• Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/

Gunslinger Perk - Yes or No?

Gunslinger Perk - Yes or No?


  • Total voters
    240
What exactly is the point of a no screen-shake feature if you can still be damaged by Bloat bile and Sirens? That doesn't encourage running and gunning in any way as you'd still have to be out of range of these specimens in order to kill them. It'd be like the screen-shake resistance didn't exist at all. It makes about as much sense as the Siren damage reduction, which is...none.

Well have you ever tried dual wiedling? To accurately get headshots you have to get pretty close. This is what the perk specialises in, dual wielding for rapid fire, firing from the hip, quick reloads, and moving at speed to encourage running and gunning.

The resistance idea is that for these types of specimen, especially the Siren, an equal part of the problem to the damage is the amount of screen blur she gives you. Not only are you taking large damage, you also can't see during this time. Usually a follow up scream or other speicmens around you tend to finish you off while your still blinded by the screen blur. Likewise when hit by bloat acid the yellow splat blocks your vision and although the splat might not kill you, the stalkers and crawlers closing in on you while your blinded will.

The point (and the idea with the Siren Resistance too) was to make it so these issues aren't as much of a problem for the Gunslinger. Having his armour to reduce the damage he takes from Husk ignitions and Bloat Acid, (and Siren Resitance if added) coupled with his ability to see through the on screen effects without alot of difficulty will help him to keep punching through, without momentarily being disorientated and unable to accurately aim.

So overall with the dual wield + hip fire damage, his speed boost, fast reloads, and resistance to the vision obscuring specimens encourages the Gunslinger to keep punching through when other players would be forced to retreat.

At least thats how I see it.
 
Upvote 0
Well have you ever tried dual wiedling? To accurately get headshots you have to get pretty close. This is what the perk specialises in, dual wielding for rapid fire, firing from the hip, quick reloads, and moving at speed to encourage running and gunning.

The resistance idea is that for these types of specimen, especially the Siren, an equal part of the problem to the damage is the amount of screen blur she gives you. Not only are you taking large damage, you also can't see during this time. Usually a follow up scream or other speicmens around you tend to finish you off while your still blinded by the screen blur. Likewise when hit by bloat acid the yellow splat blocks your vision and although the splat might not kill you, the stalkers and crawlers closing in on you while your blinded will.

The point (and the idea with the Siren Resistance too) was to make it so these issues aren't as much of a problem for the Gunslinger. Having his armour to reduce the damage he takes from Husk ignitions and Bloat Acid, (and Siren Resitance if added) coupled with his ability to see through the on screen effects without alot of difficulty will help him to keep punching through, without momentarily being disorientated and unable to accurately aim.

So overall with the dual wield + hip fire damage, his speed boost, fast reloads, and resistance to the vision obscuring specimens encourages the Gunslinger to keep punching through when other players would be forced to retreat.

At least thats how I see it.

Yeah, pistol fighting is classicly closer-range, kind of like shotguns in that way, except you have to aim. At most, medium range, but in many cases while moving.

So the no-blur effect would be very useful to akimbo playstyles espcecially. Of course, you could still headshot long-range with one, but the lessened blur allows for better run and gun, or akimboing.

So really it just allows for a new kind of playstyle. A kind of playstyle that sounds quite exciting to me:D:IS2:

And the openness of gunslinger seems very appealing to me. It allows for a variety of different ways to play it, and allows for players to get different experiences from the same perk by simply using a different style. It also makes the gunslinger a bit of a wildcard, and I think that, should it be released, it would be very exciting :)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Undedd Jester
Upvote 0
The point (and the idea with the Siren Resistance too) was to make it so these issues aren't as much of a problem for the Gunslinger. Having his armour to reduce the damage he takes from Husk ignitions and Bloat Acid, (and Siren Resitance if added) coupled with his ability to see through the on screen effects without alot of difficulty will help him to keep punching through, without momentarily being disorientated and unable to accurately aim.


Why does gunslinger need a run speed boost? Zerker needs it because he has to literally be on top of enemies, medic needs it to syringe things effectively(even though the syringe should really be counted as a melee weapon for speed purposes. It would help a lot with people running away.) But those are the only really two perks who really merit it in my opinion.

Support gets pretty close to use his shotgun, does he need a speed boost? Nope.

You're really just overpowering gunslinger. Resistance to screen shake, siren damage(which really should go to the berserker or demo), resistance to bloat acid(why? berserker needs this since he needs to be next to the bloat, i've dual wielded and i can take out a bloat's head without being in puke range), Husk ignitions(why not just make the gunslinger immune to everything and say gg specimens?), AND a run speed boost on top of that? I thought Phoenix said he didn't want his perk to be completely OP?

So to reiterate what you're thinking:


  • Standard bonuses(recoil, damage, reload speed, mag size)
  • Siren resistance
  • Screen shake immunity/resist
  • Husk fire resist
  • Bloat resist
  • Run speed boost
How can you not look at all that and not say "MAN! THAT IS CRAZY OP!"
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
You're really just overpowering gunslinger. Resistance to screen shake, siren damage(which really should go to the berserker or demo), resistance to bloat acid(why? berserker needs this since he needs to be next to the bloat, i've dual wielded and i can take out a bloat's head without being in puke range), Husk ignitions(awhy not just make the gunslinger immune to everything and say gg specimens!). AND a run speed boost on top of that? I thought Phoenix said he didn't want his perk to be completely OP?

You misunderstand, he isn't immune to damage, just on screen effects. If he is on fire, he will still burn, but the flames will be visibly reduced on his screen so he can see easier. Acid will take a sizable chunk of HP off as normal, but the acid splat will be alot less of a hinderance. Normally these things would blind the player and leave them exposed, but his resistance would allow him to see and kill anything that may be moving in to finish him off while he would normally be blinded.

Siren damage resistance is up for debate, and tbh, I myself am undecided on the matter.

In my model, the Gunslinger would get: -
- a boost to pistol damage
- a extra rather small boost if he is firing from the hip
- a extra smaller still boost while dual wielding
- reload speed reduction
- a maximum of a 15% speed boost (Lower than both the medic and the Zerker)
- reduced on screen effects.

Possibly
- Siren Scream damage resistance
- Overall ammo capacity

The final 2 there are open to debate to ensure the Gunslinger is balanced, but I would definately say the base stats are most definately NOT overpowered

Spoiler!
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
You misunderstand, he isn't immune to damage, just on screen effects. If he is on fire, he will still burn, but the flames will be visibly reduced on his screen so he can see easier. Acid will take a sizable chunk of HP off as normal, but the acid splat will be alot less of a hinderance. Normally these things would blind the player and leave them exposed, but his resistance would allow him to see and kill anything that may be moving in to finish him off while he would normally be blinded.

Siren damage resistance is up for debate, and tbh, I myself am undecided on the matter.

In my model, the Gunslinger would get: -
- a boost to pistol damage
- a extra rather small boost if he is firing from the hip
- a extra smaller still boost while dual wielding
- reload speed reduction
- a maximum of a 15% speed boost (Lower than both the medic and the Zerker)
- reduced on screen effects.

Possibly
- Siren Scream damage resistance
- Overall ammo capacity

The final 2 there are open to debate to ensure the Gunslinger is balanced, but I would definately say the base stats are most definately NOT overpowered
Apparently i misread what you said as adding resistance to those damage types.

Anyways, i still don't think the gunslinger needs run speed at all. If he NEEDED run speed, then support would NEED it since he gets just about as close to enemies as gunslinger would dual wielding.
 
Upvote 0
Apparently i misread what you said as adding resistance to those damage types.

Anyways, i still don't think the gunslinger needs run speed at all. If he NEEDED run speed, then support would NEED it since he gets just about as close to enemies as gunslinger would dual wielding.

I do see where your coming from, but wouldn't you say a Shotgun is slightly more powerful than a pistol? Don't have to run much when you can take down 4 enemies in 1 shot.

The Zerker has speed cause he needs to dodge, the medic needs speed cause he needs to run and heal. Both of them have damage resistances in the form of Bloat reistance, AND armour/Overall Damage Reduction.
The Gunslinger needs to be able stay in optimum range with foes, but still stay out of reach of their attacks, and the only option I can see for doing that is a speed boost. Otherwise he is going to need some pretty solid resistances.
 
Upvote 0
I do see where your coming from, but wouldn't you say a Shotgun is slightly more powerful than a pistol? Don't have to run much when you can take down 4 enemies in 1 shot.

The Zerker has speed cause he needs to dodge, the medic needs speed cause he needs to run and heal. Both of them have damage resistances in the form of Bloat reistance, AND armour/Overall Damage Reduction.
The Gunslinger needs to be able stay in optimum range with foes, but still stay out of reach of their attacks, and the only option I can see for doing that is a speed boost. Otherwise he is going to need some pretty solid resistances.
Dual HCs or this new "revolver" are just as powerful if not more powerful than the pump shotty. Unless you're running around using soley 9mms I don't see killing things ever becoming a problem.
 
Upvote 0
Dual HCs or this new "revolver" are just as powerful if not more powerful than the pump shotty. Unless you're running around using soley 9mms I don't see killing things ever becoming a problem.

Maybe but the Pump Shotty is the basic weapon of the Support. AA12 and HS will trump dual HC's every time...

Personally I think
- a boost to pistol damage
- a extra rather small boost if he is firing from the hip
- a extra smaller still boost while dual wielding
- reload speed reduction
- reduced on screen effects.

Is no where near enough to make the perk credible enough to add.

Incidently just so you know, damage wise at level 6 the Gunslinger with those stats would have about the same damage as a Level 4 Sharpshooter scoring headshots.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Maybe but the Pump Shotty is the basic weapon of the Support. AA12 and HS will trump dual HC's every time...

Personally I think
- a boost to pistol damage
- a extra rather small boost if he is firing from the hip
- a extra smaller still boost while dual wielding
- reload speed reduction
- reduced on screen effects.

Is no where near enough to make the perk credible enough to add.

Incidently just so you know, damage wise at level 6 the Gunslinger with those stats would have about the same damage as a Level 4 Sharpshooter scoring headshots.

The SS is overpowered, it gets 50% headshot damage AND 60% more base damage. You really shouldn't compare anything to it. When i played SS, i just used a single 9mm,HC and xbow. I spammed my way to 6(gunslinger-esque style of play) and i saw no need whatsoever for less screen shake or run speed bonus.

This seems to me like you're just trying to get a benefit that is unique to gunslinger, but if TWI really did add this. I bet you anything they'd probably just give the gunslinger zed-time extensions(pretty useless eh?) like every perk they didn't know how to add a nice unique ability to.

The demo was added and it only has a few perk benefits, i don't see anything wrong with your list besides maybe adding mag size.

On a completely unrelated note, Timur and i just sang the original pokemon theme song via steam, it was AMAZING.

YouTube - Pokémon Theme Song
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Vaecrius
Upvote 0
The SS is overpowered, it gets 50% headshot damage AND 60% more base damage. You really shouldn't compare anything to it. When i played SS, i just used a single 9mm,HC and xbow. I spammed my way to 6(gunslinger-esque style of play) and i saw no need whatsoever for less screen shake or run speed bonus.

This seems to me like you're just trying to get a benefit that is unique to gunslinger, but if TWI really did add this. I bet you anything they'd probably just give the gunslinger zed-time extensions(pretty useless eh?) like every perk they didn't know how to add a nice unique ability to.

The demo was added and it only has a few perk benefits, i don't see anything wrong with your list besides maybe adding mag size.

On a completely unrelated note, Timur and i just sang the original pokemon theme song via steam, it was AMAZING.

I WANNA BE THE VERY BEST THAT NO ONE EVER WAS...
dun dun dun...
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Anyways, i still don't think the gunslinger needs run speed at all. If he NEEDED run speed, then support would NEED it since he gets just about as close to enemies as gunslinger would dual wielding.
Support is heavy weapons guy and gunslinger is scout?

Edit: holy crap, the berserker actually is the "scout" of kf so why not give light weapons boni to him and call it a day?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
What I'd think would work thematically for the GS, if I didn't have to consider any of the other perks:

  • Zed-time extensions
  • Increased reload speed
  • Discount and increased # of mags for pistols
  • Can't be grabbed by clots
  • Movement bonus at least as good as medic's
  • No movement penalty when you're "in the red"
  • Huge damage bonus with pistols but only when you're "in the red"
  • Gain health by dealing damage, but only while "in the red"
  • Instant extended zed-time once you fall below 20 health to take maximum advantage of the above
  • Spawn with dual 9m and/or (dual) HC
  • To level you need to kill a number of each kind of zed except the patriarch with the pistols, as well as make a certain number of headshots with the pistols while on the run or while in the red
The idea, of course, being to emulate those movie gunfights where people are dodging and weaving and getting shot and beat up only to make dramatic comebacks...
 
Upvote 0
Yeah I'm calling it a day on this one. Although I will answer a couple of things quickly.

The SS is overpowered, you really shouldn't compare anything to it. When i played SS, i just used a single 9mm,HC and xbow. I spammed my way to 6(gunslinger-esque style of play) and i saw no need whatsoever for less screen shake or run speed bonus.

This seems to me like you're just trying to get a benefit that is unique to gunslinger, but if TWI really did add this. I bet you anything they'd probably just give the gunslinger zed-time extensions(pretty useless eh?) like every perk they didn't know how to add a nice unique ability to.

I am a bit weirded out by that accusation... isn't the point of adding a new perk to give him something unique to operate with? Otherwise what would be the point in adding him? Ah well whatever

Would you agree that a level 4 SS on the other hand isn't overpowered in a Suicidal Server? My impression was they were pretty much where they should be at that level. Plus remember the Gunslinger doesn't have an Xbow either, so I would be interested to see how well a Level 4 Sharpshooter would fare with only pistols on a Suicidal Server... I might download perk replacement mutator and give that a try.

Ah well I achieved what I wanted to anyway, at least people are actually talking about what the perk should have to make it unique rather than go nowhere conversations over and over.

Is really the only reason I've been pushing the Gunslinger so much lately, I wanted to finally nail down its attributes to be properly submitted as an idea.

My work here is done :)
 
Upvote 0
What I'd think would work thematically for the GS, if I didn't have to consider any of the other perks:

  • Zed-time extensions
  • Increased reload speed
  • Discount and increased # of mags for pistols
  • Can't be grabbed by clots
  • Movement bonus at least as good as medic's
  • No movement penalty when you're "in the red"
  • Huge damage bonus with pistols but only when you're "in the red"
  • Gain health by dealing damage, but only while "in the red"
  • Instant extended zed-time once you fall below 20 health to take maximum advantage of the above
  • Spawn with dual 9m and/or (dual) HC
  • To level you need to kill a number of each kind of zed except the patriarch with the pistols, as well as make a certain number of headshots with the pistols while on the run or while in the red
The idea, of course, being to emulate those movie gunfights where people are dodging and weaving and getting shot and beat up only to make dramatic comebacks...

You know, I honestly liked the idea of the "in the red" style. High risk, High reward.

Except the "gain health" thing, unless it proves to be too powerful to purposedly drop below 20 hp to have all those bonuses.

But all of those don't really fit KF. Which is kinda sad.
 
Upvote 0
that does sound ideal, but i'd hate to get hurt just so my pistols can be effective.... :(

Isn't it kind of redundant to make it so the player needs to be near death in order to stand a good chance of surviving? I can safely say I would play SS with deagles and get a reliable 50% headshot damage bonus instead of the gunslinger with a conditional damage boost. Even if it was crazy like 100% or something.

Amusing idea though :)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0