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more detailed scoreboard

I have to say, adding K/D stuff in any form will have the effect of making most players do whatever they can to buff their stats and it'll almost certainly be detrimental to the effort of the team as a whole. Even the kills/minute is not an accurate representation of value.

Take this example:
We have 2 players - we'll call them QueenLola and Mr Trolololbobs. At the start of the round QueenLola runs to a spot where she knows the enemy will be and spams grenades. She then picks up grenades from corpses and spams them into a narrow corridor where enemies often go - rinse and repeat for the entire round. On the other side of the map is Mr Trolololbobs with his rifle who manages to take out the enemy MG with an unsupported lean shot :)troll: <---- then he makes this face while celebrating) who's got the entire flank of the last cap locked down easy. He manages this 3 or 4 times in the round and finally the team is able to flood into the last cap and win the round. Who made the better contribution here? It's just not possible to have some kind rating of player value without taking so many more things into account (and that's not practical or worthwhile to implement).

The point is that having K/D stuff on the scoreboard would make people play a lot more like the former than the latter (and yes I know we have it for RO clan wars but it tends to affect those less because of the teamplay element). If it's going to be on there it should surely just be displayed at the end of the round.
 
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The thing is I don't care if the game only displays an overall score. But in its score I think it should take into account deaths and time played.

So for instance displaying Points/Deaths * Points/Time played as a score. That way in a long 1 hour round someone that played for an hour can be compared to someone that played 20 minutes.

You cannot make a perfect rating system but for instance someone that kills a lot of guys and got a high kills per minute and kill/deaths ratio could mean that you would be awarded more points when you kill him. It will never be perfect but as a lot of people strive for a high score, its probably best to take in as many factors as possible.

For instance in your suggestion getting more points for killing someone that is slaughtering your team. So for public gaming the scoring system should encourage behaviour that helps your team even if it cannot take into account every factor.

In competitive gaming everybody goes for the win of the map by default so in that sense scoring isn't important beside statistical information for a say a clan leader. Which is why then it would be handier to see amount of caps amount of kills deaths etc layed out.
 
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I ended up blowing both mcoms by grabbing the 4wheelers sticking on it bunch of C4's and driving stright into the m-coms.


JIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD :troll:

but I must note what got mentioned earlier in the thread. The kdr leads to stat-padding, as does accuracy. I don't have any problem spamming at corners and stuff to pin people down....until the round ends and it shows up 6-7% accuracy :eek:
 
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I think deaths should not be accounted. It's still a "punishment" when you die and have to run all the way back to the frontline (might change with the new spawn system), so adding another type of "punishment" in the form of death counting will make people keep their heads down even more.
I often die quite a lot when I'm trying to sneak in behind enemy lines. But then, when I succeed, and deploy my MG :cool:, I can cut off enemy reinforcements and pick out some enemies which are forming a choke point. As the game doesn't reward the player for this, so to say, "heroic actions", it will keep the death counter spinning, so in the end, the players that are doing this kind of things will get a negative K/D or a low score, even though they contribute quite a lot to the teams success.
 
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The reason to put heavy emphasis on score/minute is to get people to focus less on their online kill/death ratio, or even kill/minute one. This can only do good though if the scoring system is really designed to reward everything that has a part in ending up as the winner at round end.

Some people will be focused on stats, you cannot do anything about that except like RnL simply removing score. That is out of the question, so then what you have to do is to get people to focus on a score that makes people actually "work for the team". But also to not put some people who work for the team on top of the score board and not others, if they both do just as much for team victory.

The tough thing is that it depends on that map and game mode what thigns that are important. On some maps, a death is not as bad as on other maps. On some maps, a kill is not as important as on other maps. Or modes ofcourse. For instance in a balanced TDM map reinforcements wise, a better display for score should be something like (kills - deaths)/minute.

To finalize my post. Slightly more deatail could do good, but put the heavy emphasis on score/minute and have a damn good scorign system :p.
 
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I have to say, adding K/D stuff in any form will have the effect of making most players do whatever they can to buff their stats and it'll almost certainly be detrimental to the effort of the team as a whole. Even the kills/minute is not an accurate representation of value.

Take this example:
We have 2 players - we'll call them QueenLola and Mr Trolololbobs. At the start of the round QueenLola runs to a spot where she knows the enemy will be and spams grenades. She then picks up grenades from corpses and spams them into a narrow corridor where enemies often go - rinse and repeat for the entire round. On the other side of the map is Mr Trolololbobs with his rifle who manages to take out the enemy MG with an unsupported lean shot :)troll: <---- then he makes this face while celebrating) who's got the entire flank of the last cap locked down easy. He manages this 3 or 4 times in the round and finally the team is able to flood into the last cap and win the round. Who made the better contribution here? It's just not possible to have some kind rating of player value without taking so many more things into account (and that's not practical or worthwhile to implement).

The point is that having K/D stuff on the scoreboard would make people play a lot more like the former than the latter (and yes I know we have it for RO clan wars but it tends to affect those less because of the teamplay element). If it's going to be on there it should surely just be displayed at the end of the round.
QFT, though I'd be against it being shown at the end at all. If it is people will still work to boost their KDR instead of doing what's best for team (i.e. suicidal satchel runs on tanks :D)
 
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I would personally choose a scoreboard who shows those K/D ratio stuff only on competitive matches like it is already live thanks to the ROLADDER coders.

It is pretty useful to judge ur skill judging ur K/D ratio meaning u lost/won majority of ur duels during that match, which is pretty important in a competitive match.

At the opposite, having no K/D ratio featured @ scoreboard on pub play is a good decision to keep the team play at a maximum and avoid players to compare their e-penis all the time :) resulting in playing for kills and not capping/pushing objectives anymore.

So : K/D RATIO for competitive clan matches ONLY.
 
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I would personally choose a scoreboard who shows those K/D ratio stuff only on competitive matches like it is already live thanks to the ROLADDER coders.

It is pretty useful to judge ur skill judging ur K/D ratio meaning u lost/won majority of ur duels during that match, which is pretty important in a competitive match.

At the opposite, having no K/D ratio featured @ scoreboard on pub play is a good decision to keep the team play at a maximum and avoid players to compare their e-penis all the time :) resulting in playing for kills and not capping/pushing objectives anymore.

So : K/D RATIO for competitive clan matches ONLY.

+1. That would be perfect imo.
 
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I would personally choose a scoreboard who shows those K/D ratio stuff only on competitive matches like it is already live thanks to the ROLADDER coders.

It is pretty useful to judge ur skill judging ur K/D ratio meaning u lost/won majority of ur duels during that match, which is pretty important in a competitive match.

At the opposite, having no K/D ratio featured @ scoreboard on pub play is a good decision to keep the team play at a maximum and avoid players to compare their e-penis all the time :) resulting in playing for kills and not capping/pushing objectives anymore.

So : K/D RATIO for competitive clan matches ONLY.
+1
Now you have my attention...
 
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If any of you look into my BC2 stats you will see a nasty number of 60.000 kills and KDR of 2.5,I always played RUSH and nothing else,it was the most challenging game type,it was the rush mode that kept me playing BC2.

I can't count how many times I've played on pub servers or clan servers with clan members filled up and still if I was on the attacking team 60% of my team either was sniping and medic reviving,or was assault shooting with ACOG and resupplying the Engineers with ammo for their RPG's,I can count on my both hands the rounds I've played and had a team that blew trough the defence,those rounds were rare but they were sooooo enjoyable,yes a console port game but when you have people focusing on doing the job instead of trying to pick up somebody behind some object while the M-com is 50 feet away from them and they wont risk to die in order to arm it........


Thats what KDR in game and in online stats does to the game,RO dont have KDR and I see no one carrying if they risk to die in order to cap the area,the only time people start carrying is when reinforcement drops down drastically.

My worst round ever scenario in BC2 was:

in 16 players on my team on Port Valdez I had 9 snipers hiding on hill at spawn,3 medics healing them and reviving,2 assaults and 1 ebgy constantly shooting RPG miles away in enemy spawn....WTF!!!!

I ended up blowing both mcoms by grabbing the 4wheelers sticking on it bunch of C4's and driving stright into the m-coms.

I asked every time,guys move in join in,answer from most of them was I play for kill or I need to work on my KDR....

If this game gets KDR.....god help us all.....


Again you are comparing this game to BC2. Here are some reasons why people camp in BC2

1) Bad map design - Choke-point inside a choke-point inside a choke point is what 90% of Bc2 maps are. There is no flanking in BC2. You not only have 1 way to go but you also have cover that will be destroyed and explosives will kill you behind most cover. So what happens when the cover is gone? people camp because its suicide.

2) 3d spotting - Again, people camp in Bc2 because 90% of the time, if they try to sneak through to the objective they will get spotted by a player spamming the key.

3) Motion sensors.

4) Kill cam

If you remove tatctics from a game and force players down 1 way... you will get camping. People say that things like 2dspotting and killcam combat camping, they couldn't be more wrong. What this does is force players to be snipers and cause them to sit at spawn trying to get kills.

Killcam/3dspotting doesn't really bother a snipper hiding behind a rock at spawn.

Again, don't assume its the scoreboard that wrecked BC2... the game wrecked itself with its crappy gameplay
 
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I would personally choose a scoreboard who shows those K/D ratio stuff only on competitive matches like it is already live thanks to the ROLADDER coders.

It is pretty useful to judge ur skill judging ur K/D ratio meaning u lost/won majority of ur duels during that match, which is pretty important in a competitive match.

At the opposite, having no K/D ratio featured @ scoreboard on pub play is a good decision to keep the team play at a maximum and avoid players to compare their e-penis all the time :) resulting in playing for kills and not capping/pushing objectives anymore.

So : K/D RATIO for competitive clan matches ONLY.

Yeah that's OK...but like many I'd hate to see a detailed scoreboard for public servers. I think that would take away too much of from the core game play as it relates to the classic RO game-type of area control.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned here is that there will be a sort of TDM mode in the new game...so obviously there will be a KDR score for that game-type. What I would like to see is different types of score-boards for the different game types, with a mutator or server side option for the detailed score-board you refer to for clan matches (presumably for the classic RO game-type.)
 
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Again you are comparing this game to BC2. Here are some reasons why people camp in BC2

1) Bad map design - Choke-point inside a choke-point inside a choke point is what 90% of Bc2 maps are. There is no flanking in BC2. You not only have 1 way to go but you also have cover that will be destroyed and explosives will kill you behind most cover. So what happens when the cover is gone? people camp because its suicide.

2) 3d spotting - Again, people camp in Bc2 because 90% of the time, if they try to sneak through to the objective they will get spotted by a player spamming the key.

3) Motion sensors.

4) Kill cam

If you remove tatctics from a game and force players down 1 way... you will get camping. People say that things like 2dspotting and killcam combat camping, they couldn't be more wrong. What this does is force players to be snipers and cause them to sit at spawn trying to get kills.

Killcam/3dspotting doesn't really bother a snipper hiding behind a rock at spawn.

Again, don't assume its the scoreboard that wrecked BC2... the game wrecked itself with its crappy gameplay

I see that you and couple other peeps disagree about me going nutz about having KDR in RO2(its just a game I shouldnt be going nuts...)

I do understand what you say and your point about that BC2 and RO2 are 2 different games in every term,but when it comes to having KDR in games is not due to the way the game is designed,but the mentality of all todays FPS shooters,its the mentality I tell ya.

New commers to RO2 will most likely be BF and COD players,and once when they see that KDR tracking in game or on online stats borad,thats all it takes for them to get obsessed and proove to every body that they are more efficient than others,and fact is BC2 is a team based game type,no matter for choke points bro if one team is pushing hard,most likely the wall will fall.

But that wont happen cause today FPS players all they think is KDR and nothing else,its a mind set that means to them "if you dont got good KDR ur NOOB" - pathetic!!!

Look at the forums in COD and EA,everytime there is an argument about whatever related to the game,or someone complaining that something wrong with the game,some troll comes by and says:Well by looking at your KDR your noob,game is great,look at my KDR its 3.0 or whatever.

But then you look at his damn overall score and he has pitifull 10.000 kills in 300hrs of gameplay,he spend 300hrs in hiding and shooting with snipe or ACOG assault rifle just so he can come to the forums and slap someone in the face with his KDR...

Its non of the games fault,its the MENTALITY of todays gamer when they see KDR showing in game or online stats,its like a magical thing to them,they just cant help it!!!!
 
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If someone doesn't have the ability to play the game for itself (without needing the e-penis KDR etc in the first place) then I'd rather they stayed away from RO:HOS.
Attracting the right player is important to community, regardless of the "more sales!" angle.

Nicely put my man,but fact is no one can controll who buys the game and what type of gamers to attract when playing RO2.

Almost all new comers from BC2 and COD are KDR candy chasers,you take away the the KDR candy and instead you give CAKE for capping and team play,guess what they will be chasing then? the imaginary candy or the REAL DEAL juicy cake with iceing on top?;)

Now there is another group that will be attracted to this game and thats the Veterans from the BF series,they are not your typical KDR chaser,they do love team work as much as they love to play BF with mic!!!!
 
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So what do you suggest SolitarioSoldat for in-game display, if KDR can be seen on websites?
We need realistic suggestions here ;).

I know that I'm nobody to make a suggestions in here,and maeby my suggestions will be non valuable comparing to people that played RO with years,regulars here can come up with much more better inovation that I can thats for sure...But here is a few suggestions from me:



INGAME STATS
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-My idea would be make it make it as easy readable but also giving lots of info for a gamer to see how many points/and % he has as efficiency as team player.

For example a player can score 200 points per game or more(which in RO is considered a very good score per round),by capping,killing,resupplying MG gunners,helping someone to reload the rocket launcher etc etc etc.

Now when it comes to showing efficience to a player by 1-100% efficiency would be taking consideration in overall: "(positive)capping,resuplying,obeying squad leader orders,kills and (negative) deaths,team kills,suicides.Game has to have a good or descent calculating system to show how one person is a true team player.FYI the game will only calculate and show 1-100% team efficiency without showing deaths or kills,only points scored per round and % in efficiency.

For example if player has a round of 200 points/80% efficiency it means he is a one bad mother f...... if a player score 110 points/30% efficiency he is mediocre at that round,and a round of 30 points/5% efficiency...well that means he was sleeping almost the whole round....

WEBSITE STATS
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Now if there is a website stats tracking for everybody,then you can have it more optional:
-combine all efficiency % scored by the time played and divide by how many rounds played,that should give you overall how good player someone is.If someone is 20% he is struggling,50%+ he is solid gamer,80%+ a freak in mum's basement who eats doritos,drinks gatorade,sleeps 2 hrs per day,he is jobless and plays RO2 like its his last day on earth...JK!!! and :troll:

-I'm sure a lot of players will like to know how many kills they stacked so far,why not show the kills,(but do not show deaths at all,deaths are only used to get the overall team efficiency % and the whole system that figures the % is secret,NO ONE CAN HACKS AND SEE DEATHS)

-Show how many objectives you capped

-show how many MG resupplies you accomplished.

-Show how many RL supplies you accomplished

-Show how many times you helped someone with RL to reload.

-If in game is an option to bandage your self 1 time,and if there is an option to help someone thats injured and dont have any more bandages and he is bleeding at the moment - you can give the bandage to him but lose the bandage and earn points (kinda same as resuplying MG,only 1 time resupplying)-Show how many bandage HELP you accomplished.

-Show the efficiency % one every map,starting from top the map with the highest efficiency %,this way you can see which maps are you good at and which ones you lack and need to get better by implementing more tactics.

-Weapon stats!!!

it can be shown how many kills with weapon and which areas of the body you were most accurate with it,or you can just show overall efficiency with the weapon by how many kills and shots fired + if optional how many headshots accomplished...

I can go on and on and on,you can have tons of things with online stats to show how good of a team player you are,but dont show DEATHS,once deaths are shown people go back to their old comfort zone= KD Ratio.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

I want to see ingame stats and website stats(if optional) to show team work based scores,accomplishments,rewards,badges or whatever...This sort of ingame and website stats will leave any COD,BC2 player etc etc etc choicless and start playing the game as its designed to be played.once when they see there isnt any cookies giveaways by just hiding and killing from one spot,they will change their ways and they will go for the cake AKA = the real deal.

SORRY FOR THE LONG :troll:ING POST.
 
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