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another direction

another direction

  • yes please

    Votes: 24 75.0%
  • no thanks

    Votes: 8 25.0%

  • Total voters
    32
  • Poll closed .
oke, here's Version 2.0

includes:
- easy spot-able dosh
- ability to see where your looking at while in-trade
- still forgot the leave trader button
- added colour on current perk
- still no names above weapons (impossible to read)
- few changes in layout

(i was thinking of putting the "leave trader" button on the old cash spot or move the perk/perk select a little to the left and putting it in the top right corner)

Spoiler!
 
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The direction this redesign is going makes no sense. While changing the weapon list to allow for easier access to the weapons is nice, and the inclusion of few new buttons ("full ammo, no nades" and "buy with full ammo"), adding the trader view and re-arranging the weight and ammo placement makes the trader interface even harder to use than the current version.

The current view for your held weapons makes sense and allow easy access to fulling your weapons without visual clutter and arbitrary grouping (primary, special, ect.).
 
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well, it isn't perfect.
that being said, working with paint doesn't make it any easier.

the main problem i have is the bad quality of paint and the inability to make precision changes, which also explains why it looks kinda crammed.

i might re-install "gimp" and make a full screen next. which hopefully gets a better result.

but for now, don't be to harsh on it.
its still just a concept after all.
 
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You still don't have a "Sell" button, you're still using the obsolete "Primary" and "Special" weapon designations (these were Tier 1 and Tier 2 weapons respectively, but the game now has Tier 3), and you're still placing the Sharpshooter's pistol and handcannons under a blatantly misleading "All" category. You've now cut out the weapon Power, Range, and Speed information. Again, what is the point of this design? To confuse the player and make what was once a simple, efficient, and readable interface into a cramped and cluttered mess?
 
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You still don't have a "Sell" button, you're still using the obsolete "Primary" and "Special" weapon designations (these were Tier 1 and Tier 2 weapons respectively, but the game now has Tier 3), and you're still placing the Sharpshooter's pistol and handcannons under a blatantly misleading "All" category. You've now cut out the weapon Power, Range, and Speed information. Again, what is the point of this design? To confuse the player and make what was once a simple, efficient, and readable interface into a cramped and cluttered mess?


you don't seem to understand that i am not trying to REPLACE the current trading window, its STILL A CONCEPTS, TW is allowed to do whatever the hell they want with it as long as it contains some of the suggested stuff i added, it's supposed to be a guideline so they know what the community wants, so of course it might have some flaws, that's why they are there to fix it for us, right? it's not like i am a magician that can magically put the best possible version of the trade-window on paper.

also, I'm not stopping you from putting your own idea of a "good" trader window on paper.
take an example of Akame, at least he takes matter in his own hands instead of whining about every small thing that it's missing.


now on to your blabbering.

the "sell" button would be located at the same spot as the "buy" button is once you click on the item you want to sell(well duh)

I used primary and secondary because it was easier as i didn't have allot of room to use (since you obviously haven't read my rant about how crappy paint is for this kind of work)

I do not, nor will I ever, see the pistols and hand cannons as "marksman" weapons, I would much sooner label them off-hand.

about the poor quality and cramped space, i have already addressed that.
 
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you don't seem to understand...

now on to your blabbering...

Wow dude. Wow. I think that is the fastest someone has gone from "Hey, look at my work." to "You're stooopid." No reason to get that defensive.

Your "CONCEPTS" is bad. Very bad. Cramped sections. Thick borders. Weird font. Obvious resolution dependance. What happens when another weapon is added to one of the filled sections? What happens when a support loads up on more weapons than you can show? Why are some of the items red? Why are you wasting valuable real esatte with an "in-picture" of the team in the trader area?

If you are submitting your suggestions to others, you need a thicker skin.
 
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Your "CONCEPTS" is bad. Very bad. Cramped sections. Thick borders. Weird font. Obvious resolution dependance. What happens when another weapon is added to one of the filled sections? What happens when a support loads up on more weapons than you can show? Why are some of the items red? Why are you wasting valuable real esatte with an "in-picture" of the team in the trader area?
since you obviously haven't read my rant about how crappy paint is for this kind of work
That's why you should use Photoshop or Gimp... :rolleyes:
Yes, I know you said you might instal it and use it, just saying it cuz some people would go like "Gimp is better than Photoshop!" if I just wrote to you to use Photoshop ;)
 
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That's why you should use Photoshop or Gimp... :rolleyes:
Yes, I know you said you might instal it and use it, just saying it cuz some people would go like "Gimp is better than Photoshop!" if I just wrote to you to use Photoshop ;)


isn't that obvious?


and nutterbutter, i know, i just hate it when people don't read my comments and post criticism on something i have already addressed and explained. (which you are doing as well right now)

I'll say it again (in a little more detail),
Because paint is an awful program to use for these kind of tasks the window quality, sizes, placing and smaller details are completely off. in short, everything is either to big or to small and doesn't completely fit the window.
(if i were to get it to a good size the "spacing" problem would not be there)

(im allowed to rant once in a while right?)

edit: about the in-game view, people asked for it.
 
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****ing ugly mess. Absolutely terrible.
HURR JUST KIDDING.

I like the concepts.
Nutterbutter probably just needs new glasses; I had no trouble navigating it and since it's a bloody concept, border thickness, fonts and all the other pedantic crap he targetted obviously doesn't have to be finalised by this one tiny paint image. Jesus...
 
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isn't that obvious?

and nutterbutter, i know, i just hate it when people don't read my comments and post criticism on something i have already addressed and explained. (which you are doing as well right now)

I'll say it again (in a little more detail),
Because paint is an awful program to use for these kind of tasks the window quality, sizes, placing and smaller details are completely off. in short, everything is either to big or to small and doesn't completely fit the window.
(if i were to get it to a good size the "spacing" problem would not be there)

(im allowed to rant once in a while right?)

edit: about the in-game view, people asked for it.

I'll reply in a little more detail

Cramped sections. Thick borders. Weird font. Obvious resolution dependance. What happens when another weapon is added to one of the filled sections? What happens when a support loads up on more weapons than you can show? Why are some of the items red? Why are you wasting valuable real esatte with an "in-picture" of the team in the trader area?

There are a few of sayings I'm going to quote.

The first is "A poor workman blames his tools." Sure, paint sucks, however paint isn't why it is a bad design. Paint is how you are implementing the bad design. Do you honestly think if you designed the same thing in Photoshop it would be better? It /may/ look a little better, but it would still be a bad design for all of the reasons I listed. I've gone over why I thought it was a bad design. Paint didn't make the cramped sections. Paint didn't pick the weird font or the inconsistant red coloring of the words. Paint didn't try to fill every pixel with something. Whitespace is important. Rests are just as important as notes.

Read this http://developer.apple.com/library/...al/AppleHIGuidelines/XHIGIntro/XHIGIntro.html

And this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts's_law

edit: about the in-game view, people asked for it.

About the in-game view, a quote from Henry Ford "If I had asked my customers what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse."

The in-game trader view is worthless and useless.

The last quote is from me "If you are submitting your suggestions to others, you need a thicker skin."
 
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I agree that the fact a high level support can carry a lot of items needs to be addressed to and if Tripwire decide to add more weapons, there is no room for them, but what he is saying is that there isn't any room for that because he is just showing the layout, not the actual final version.

The borders and the font can be changed so easily that i'd hardly count them as a problem. Cramped sections again are there because he has to show the thing in apost, he has to make sure everything is large enough for us to see. If implemented, everything wouldn't need to be that big, allowing more whitespace (which is essential, you are quite right there) and lists to be more clearly visible and have more room.

Don't know about resolution issues, that would be up to Tripwire, I'm not a good programmer or graphical design person, whatever resoultion comes under, I'm not good in that area. Items might be red depedning on you class to show you what weapons you can buy. Maybe they're red to show that you can't afford them or don't have enough weight, who knows? It would be easy to change, or even use the old system where it just is greyed out if you can't use it.

The picture is there to show that the rest of the team is doing, it isn't a still picture. It is so that if someone leaves the trader, you can see what is going on. No one like to be left in the trader by themselves while the rest of the team has buggered off. It also doesn't help when people join late into a game, they need to be able to see what the rest of the team ar doing in terms of perks, levels and other such things.

Hopefully I've cleared up a few things and Blackfier, if this is not what you meant on anything, sorry to have confused the issue even more... :eek:
 
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I don't, of course, speak for blackfire, but I am looking at the current state of his proposal in a manner akin to a coworker "brainstorming" by sketching something out on a napkin during lunch, or a sergeant illustrating the layout of an objective by drawing in the dirt as his men huddle around. (These analogies aren't intended as criticism.) Every detail, every nuance *isn't* necessarily depicted, final or certain. I don't believe he has failed to make that very point, as early as the very first post in this thread. Nor do I believe that this readily delivered admission of incompleteness is difficult to understand, or to accept.

...About the in-game view, a quote from Henry Ford "If I had asked my customers what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse."

The in-game trader view is worthless and useless.

OK. So, if Ford had actually listened to, and followed, his customers desires, I suppose the Mustang in the old barn at my place would be standing on four horseshoes instead of four tires. Not to mention we probably wouldn't even know who Henry Ford was. Ford, however, had his own ideas and wasn't satisfied with the status quo. And, had the stones to press forward with what he thought was a better idea.

Obviously, everyone is entitled to express an opinion. And, here is mine:

*If* the presence of a real-time view in the trader screen can be provided without negatively impacting the usability of the interface overall, I simply fail to see the downside of it. Simply put, if the balance of the interface is sound, then, I feel the real-time view, at worst, can do no harm, but only serve to enhance player awareness and team cohesion.

Clearly, the game is successful and enjoyable as it stands. I'm not suggesting anyone has yet done so, but while we might all have a different definition of what constitutes "better," I don't think we should discourage serious discourse over the pursuit of that nebulous concept.
 
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The interface is very good, but a few tweak would be nice. They have other things to do, like HOS, so a redesign would be unreasonable (and unnecessary, imo).

There are some buttons that make sense, and some rearranging that would help with usability and they are included in my version of the redesign using the current trader screen as my base.
 

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How the hell did a topic as innocuous as the TRADER WINDOW get so heated?


You'd think we were talking about the State of the Sharpshooter or whether Zerker deserves a nerf.... :rolleyes:


It just goes to show that everyone's preference towards change is different. Some people (like myself) are like to constantly change things up in a quest to perfect them, some people are of the "if it ain't really broke don't fix it camp". It's all a matter of preference.
 
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dolphin, Rhenna, that was exactly what i meant.

and some comment here are starting to look more like troll than actual criticism.


akame, of course some things take priority, just wanted to break the drag of new weapon, perk and specimen idea's of late a little .. with something original(if you can call this original)


salad and aze, without a good fight a thread can't be called "important". i feel honoured to defend my lan- i mean thread.:D
(and i tend to get a little trollish when im annoyed)
 
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Items might be red depedning on you class to show you what weapons you can buy. Maybe they're red to show that you can't afford them or don't have enough weight, who knows?

Exactly. Who knows? It seemed inconsistant and that is why I asked "Why are some of the items red?" I couldn't find any consistant reason.


*If* the presence of a real-time view in the trader screen can be provided without negatively impacting the usability of the interface overall, I simply fail to see the downside of it. Simply put, if the balance of the interface is sound, then, I feel the real-time view, at worst, can do no harm, but only serve to enhance player awareness and team cohesion.

And your opinion is just as valid as mine. I think it is useless because there is so much that needs to be readily accessible that there just isn't space to spare. Adding in-game view means everything needs to be made smaller or removed. I think it is useless. You think it is useful. It is up to the person who makes the design to decide which way to go.

Clearly, the game is successful and enjoyable as it stands. I'm not suggesting anyone has yet done so, but while we might all have a different definition of what constitutes "better," I don't think we should discourage serious discourse over the pursuit of that nebulous concept.

Of course not. However, the only person I see discouraging discourse is blackfire. He simply can not accept any criticisms /at all/. Look at my first post. I asked a few questions and he went, again, instantly into defense mode. Look at his reply to Slappy http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=693720&postcount=26 and how dismissive and condescending he was in that reply. Look at his reply to me http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=693831&postcount=29 and he acts the same way.

He doesn't want criticisms.


How the hell did a topic as innocuous as the TRADER WINDOW get so heated?

Because blackfire can't handle criticisms.


and some comment here are starting to look more like troll than actual criticism.

Only because you are viewing criticisms that way. Take things less personal and try to understand that when someone says "Your design is bad" they are not criticizing you personally.
 
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Some people (like myself) are like to constantly change things up in a quest to perfect them, some people are of the "if it ain't really broke don't fix it camp".
When talking about a game that is already released, you can't expect a ton of work to be done on it. TWI's efforts so far are way ahead of nearly every other game I've played. Still though, their time to work on it isn't unlimited, so I would prefer them to spend their time on things that need attention (bugs) or adding new content (game modes, ect.), rather than trying to better things that already work. New content and smoother gameplay draw new players in, making the investment for TWI make more sense.
 
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