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Bren Gun - How can it work? If it can, Yes or No?

Bren Gun - How can it work? If it can, Yes or No?

  • Yes

    Votes: 68 81.0%
  • No

    Votes: 16 19.0%

  • Total voters
    84

C_Gibby

Grizzled Veteran
Jan 18, 2010
7,193
2,714
The British Bren light machine gun, designed and put to use by the British Armed Forces in 1935 and still kept in the country to this day. This LMG was used throughout the Second World War, the Malayan emergency, the Korean War, the Chinese civil war, the Suez crisis, the Congo crisis, anti-guerrila operations in Indonesia, the Gulf war, "The Troubles" in Northern Ireland, the Mau Mau uprising, the Arab-Isareli war, Sino-Indian war and the Indo-Pakistan wars.

YouTube - Shooting the British Bren MkII light machine gun

Nice, isn't it?

  • The Good: It's a British weapon, there's plenty of them kept in the UK to this day so it would make perfect sense to make use of this fact in the unique setting that Killing Floor offers, which is in England. If I remember correctly, the last FPS to be set in london was Resistance: Fall of Man and that used super-high-tech American and Alien weapons throughout the game. The unique setting was hardly put to use, so we have plenty of chance to say something about it with KF and make it even more unique.
  • The Bad: It's yet another weapon suggestion and that requires work and people willing to work on it; it's been said often that KF has too many weapons and no room for any more, or does it?
  • The Ugly: It's a LMG. People have been asking for an LMG mainly for the feel of it and the role it carries, while the others say "no" because of the huge magazine capacity and the fire rate and the camping it encourages. If you look at the short video and how its use is demonstrated in both a mounted position and hipfiring, perhaps you can understand how the design of the Bren Gun could satisfy both sides of the argument.
The main purpose of this weapon is to bring in a little of what is wanted from many people: A LMG-style weapon, one not shown in KF at all and overall "Britishness" something that ironically, Killing Floor lacks and the small amount it actually has is shown mainly by the "London's Finest" characters, KF-Westlondon and the bullpup.

Compared to the bullpup, the Bren Gun is a highly iconic piece of British weaponry, standing with the Sterling and Lee-Enfield rifle. (To be honest all these weapons should be put in someday, or even already, in place of Incendiary M10 and M14, but I'm here to talk about the Bren Gun.)

Now how can this weapon be implemented and balanced? It's an LMG after all, and if we were using some compact belt-fed LMG like the M249 SAW, it'd be like performing heart surgery, except for the fact we're working on game balance. Instead, we're using a rather large magazine-fed LMG - the Bren Gun.

First off, we wanna talk about how the typical idea for the LMG looks at how it is held and used. Most people say that it should be deployed on a tripod, but the argument against it is that it can lead to an extreme campfest and will require a lot of dev work on making this brand new function. The other alternative is to say that it can be held like any other commando assault rifle and spammed. This is still disliked because the weapon itself will be overpowered (or plain useless if recoil is included) and people can say "Oh, I want to see a belt-fed M249 SAW in game" and while they refuse to back down on this, they're given the option of making the capacity of the weapon small, but since the weapon is belt-fed, logically it should have 100 rounds or above. Now look again at how the Bren Gun's ammo is fed into it. It's a pretty average magazine loaded with .303 British rounds.

Now lets talk about the Bren Gun's handling.

YouTube - MG34

Look at the beginning part of the video (no need to see more).

If you've played Red Orchestra: Ostfront 41-44, you may have used the MG34 machine gun. It can be hipfired or deployed. For the sake of the LMG's previous arguments, the Bren won't be deployed.

The MG34 can be held in a non-firing position where the player can move at normal speed and can then press the "aim" button and then be reduced to walking speed with the barrel pointed forwards (the walking speed function already exists in KF, take heed, devs/modders). RO's gun can't be aimed at all when standing. We should do the same thing with the Bren Gun in KF. The Bren-User can't run around and shoot quickly, nor can s/he camp in one spot and take potshots.

Now the next thing is the stats of the gun. The original proposed idea of the LMG is to fire at the realistic fire rate, with high recoil, a little more damage than the SCAR (more acheivable with the recent nerf) and with at least 100 rounds of ammo as the base stat. The answer has always been "no."

My proposition for the Bren is to give it 40 rounds per mag base, which is then extended to 50 by a level 5/6 commando to give it a greater feeling of a heavy weapon than an assault rifle. The fire rate should be slower than the AK (the slowest commando weapon, correct me if I'm wrong) and there should be SCAR-like recoil accompanied with a screen-shaking effect to give both the effect of a powerful and frickin' badass weapon. The damage should be just a little more than the SCAR, which is more sensible when you look at the recent nerf, or it could be the same as the SCAR pre-nerf which becomes a little more desirable with the lack of mobility, the inability to properly aim, the weight of the gun (10 blocks, like the flamethrower and the old crossbow) and the slower fire-rate.

You can imagine the fire rate to be like this gun:

YouTube - Russian Maxim 1910 machine gun

It's slower than a modern assault rifle and it's as if the slower fire rate compensates for a powerful round.

Here's a summary for those too lazy to read:


  • Makes the British gun-huggers finally pleased.
  • Makes the LMG-huggers finally shut up.
  • 40 rounds base, 50 rounds max.
  • Not sure on no. of magazines. Should be big enough to still remain desirable.
  • Slightly more powerful than the current SCAR, or could be same as pre-nerf SCAR. (Consider perk!)
  • Player can hold the weapon in a lowered position and move at normal run speed.
  • A "deployed" hip-fire position which gives walking speed.
  • No ironsights.
  • A relatively sluggish reload. (not too ridiculous)
  • Have the slowest fire rate of all commando weapons.
  • Weighs 10 blocks, counting as a special weapon.
  • SCAR-like recoil, accompanied with screen shake.
  • Disadvantages: Lack of mobility when firing, Slow reload, Slow fire rate, High weight.
  • Price has yet to be discussed. How about the same price as the AA12?

Final question:

Will it be fun?

YouTube - Bren gun scene from Lock Stock & Two Smoking Barrels

You decide. :rolleyes:

So what does everyone think? If there's anything anyone would like to add/change, post away!

EDIT: If you vote "no" please state your reason why. Let's see if we can both take your opinion and change the suggestion a little so you can be poked in the direction to a "yes." :)
 
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The proposed sling to run/unsling to shoot sounds a lot like the LAW mechanic. I think this is a neat idea that would add another element to KF.

Exactly. And the Britishness of the Bren would go rather nicely with KF, especialy since we don't have a LMG or Machine Gun in the game itself (not counting with mutators of course).

I suggest TW make several small updates periodicly to KF when possible over larger ones like the Level Up & Heavy Metal ones so people have more desire to play.
 
Upvote 0
I like it but I don't think it'd be too overpowered to make the mag hold 50 rounds base with 62/63 rounds for a lvl 6. After all, the bullpup already has a 40 round base, and that seems a bit small for any LMG. It's balanced out by having the slowest Commando-weapon reload, unlike the Pup, which has an extremely quick reload in addition to it's 40 round base.
 
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So you end up with an extremely limited weapon that excludes carrying all other commando weapons?

and isn't commando all about popping off heads at a swift pace? how the hell are you going to do that with a weapon that sprays all over the place, shakes your vision, and doesn't have ironsights?

and it comes at aa12 price?

i'm all for inserting (lmg xyz), but i don't see how i'd ever want to carry that as is over scar+ak/bullpup.

maybe it would be worth it if it had penetration?

edit: i'm entirely surprised that word is censored. seriously.
 
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and isn't commando all about popping off heads at a swift pace? how the hell are you going to do that with a weapon that sprays all over the place, shakes your vision, and doesn't have ironsights?

and it comes at aa12 price?

maybe it would be worth it if it had penetration?

Commando was initially a little more about crowd control, and now has become about versatility between sniping and crowd control and at this point, is more of a single-target perk like the sharpie. The Bren Gun can bring back its crowd-control mindset again and still allow it to keep the sniping aspects provided by the other weapons. The Bren is designed for the kind of commando that likes to give a great big punch to the masses, or even single ZEDs when they get close enough. They actually can do the same job and perform the same tasks, they're just done in a different way.

[update]

When you look at the AK and SCAR, you'd find that most people like to choose the SCAR when they're with a team that likes to hang back a bit and shoot ZEDs at range, or you could take the AK and be with a team that likes to get really close and shoot point-blank. You have the SCAR and bullpup to fill the spot of supporting a sniping team, or you can then have the AK or the gargantuan Bren Gun and fill the spot of supporting a close-combat team.

The SCAR is the more powerful sniping option, while the bullpup is the weaker, and you have only one choice for closer combat. :confused: It's time to have a second option.

See how it makes sense?

[/update]

The lack of ironsights and the spraying nature of the weapon helps commando come back into crowd control once more and also the weapon's innacuracy at long ranges (think police station - church distance in west london) is a balancing point for the weapon's raw power, in addition to the weapon's price. If you look at these points and decide that you don't like it while others do like it, good.

It goes to show that this weapon doesn't please everyone and they'd like to stay with the single-target aspects of the commando with the pup/SCAR and you have the other commandos who want to give out greater damage output to the masses through the use of the stable, hard-hitting AK or with the massive Bren Gun. It's the same thing again with LAR vs M14, Pumpy vs Hunty, etc. The new gun won't dominate the perk at all, it just gives the different feel and style that different kinds of people want, while they do the same jobs that the perk was intended for.

Penetration sounds like a great idea, but administering it will need care. :)

Edit:

But with no bipod deploying and no ironsights, how the hell are you supposed to be effective with it? Seems like you won't be able to hit anything with it assuming the same MG handling from RO is used...

The unholy recoil found in RO shouldn't be used. The only things that will come in would be SCAR-esque recoil and a slight screen shake effect. It's actually very easy to hit stuff without ironsights in KF... You just need to know where the center of your screen is. :)
 
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Upvote 0
The Bren gun can accept 100 round pan magazines, i've just found out o_O

It does have a slower fire rate, 500-520rpm as opposed to the AK47's 600rpm.

It does weigh as much as you say, at about 10kg for all marks.

It shares an ammunition commonality with the SMLE, so if that is also implemented, then their damage would be similar.


...i vote yes. :)
 
Upvote 0
Commando was initially a little more about crowd control, and now has become about versatility between sniping and crowd control and at this point, is more of a single-target perk like the sharpie

Wait, isn't Commando the worst perk for single large targets? We all know he's about clearing mobs of trash quickly. Unless you mean he's good at taking out single small zeds, in which case I would respond that ANYTHING is good at taking out single small zeds, down to and including sneezing on them really hard.
 
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...i vote yes. :)
:IS2:

Wait, isn't Commando the worst perk for single large targets? We all know he's about clearing mobs of trash quickly. Unless you mean he's good at taking out single small zeds, in which case I would respond that ANYTHING is good at taking out single small zeds, down to and including sneezing on them really hard.

He can't take single large targets, and yes, every weapon is good enough for killing off the smaller single zeds. When close combat comes along, you often find that sharpies and support specialists like to make sure they hit the most imposing and threatening targets ranging from Sirens to Husks to the Fleshie. In this kind of range, you'd find that most commandos dedicated themselves to taking out the single smaller targets and occasionally, killing the husks and sirens which they find more acheivable with the SCAR.

Also, you'll notice that most perks aim for ammo efficiency, like the Sharpie and Support. They wouldn't normally want to waste their ammo on a single crawler like that. The commando's weapons are designed for killing trash and covering a wider area with hot lead in a shorter amount of time. The commando doesn't normally need to worry too much about ammo conversation unless he decides to spray like a total nutter (e.g. one mag per clot) or decides to waste his SCAR magazine on a scrake when a sharpie pops his head off in just a couple of shots.

The Bren Gun still sits in with the crowd control, single zed and "cleanup" roles that the commandos often take. :)
 
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how about we give it to support?
tentatively would make more sense if the gun has penetration.

mainly, if i am remembering numbers right off the top of my head, all commando weapons weigh 6 blocks, meaning you would ONLY be able to use the bren gun.

i don't see how it meshes well with commando gameplay, as by the point where i need to go rock & roll full auto , the LAST thing i want to do is immobilize myself.(although i only play on normal thus far, so, :eek:)

or maybe i'm just going all :troll:
 
Upvote 0
would be good for medic.

okay, I majorly disagree here. Whenever you have a hard to classify weapon, don't randomly give it to the medic. This is heavyweight crowd control, which does not really suit the medic (last time I checked, medics healed:p)

Commando, or possibly support could have claims on this weapon, but the medic just doesn't make sense in my opinion.
 
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okay, I majorly disagree here. Whenever you have a hard to classify weapon, don't randomly give it to the medic. This is heavyweight crowd control, which does not really suit the medic (last time I checked, medics healed:p)

Commando, or possibly support could have claims on this weapon, but the medic just doesn't make sense in my opinion.

Idk. If you were to give Rambo a medical school degree, I could picture it working. :D
 
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mainly, if i am remembering numbers right off the top of my head, all commando weapons weigh 6 blocks, meaning you would ONLY be able to use the bren gun

As a perk weapon, sure. However, that is no different from some other perks. Medic only has one gun, low level Support can only carry one shotgun, and until recently Firebugs only had one weapon period. A Commando packing a Bren gun for serious sweeping and a HC or M79 would be a good combo. After all, the Commando is perhaps the best at using off-perk weapons due to the speedy reload.

That being said, I can see am argument for this being a Support weapon. My first instinct is that it would bring more to Commando though, with a noticibly different weapon.
 
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Medics are also support.

Most medics have machine gun for cover weapon.

AND LOL FOR MOAR GUNS.

guns07.jpg


ur mom is rambo :)
 
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