe it can all be figured out by the community and the release of a fully working SDK. However again i buy a beta game that has to be figured out "FOR FREE" by the community. I still respect TWI for being a small mod gaming company , but come on !!
 
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#37
Poerisija said:
[url]http://steamcommunity.com/stats/RedOrchestra/achievements/[/URL]

Cyper:

Are you really saying RO2 sold well because of it's name?

Really? Honestly? You know, we're talking about Red Orchestra, the game NOBODY KNEW ABOUT.
Click to expand...

You were asking how RO2 could be seen as a failure implying that it sold more than RO OST and KF combined. I gave a very clear answer to that: Because of the name. Not because people in general were happy about the game (hence the huge player drops), and in that case, RO2 was a failure, because there's a risk that RO2 may affect the sales of any future RO game in a negative fasion. If you do not understand completely why read my post about dragon rising which I used as an example.

That's the answer to your first question why RO2 in one way failed to deliver.
 
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#38
Grobut said:
For the simple reason that so many people bought it, yet so few of them desire to play it.

With the right sales pitch, you can sell just about anything once, but only happy customers come back.
The real impact of Ro2:HoS won't be apparent untill TWI tries to sell their next game, that's when the reputation they have build with this launch comes home to roost..
Click to expand...

Reputation? 200-500 disgruntled (for no real reason tbh) die-hard I-want-to-move-slow-and-be-blind fans aren't gonna do much. If something tainted TWI's rep, it was the buggy launch. Which is normal in the industry these days.

Open your eyes. You complainers are the minority on the internet, most critics said the game is fine and that's what matters.

Sales were successful and the game was liked by critics and nothing's gonna change that.
 
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#39
Poerisija said:
Reputation? 200-500 disgruntled (for no real reason tbh) die-hard I-want-to-move-slow-and-be-blind fans aren't gonna do much. If something tainted TWI's rep, it was the buggy launch. Which is normal in the industry these days.

Open your eyes. You complainers are the minority on the internet, most critics said the game is fine and that's what matters.

Sales were successful and the game was liked by critics and nothing's gonna change that.
Click to expand...

The players that bought and kept playing the game is the minority nowdays. So it doesn't really matter what the critics said in that case.
The game have lost many players and the ones who will stand tall in the end is the small amount of hundred players that are active on this board.
 
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#40
Cyper said:
The players that bought and kept playing the game is the minority nowdays. So it doesn't really matter what the critics said in that case.
The game have lost many players and the ones who will stand tall in the end is the small amount of hundred players that are active on this board.
Click to expand...

Why doesn't it? Do these players who stopped playing regularly post somewhere that they don't play anymore?

What do people look at when they're judging a company? What critics said and did the game sell. RO2 has both.
 
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