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Idea about SS.

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fengruliuyun

Grizzled Veteran
Nov 12, 2010
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People's republic of CHINA
#1
All the weapons for SS are totally screwed.New ones are needed.

In the modding area there are already a Hunting rifle released,and a M99 anti-material rifle,and a M44 bayonet.They are all in the beta version but I think they are pretty nicely done.

What is the use of sharpshooters/snipers/DMs?Take out high-threat targets at far distance.Their weapons should be powerful in 1 shot but with a low RoF.For the sake of "looking far",their weapons should be scoped.

Does LAR fit this?It's not scoped.
Does M14 fit this?It's not scoped as well.
The crossbow?Its firepower is low compared to its RoF(Imagine that you need 4 headshots to take out a FP while you hardly score 2 headshots before the FP tears you into shreads).

Why the old version SS overpowered?Cause

The Xbow:Cheap price,cheap ammo,insane damage with a RoF pretty quick,along with the penetration.

M14:Cheap ammo,RoF too quick.Fire without aim.

Note that I have not mentioned "damage too high".Reasons?Snipers are intended to be Massive damage with low reloading speed.Nerfing it by decreasing the damage can be going into the wrong way.
 
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#2
There is nothing wrong with the Xbow itself currentley.. I just hate how much ammo cost. I can take out a FP from a distance with 3 shots in a 6 man HOE. Lar can do it without raging and the M14 is (only) croud control weapon now for trash not for the big baddies. You can get away with killing them with a M14 but it works better killing them with a LAR or Xbow. Adding more guns to the game just means you dont know how to use the guns that are in the game now.

Why add more if you can't use the ones that are in place currentley??

The guns are balanced right now the only change I would like to see to SS weapons is a discount on ammo for the Xbow. Dont put a discount on buying a Xbow, but put one on buying ammo for crying out loud.:mad:
 
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#3
My suggestions:

SS Tier 1:SMLE bayonet<multiperk,with berserker>
A cheap WW2 rifle with bayonet.Not very high firepower(like the LAR) but with a bayonet for close combat.2 in 1 choice which fits both poor snipers or berserkers who need to take out husks.
It does not exist right now but can be made from M44 ideas.

SS Tier 2:Hunting rifle<or M24>
More powerful sniper rifle with moderate RoF,1 headshot anything but the scrake and FP and Patty.Scoped,bolt action,5 rounds per mag.
More expensive but affordable.
Already released as a beta mod.

SS Tier 3:M14DMR
More expensive for a higher RoF compared to tier 2.Scoped,20 rounds per mag.Good at popping heads of smaller zeds.
It does not exist right now but it doesn't need much modify from M14ebr,isn't it?

SS Tier 3:M99 AMR
Extremely expensive,slow fire rate/slow scope/huge recoil,ultimate damage.Single action,2 headshot 6 men HOE FP.
Already released as a beta mod.
 
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#4
Anubis_FB said:
There is nothing wrong with the Xbow itself currentley.. I just hate how much ammo cost. I can take out a FP from a distance with 3 shots in a 6 man HOE. Lar can do it without raging and the M14 is (only) croud control weapon now for trash not for the big baddies. You can get away with killing them with a M14 but it works better killing them with a LAR or Xbow. Adding more guns to the game just means you dont know how to use the guns that are in the game now.

Why add more if you can't use the ones that are in place currentley??

The guns are balanced right now the only change I would like to see to SS weapons is a discount on ammo for the Xbow. Dont put a discount on buying a Xbow, but put one on buying ammo for crying out loud.:mad:
Click to expand...

M14 as a crowd control weapon,for $750 and a tier 3?What's the advantage of M14 as a tier 3?No scope,slow fire rate,horrable sight,it's just awful.A scope make everything different.
 
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#5
fengruliuyun said:
M14 as a crowd control weapon,for $750 and a tier 3?What's the advantage of M14 as a tier 3?No scope,slow fire rate,horrable sight,it's just awful.A scope make everything different.
Click to expand...

Yeah a scope makes it easier, but killing things without using a scope when they have one is bragging rights.. :p

As for my post I am reffering to no changes to the guns. They are balanced the way they are. The M14 is nothing more than a CC gun now. Its only use is for clots, crawlers, gorefasts, stalkers, bloats, husks, and sirens. Shoot a scrake or FP and you dead. The hard headed bonus they get is to high for the m14 to get through. It will rage it and you will die. The lar for some reason will not rage it, if you have a time span between shots.
 
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#7
fengruliuyun said:
What is the use of sharpshooters/snipers/DMs?Take out high-threat targets at far distance.Their weapons should be powerful in 1 shot but with a low RoF.For the sake of "looking far",their weapons should be scoped.
Click to expand...
This is only what you think and it's all wrong.

And what on earth is a DM?

fengruliuyun said:
The Xbow:Cheap price,cheap ammo,insane damage with a RoF pretty quick,along with the penetration.
Click to expand...
HAHA; quick rate of fire, insane damage, cheap ammo, cheap price AND high penetration?!
Why don't you just suggest a mega ultra laser railgun to replace it?


All in all, this is pretty weak bro.
 
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#8
Sammers said:
And what on earth is a DM?
Click to expand...

Designated Marksman, typically some sort of infantry soldier with a more accurate version of the average assault rifle to assist in engaging targets outside of the usual range but still fighting alongside the rest of squad. They are intended to fill the gap between snipers (who usually operate relatively autonomously, using stealth to get into position) and regular infantry left when militaries reduced engagement ranges through less powerful rifle design and ammunition.
 
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#9
fengruliuyun said:
M14 as a crowd control weapon,for $750 and a tier 3?What's the advantage of M14 as a tier 3?No scope,slow fire rate,horrable sight,it's just awful.A scope make everything different.
Click to expand...

LOL. The M14 as it is should be a Tier 2 weapon at best. I've had so many newbies tell me, DEAD SERIOUS, that they thought the Lever Action and M14 had their prices reversed because the Lever Action is amazing and the M14 is junk.

Eureka said:
Designated Marksman, typically some sort of infantry soldier with a more accurate version of the average assault rifle to assist in engaging targets outside of the usual range but still fighting alongside the rest of squad. They are intended to fill the gap between snipers (who usually operate relatively autonomously, using stealth to get into position) and regular infantry left when militaries reduced engagement ranges through less powerful rifle design and ammunition.
Click to expand...

Yup. They're basically the ones who "Take the shot" when the shot is one that'd be kinda iffy with the infantry squad's standard weaponry. DMs are pretty close to "Snipers", as they're usually the best shots in their squad, have longer-range weapons and/or better optics on their weapons.

If a squad leader spotted an enemy soldier in the far distance and he said "Take him down", the DM would be the one who takes the shot, no questions asked, typically. It's a sound concept and can easily be worked into Killing Floor squads (And often WAS when the Crossbow could 1-shot FPs!)
 
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#12
i don't agree with the OP, however this is why these new sniper rifles are a good thing because ppl who feel the sharp's loadout is insufficient/underpowered can enjoy the old xbow experience (i understand the barrett will be more powerful?) -

While they may make the whitelist if there are sufficient penalties, i don't expect and would hope not to see them in the game proper - i enjoy the changes to sharp as it's still very usefull on the highest level yet cannot render the strongest enemies redundant anymore - at the moment sharp is perfect really imo.
 
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#13
fengruliuyun said:
All the weapons for SS are totally screwed.New ones are needed.

In the modding area there are already a Hunting rifle released,and a M99 anti-material rifle,and a M44 bayonet.They are all in the beta version but I think they are pretty nicely done.

What is the use of sharpshooters/snipers/DMs?Take out high-threat targets at far distance.Their weapons should be powerful in 1 shot but with a low RoF.For the sake of "looking far",their weapons should be scoped.

Does LAR fit this?It's not scoped.
Does M14 fit this?It's not scoped as well.
The crossbow?Its firepower is low compared to its RoF(Imagine that you need 4 headshots to take out a FP while you hardly score 2 headshots before the FP tears you into shreads).

Why the old version SS overpowered?Cause

The Xbow:Cheap price,cheap ammo,insane damage with a RoF pretty quick,along with the penetration.

M14:Cheap ammo,RoF too quick.Fire without aim.

Note that I have not mentioned "damage too high".Reasons?Snipers are intended to be Massive damage with low reloading speed.Nerfing it by decreasing the damage can be going into the wrong way.
Click to expand...

For those that don't know:

DM= Designated marksmen

DM: The DM's role is to supply rapid accurate fire on enemy targets at ranges up to 1,000 metres (1,090 yd) with a rifle capable of semi-automatic fire. DMs are trained in quick and precise shooting, but unlike the more specialized "true" sniper, they are also intended to lay down accurate rapid fire.

Sharpshooter (aka marksman): The main difference between a marksman and a normal sniper is that a marksman is usually considered an organic part of a team of soldiers, whereas regular snipers tend to work alone or with other snipers. In the military, marksmen are sometimes attached to an infantry squad where they take accurate long-range shots at valuable targets as needed, thus extending the reach of the squad.

sniper: A sniper is a marksman who shoots targets from concealed positions or distances exceeding the capabilities of regular personnel. Snipers typically have specialized training and distinct high-precision rifles. Military snipers are also trained in camouflage, field craft, infiltration, reconnaissance and observation.

DM<=/=>Sharpshooter<=/=>sniper

They are similar in theory, but not execution.

Imo, the sharpshooter is designed to operate similar to the DM, with an element or two of the marksman. Sorry to nitpick, but I was curious as to the differences.

He uses quicker firing weapons because he is out in the open and exposed, with many enemies in range. A sniper uses slower firing higher damage rounds for many reasons, but the biggest of them is the fact that a snipers job isn't to tackle an entire enemy group in an extended engagement. They take their shot, and bugger off before someone can find them.

This is all theoretical, mind you.

The perk is working as intended in my opinion.
 
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#14
noupperlobeman said:
For those that don't know:

DM= Designated marksmen

DM: The DM's role is to supply rapid accurate fire on enemy targets at ranges up to 1,000 metres (1,090 yd) with a rifle capable of semi-automatic fire. DMs are trained in quick and precise shooting, but unlike the more specialized "true" sniper, they are also intended to lay down accurate rapid fire.

Sharpshooter (aka marksman): The main difference between a marksman and a normal sniper is that a marksman is usually considered an organic part of a team of soldiers, whereas regular snipers tend to work alone or with other snipers. In the military, marksmen are sometimes attached to an infantry squad where they take accurate long-range shots at valuable targets as needed, thus extending the reach of the squad.

sniper: A sniper is a marksman who shoots targets from concealed positions or distances exceeding the capabilities of regular personnel. Snipers typically have specialized training and distinct high-precision rifles. Military snipers are also trained in camouflage, field craft, infiltration, reconnaissance and observation.

DM<=/=>Sharpshooter<=/=>sniper

They are similar in theory, but not execution.

Imo, the sharpshooter is designed to operate similar to the DM, with an element or two of the marksman. Sorry to nitpick, but I was curious as to the differences.

He uses quicker firing weapons because he is out in the open and exposed, with many enemies in range. A sniper uses slower firing higher damage rounds for many reasons, but the biggest of them is the fact that a snipers job isn't to tackle an entire enemy group in an extended engagement. They take their shot, and bugger off before someone can find them.

This is all theoretical, mind you.

The perk is working as intended in my opinion.
Click to expand...

It's a habit of american/british accent.The american call them DM,and the british sharpshooter.British people tend to use combined words(sharp+shooter,isn't it?)
 
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#15
noupperlobeman said:
For those that don't know:

DM= Designated marksmen

DM: The DM's role is to supply rapid accurate fire on enemy targets at ranges up to 1,000 metres (1,090 yd) with a rifle capable of semi-automatic fire. DMs are trained in quick and precise shooting, but unlike the more specialized "true" sniper, they are also intended to lay down accurate rapid fire.

Sharpshooter (aka marksman): The main difference between a marksman and a normal sniper is that a marksman is usually considered an organic part of a team of soldiers, whereas regular snipers tend to work alone or with other snipers. In the military, marksmen are sometimes attached to an infantry squad where they take accurate long-range shots at valuable targets as needed, thus extending the reach of the squad.

sniper: A sniper is a marksman who shoots targets from concealed positions or distances exceeding the capabilities of regular personnel. Snipers typically have specialized training and distinct high-precision rifles. Military snipers are also trained in camouflage, field craft, infiltration, reconnaissance and observation.

DM<=/=>Sharpshooter<=/=>sniper

They are similar in theory, but not execution.

Imo, the sharpshooter is designed to operate similar to the DM, with an element or two of the marksman. Sorry to nitpick, but I was curious as to the differences.

He uses quicker firing weapons because he is out in the open and exposed, with many enemies in range. A sniper uses slower firing higher damage rounds for many reasons, but the biggest of them is the fact that a snipers job isn't to tackle an entire enemy group in an extended engagement. They take their shot, and bugger off before someone can find them.

This is all theoretical, mind you.

The perk is working as intended in my opinion.
Click to expand...

In KF SS covered both the role of sniper or DM.So there are snipers and DMRs provided.However all of them are underpowered right now.

In old version Xbow play the role as the sniper rifle.It's heavy,powerful,but a RoF too quick and penetration made it OP.Now it's totally underpowered.Imagine that 4 headshots are required to take out a FP while you can hardly score more than 2?

M14 as DMR although it is not scoped.<In old version>Taking out a FP with M14 need more skill but still available.Why DMR?Cause it has a much higher RoF than the Xbow.
 
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#17
fengruliuyun said:
In KF SS covered both the role of sniper or DM.So there are snipers and DMRs provided.However all of them are underpowered right now.
Click to expand...

I haven't been on these forums for long but even I have already seen too many conversations about whether or not the Sharpshooter perk fills the role of a "Sniper". I don't want to get dragged into the semantics but in my mind the Sharpshooter does what it is intended to do- use precision to get long-range kills. For what it's worth, I don't think that Killing Floor Sharpshooters are "snipers" in the strict sense, nor should they be. The game is not about stealth and not about killing single targets hundreds of meters away, it's about surviving the zombie apocalypse/endless specimen hordes. In the game, that means mostly close-quarters combat, where a Designated Marksman/Sharpshooter is useful and a sniper doesn't even have time to get into position.

I would not consider myself to be a great Sharpshooter but even I can get long-range kills with the Handcannon, Crossbow, and Lever-Action Rifle. I personally don't much like the M14 (never have, even pre-balance) and I can understand why there are requests for a scope on it. At the same time, I see better Sharpshooters than I using it to deadly effect.
 
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#18
OM-fn-G ppl debating over what the perk is, is trivial. TWI wants it to be called a Sharpshooter so thats what it is, A SHARPSHOOTER. So arguing over what to call it isnt going to progress the debate over wether or not the weapons are or are not under or over powered.

I myself belive that the SHARPSHOOTER is working like it is supposed to. Its is no longer the god Perk and is balanced along with the rest of the Perks. Plus when I go into the game I dont see everyone being a SHARPSHOOTER though there is kind of an over flow of support now. I think that will be the next nerf. They need their day in the spot light for a bit tho.

If I can take out a flesh pound in 3 shots on a 6 man game HOE with my SHARPSHOOTER (getting my point yet :eek:) there is no need for better guns just better players. Im not the best, but I consider myself one of the best players that use a SS in the game. I can still clear a room with deagles and still use my 9mm and Xbow. The nerf didn't hurt me besides the cost of ammo. I had to change up my game a bit. If your complaining, well change up your game a bit.:D
 
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#19
Hey, hey, noupperlobeman, hey, noupperlobeman.

Thanks for that post, it's good to learn things like that. +Rep.

Anubis_FB said:
Plus when I go into the game I dont see everyone being a SHARPSHOOTER though there is kind of an over flow of support now.
Click to expand...
I noticed this too, and tried Support Specialist.
I just plain can't get into it. The shots are slow, the reloads are slow, the AA12 feels weird to me, the hunting shotgun severely lacks ammo.

I prefer Sharpshooter over Support Specialist. I personally don't see the hype in Support... It's my lowest perk due to that.
 
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#20
I don't overly care how strong a perk is or the weapon is, I just want to use something fun. Ever since the Doom and Quake series, I've been in love with shotguns. Call Of Duty didn't have very good shotguns as everyone killed you before you could get close and then I started playing Killing Floor and my love for Shotguns has returned :D I can understand if it's not for everyone.

Right, onto the thread topic. The Sharpshooter is almost perfectly balanced, it is fun to use without being overpowered and you can still take out clots and small stuff with Handcanons and save your Crossbow for Sirens and higher. Really there is nothing I would change.
 
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