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Suggested Class: Support Gunner

lulzworthy

Member
Dec 5, 2008
7
4
We have all types of classes and weapons in this game, but I've noticed a lack of a specific type of weapon; And that is Light Machine Guns. So, I suggest a new class that plays using these types of weapons, like the M249 SAW or the M60, or the Browning M1919.

Pros:
-Large magazine size
-Can put a lot of powerful ammo downrange
-Can take care of large crowds or even hold entire areas down on his own
-Accuracy improves when crouching

Cons:
-Long reload time
-Low magazine carrying amount
-Extremely low accuracy while not shouldered

Additionally, the weapon could be mounted using it's bipod in a similar way to Red Orchestra, but that might be too clunky or useless of a game mechanic.
 
Had you bothered to search, like the stickied thread told you to, you would have seen that there is a plethora of threads exactly like this one.

While you suggested a bunch of weapons, those weapons have been suggested before.

You didn't even try to balance them, beyond a small pros vs cons list.

I can't even attempt to like it mate.
 
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If you want to test you play theory go into the modding section. Go into coding sub-section. Learn how to edit perks. Play around with the variables with commando. You can get the same game play with a few tweaks. Go further by editing the gun stats to get LMG like fire and recoil. Then post as a mutator. You will get feed back and can see for yourself if the guns your talking about bring something good to the table.
 
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The gameplay consequences of a light machine gun in KF seem pretty easy to test in a mod, just give the bullpup 100 rounds per mag.

(But then, with a high-level commando the reload time is so fast you'd barely notice.)


Anyway, the flamethrower seems to be a pretty good fit for most of the OP's criteria (even the large mag - you get over 100 shots minimum, but it's just super-easy to waste a lot of ammo)...
 
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L20 Firestarter running with 300-canister flamethrowers, with 1 second reload time.

A large magazine isn't the best option, with anywhere near reasonable damage.

Any LMG would basically play like the Bullpup, though tweaked to be an actual LMG.

So it wouldm't really bring anything new to the table.
 
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Had you bothered to search, like the stickied thread told you to, you would have seen that there is a plethora of threads exactly like this one.

I relied on the feature that auto-searches the forum for similar threads, which turned up nothing relating to my suggestion, my mistake.
You didn't even try to balance them, beyond a small pros vs cons list.

I can't even attempt to like it mate.
Thread was written in roughly 5 minutes, my fault entirely (again) for not providing more details.
I can honestly say I would cry to sleep every night for a week if LMGs were added to KF. There's just something kinda pure about weapons that require actual skill to use that I would be heartbroken to see ruined :)

"Hur dur skilless wepon u newb"
I'm sick of you children attempting to create arguments centered around something that doesn't even really exist.

I thought the whole point of such a class was to lay down suppressing fire, which doesn't really apply to enemies that don't realise that gunfire is dangerous...
Excellent point, yes, LMG's are designed to lay down suppressive fire. However, as you noted, that doesn't particularly work in KF, so I think you can deduce the purpose of the weapon/class in the game world.

L20 Firestarter running with 300-canister flamethrowers, with 1 second reload time.
The real problem is how the flamethrower creates such a large disturbance, making it extremely difficult for other members of the squad to see, both for aiming and actually seeing what is alive and what isn't. Honestly, there isn't much use for a pyro unless he's holding down an entirely separate hallway from the rest of the squad or running and gunning on his own.

I think support gunner should have an ability to share magazines with other teammates, even if it would be 1-2 mags max in one wave, this would be pretty handy at some times.
Most LMG's don't use magazines (the M249 has the ability to use M16/M4 magazines, but that's not really relevant), they use linked ammunition. I thought that would be more of a role for the support specialist.

Damn right I am. :)

If I wanted a class where I could just hold M1 until everything is dead then I'll play Firebug on Beginner thankyou :rolleyes:
Then don't play that class. What is wrong with you CS:S kiddies and "skill"? It's frustrating trying to talk about things when you idiots pop up and troll around with preposterously stupid arguments for gaming ideologies that don't even exist. "o u cnt aim no skil!" isn't an argument. It makes you look stupid, that's it.

Anyway, I'm not too concerned with the idea becoming a reality. I really think it'd be neat and add a bit more to the weapon diversity and another supporting role, and that it would be really neat to be added to the game, but you may be right in that it wouldn't really bring anything new to the table, and may not be worth the effort or resources. Just a suggestion is all.
 
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If I wanted a class where I could just hold M1 until everything is dead then I'll play Firebug on Beginner thankyou :rolleyes:
I think they spawn slowly enough that you'll still have to know when to stop so you don't run out of ammo.

Sorta like those casual Flash games where there's only one control and it's a matter of when and how long you push it... (which can be fiendishly difficult depending on the game!)
 
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Damn right I am. :)

If I wanted a class where I could just hold M1 until everything is dead then I'll play Firebug on Beginner thankyou :rolleyes:

Well, as much as I am not so big on the whole "skill" thing, Jester has a point in that every perk has to have various challenges and a certain depth to be truly fun and balanced. Having a perk where you press M1 and all dies would be invigorating for all of 10 seconds before you realize that it is utterly pointless. Seriously, a gun devoted to spary-'n'-pray could be nice, but an entire perk? I'm with Jester, and being a little suspicious. Perhaps when Netsky's mod comes out, we can see for ourselves.:D
 
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I relied on the feature that auto-searches the forum for similar threads, which turned up nothing relating to my suggestion, my mistake.

No comment

Thread was written in roughly 5 minutes, my fault entirely (again) for not providing more details.

Suggestions should be nearly all inclusive. Otherwise, no comment.


"Hur dur skilless wepon u newb"
I'm sick of you children attempting to create arguments centered around something that doesn't even really exist.

Agreed. This whole "I am skilled because I can push a mouse button faster than you" argument needs to die.


Excellent point, yes, LMG's are designed to lay down suppressive fire. However, as you noted, that doesn't particularly work in KF, so I think you can deduce the purpose of the weapon/class in the game world.

This is where the "Call of Duty Info Heroing" needs to stop. If you all have done nothing more than fire a lmg in a game then you have absolutely little right to speak of it as if you know its real life usage.

Plus I would hope living creatures would react to a wall of noisy high speed projectiles were fired at them. Video game or not.

While I would find such a perk interesting, it would serve the same purpose as a commando: clearing trash mobs. There are already 3 perks dedicated to this. Cool idea, but kind of redundant. Needs to be worked on.


The real problem is how the flamethrower creates such a large disturbance, making it extremely difficult for other members of the squad to see, both for aiming and actually seeing what is alive and what isn't. Honestly, there isn't much use for a pyro unless he's holding down an entirely separate hallway from the rest of the squad or running and gunning on his own.

Only people that need to play nothing higher than beginner complain about the "flame disturbances". I've not heard a single complaint otherwise (from anyone, including SHARPSHOOTERS) in every single game when I have played firebug (hard and suicidal).


Most LMG's don't use magazines (the M249 has the ability to use M16/M4 magazines, but that's not really relevant), they use linked ammunition. I thought that would be more of a role for the support specialist.

This player was obviously trying to give your suggested class some sort of unique ability. Again, the call of duty info heroing needs to stop. The average civilian knows not the difference between a magazine and a clip, let alone the fact that the SAW can use both linked and magazined 5.56 rounds (anyone with REAL WORLD knowledge would know that a SAW jams like a mother f-er using m-16 magazines anyway).


Then don't play that class. What is wrong with you CS:S kiddies and "skill"? It's frustrating trying to talk about things when you idiots pop up and troll around with preposterously stupid arguments for gaming ideologies that don't even exist. "o u cnt aim no skil!" isn't an argument. It makes you look stupid, that's it.

Agreed. This whole "video games require skill" thing needs to be put to bed.

Anyway, I'm not too concerned with the idea becoming a reality. I really think it'd be neat and add a bit more to the weapon diversity and another supporting role, and that it would be really neat to be added to the game, but you may be right in that it wouldn't really bring anything new to the table, and may not be worth the effort or resources. Just a suggestion is all.

If you don't really care if it is brought to fruition, why did you even suggest it anyway? I agree it would be fun. But isn't the whole idea behind suggestions is to bring something new/unique/previously unthought of to the table? Your train of thought is incoherent here.
 
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This is where the "Call of Duty Info Heroing" needs to stop. If you all have done nothing more than fire a lmg in a game then you have absolutely little right to speak of it as if you know its real life usage.

So you're saying that if a person hasn't fired a type of weapon, that they can't talk about the weapon in question? Guess I can't speak about assault rifles, automatic pistols, double-barreled or over-under shotguns, muzzleloaders, turreted machine guns, sniper rifles, fragmentation grenades, or submachine guns. This part of your post is absurd.

Plus I would hope living creatures would react to a wall of noisy high speed projectiles were fired at them. Video game or not.
The creatures in Killing Floor are largely emotionless, fearless, raging monsters that are totally unafraid of death or injury.

This player was obviously trying to give your suggested class some sort of unique ability. Again, the call of duty info heroing needs to stop. The average civilian knows not the difference between a magazine and a clip, let alone the fact that the SAW can use both linked and magazined 5.56 rounds (anyone with REAL WORLD knowledge would know that a SAW jams like a mother f-er using m-16 magazines anyway).
I don't understand what "info heroing" means, but I assume you mean that you think I get all of my firearms knowledge from Call of Duty, which is a dumb insinuation considering I'm not talking about how an "M16 is totally a burst-fire weapon". Yes, it's true that most civilians don't know the difference between a magazine and a clip, or that the SAW can utilize either of those, but I'm not sure how that's relevant.

It's true that my knowledge regarding LMG's is rather limited, seeing as I've never seen nor used one, but I understand their function and basic operation - laying down a blanket of suppressive fire (you don't give a squad member an inaccurate ammo-eating machine gun to someone who's precision shooting). You followed your argument with something extremely snarky and arrogant, which was entirely unnecessary; the information is irrelevant, and the way you put that forward was as if you were telling me off like I should absolutely know everything about the M249 SAW, which is ridiculous and insulting. I put forward the SAW as an example because it's one of the few Squad LMG's I know of aside from the Vietnam-era M60 and a few WWII-era LMG's (protip: I'm not a belt-fed LMG expert).

If you don't really care if it is brought to fruition, why did you even suggest it anyway? I agree it would be fun. But isn't the whole idea behind suggestions is to bring something new/unique/previously unthought of to the table? Your train of thought is incoherent here.
Being passive about an idea becoming reality is not a reason to not put forward an idea. Yes, I suppose that is partially the idea, the other reason would be to see what the community would like to see, original or not. My train of thought is absolutely coherent.
 
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Then don't play that class. What is wrong with you CS:S kiddies and "skill"? It's frustrating trying to talk about things when you idiots pop up and troll around with preposterously stupid arguments for gaming ideologies that don't even exist. "o u cnt aim no skil!" isn't an argument. It makes you look stupid, that's it.

Agreed. This whole "video games require skill" thing needs to be put to bed.

Ok, clearly we want a more in depth answer. So here we go. I'm going to answer this with a simple fact about gaming. Skip the SPoiler if you don't want to know exactly why stuff like this Erks us so much.

Spoiler!


So firstly I'm going to say... don't play Killing Floor if you want a game that doesn't require skill. This game started as a mod for hardcore gamers, and was taken on by TWI, hardcore gamers themselves who made Red Orchestra, another game for hardcore gamers. Why should serious gamers have to give up one of the few games made for them for casual gamers who already have choice up the arse? Just like you have your opinion on what games should be, we have ours, and we don't want to see our favourite game ruined.

Secondly onto my arguement against the Light Machine Gun. This game is about horror. Being scared comes from a feeling of helplessness. Seeing a fleshpound while your not ready for it, and panicing trying to kill it before it kills you, or getting grabbed by a clot while a Scrake is bearing down on you really is what makes Killing Floor such an Expereince.

Light Machine Guns are meant to be mounted on a tripod for stability and is designed to mow down incoming enemies with great efficiency. If you bring in a weapon that can turn everything into mince meat you destroy the terror of the game. It might be in Red Orchestra, but both teams are equally limited in their number and you are playing against humans, not AI, let alone a zombie AI. Zombies can't flank, use teamwork or out maneouvuer an LMG.

Put a litlte bit simpler, there is NO WAY this gun couldn't be overpowered without it being ridiculous.

So there is your intellectual arguement, I didn't feel like typing this all out, but since my point was apparantly non existant I've explained it in greater detail..

I hope now you can see why I feel so strongly against LMG's of all descriptions.
 
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