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German versions of violent games

Just looking for a little assistance here... THIS IS NOT A POLITICAL THREAD, ANYONE GOING OFF IN THAT DIRECTION WILL GET A KICKING...

We've noticed that L4D has been heavily cut/edited for the German market. Gears never bothered rating, while HL2 and Resident Evil 5 are both rated "Not for minors".

Can anyone with the German versions of HL2 and/or RE5 comment on what cuts (if any) were made to those?

The reason for asking the question is pretty obvious: we are assessing what we have to do to be able to sell KF "properly" in Germany. And it is very hard to find any good guidelines! A lot revolves around whether the enemies are percieved to be "human" or not. More of it revolves around the level of "unnecesary violence".

Examples please...
 
Half-Life 2 seems to be completely uncut. The burnt up bodies in the sewers where there, enemies can be cut in half via saw-blades + grav-gun and set on fire via propane canisters + grav-gun, nothing was replaced by robots and bullet marks on bodies were there too. It was also possible to kick around dead bodies with the crowbar and other weapons, which also added new bloody bullet marks. So "unnecessary violence" was intact as well.
What I do not remember is if it was possible to kill friendly humans. I don't think I ever tried that. Enemies could kill them just fine though and all the bloody details which would also occur if the player killed enemies where visible on friendly humans too.

In the orange-box version Half-Life 2 was cut though. Blood was made grey, etc. Go here for more details:
http://www.schnittberichte.com/schnittbericht.php?ID=4610#be

No idea about RE5. Sorry.
EDIT:
According to this (cites Capcom as source but has no link to it) RE5 is uncut in Germany. I can't confirm this as I don't have it, but I read on multiple independent pages that it's uncut, so maybe it really is.
http://www.xbox-liveforum.de/wbb2/thread.php?threadid=13671

EDIT: It may be of interest to you that Dead Rising (also a zombie shooter) was apparently "beschlagnahmt" (~ banned)!
 
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Can't schneidzekk just e-mail the responsible authorities and ask them? :eek:
Already done that - established contact with USK. But they will tell us about the process, but not actually hand out guidance on what is/is not acceptable. For that, you end up going back to the original laws for the "protection of young persons", which really is very generic. So then you are looking for case law on it - and I am NOT doing that in German!
 
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From what I know (I researched a little on it a few years ago for a paper on media censorship in democratic countries), there are no real guidelines or no-gos. It's a jury that decides what's appropriate and it's not very consistant.

I'd say just give the USK the uncut version and cut after an initial rating if it is deemed neccessary.
 
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For instance they have no ragdolls: interaction with dead bodies seems to be a nogo.
You can kick bodies around in Half-Life 2 and the game has exquisite rag-dolls. :)

I'd say just give the USK the uncut version and cut after an initial rating if it is deemed neccessary.
If this is possible (!) this is your second best option.

The best option for you would be to release a heavily censored German version (can be butchered down to aim at a 16+!) and then make it possible for seasoned players to circumvent the censorship and re-enable what was "cut" via an "illegal" bloodpatch or better yet make it some obscure option in an .ini somewhere so players with a bit of technical knowledge can do it themselves. You do not have to condone or support this and you don't have to tell anybody how to do it. Just make the game not check this when players join a server and don't make steam overpatch this constantly.

The casual crowd who buys games on instinct are either happy with their butchered copy (as they are happy with their orange box and their L4D) or have already paid for it when they find out and the seasoned players will find out about the blood patch and be happy.

UT2003 and UT2004 re-enabled the cut gore in one of the (international) patches. This is a little too bold, in my opinion, but as long as it can be re-enabled by, say, changing language=det to language=int in KillingFloor.ini or something similar this should be ok. Worked for other UnrealEngine games, should work for Killing Floor. Just make sure steam doesn't interfere. :p

I am not aware of the risks this could bear, but maybe someone at Epic can shed some light on this. UT2003/4 was a high profile title and they literally patched their gore back in so if this was noticed in any game it was noticed in UT2004! If Epic wasn't contacted by any authorities at the time it is probably save to assume that your little Killing Floor B-title (no offense!!!) will slip under the radar as well.
 
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But if they are no-gos you would have to take them out either way, right? If it really is as easy as giving it to them, letting them tell you what is unacceptable, removing it and then giving it to them again, what is the problem then? Does it cost money to have them examine it? Will they only examine one and the same title a set number of times? Or does it just take too long?
1. Yes, it costs money - there are fees each time.
2. Messing with the gore is less of an issue...
3. "Special" gore such as decapitation: that has special effects in the game, so how would we handle that?
4. Some weapons might be deemed "unnacceptable" - but we are not prepared to take any weapons out...

Ultimately, we can do what Epic did with Gears and simply not bother with USK. This simply means that we can't seel the game on store shelves in Germany, not can we advertise it in German publications. So the Germans who wanted to buy it would either have to buy off Steam, or buy in a copy from another country (via Amazon or whoever).
 
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But are you sure they can buy it off steam then?

3. and 4. are toughies, but if you are really determined to get the game out on the German market you might have to get rid of something :(. Chainsaws and flamethrowers are pretty iffy, dismemberment is also a topic for itself especially seeing that your enemies are so similar to humans.
You can either not try at all or you can make a fool out of yourself for getting rid of the harsh stuff and replacing it with something uncool. Specimen -> robots. Greyed out skins, red eyes and screws for gibs. Has been done before, got a moderate outcry from fans and that was it.
Another option you could do (pretty much amounts to falling back to passive aggressiveness on your part...) is to make replacements for everything that is deemed too violent in this game but make the replacements so ridiculous that it has to come across as a message. That way you don't come across as pussies that cower before the USK but as disgruntled heroes that make a stand against it. Might get some publicity just for that too!

Like making the flamethrower a cream squirter with colorful pieces of candy in the cream and replace every woshing fire-sound from it with something really squishy. No new reloading animation needed. Just make the character lower the empty weapon off-screen and have it come back up full.
Replace the chainsaw with a device that has a rotating hand with a white glove on it (like robotic machines had in old Mickey Mouse type cartoons) that can be used to turbo-slap enemies. Blood drawn from this type of attack would be colored light grey to make it look like enemies are just being dusted off.
Blown off limbs don't get blown off but get the cartoony "insta-bandage" treatment. Gameplay would be identical but it would look wacky as heck.
An eventual crowbar could become a Mary Poppins crane with a talking bird-thing on the handle that makes wacky sounds when you hit somebody with it and makes ouch-sounds when you hit solid objects.
The obvious solution for knifes would be to make them colored permanent markers and slash-wounds could look like naughty words that are written on the enemies (not too naughty though... :p).
If you have an option for full and reduced gore in the international versions you can add an additional option for wacky gore to that list which makes the game look like the German version. Kind of like the "Hippie blood" with flowers for blood and fruits for gibs in Serious Sam. It should get a laugh out of players so it wouldn't be a complete waste of time. Who knows, some people might even like it.
If your specimen blink, make your dead specimen blink too. That way they aren't killed but just dispatched...

It's a lot of work, but it might pay off with the increased publicity and because some people might buy it just to support the message against the USK if you point out that angle a bit in your marketing.
 
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I don't think you want to loose the German market, do you? :p

Because Germans love their PC games.

Decapitations and dismemberment are a no-go's I guess. I don't know how bloody Killing Floor is but you probably have/should reduce or remove the blood if it is too much.

I don't see problems with a chainsaw if there is no blood. And flamethrowers could work too if you don't have "I am burning" animations which Left 4 Dead has. Call Of Duty United Offensive had flame throwers and I think that was fine for the German version.

And the anthology version of UT2k4 is patched to the latest version and it has no gore (or only green). Also the German anthology version doesn't come with UT99! :mad:
 
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C'mon, don't do this to me ...
I didn't buy L4D because of missing gore.
So don't make me cancel my KF pre-order... ;)

Decapitations and dismemberment are a no-go's I guess. I don't know how bloody Killing Floor is but you probably have/should reduce or remove the blood if it is too much.

I wouldn't say it's a no-go. It's all about WHAT you're killing.
See Dead Space - totally uncut !
(though those Necromorphs look fairly human-like to me)
 
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