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Suppression effects in HOS?

I'd like to see some combination of blur and weapon sway and if there is going to be a 'level up/perk' type scheme then allow that to be reduced as you progress. Ideally I would like to see the presence of the SL within a certain proximity to the player, auto-reduce the suppression effect. This may encourage an SL to pay more attention to helping his team assault critical positions etc.
 
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I'll agree (to a point) that "popup" shooting needs to be addressed. I wouldn't even object if the position of the crosshairs was ever so slightly randomized. But only if by the most miniscule of amounts.

(Let me preface the following with acknowledging that I have not played any games that require one to "line up" their front and rear sights. So I speak from how I perceive that would work and not from gaming experience).
That said: Personally, I would think I'd have to draw the line with having to "line up" your front and rear sights using a mouse or some other mechanism. As an ex-competitive rifle and sporting clays shooter, I can't tell you the number of hours I've spent at picking a spot on the wall and bringing the gun up to my shoulder as if to shoot it. With even just a little practice, obtaining a near perfect sight picture (and close to on target) is not that difficult. The whole point of the excercise is to train oneself to bring their weapon up (with sights in perfect alignment) to wherever their eyes are focused and ready to shoot.

I can't say that I'm a fan of having the sights line up perfectly at the same exact spot on the screen each and every time one goes into iron sights. But by the same token, that is what we train our muscles to do irl. So for me, its a "Catch 22".

Though I'd have to try it out first, I guess my best case scenario would include a slight randomness to the sight's position when raised to iron sights. To take it a step further, perhaps a sight picture that needs a little greater adjusment when iron sights are brought up in less traditional (awkward) stances (leaning, crouched). But not so much when in the customary prone/kneeling/standing.

If that makes any sense to anyone..:eek:
 
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I disliked having any amount of bullets suddenly turning my character into a jittery twitching git that's been on cocaine withdrawal. What I would like to see though is a small randomization upon bringing up the ironsights (and maybe after a second of being still have it snap into alignment at center), and every time you make a sudden movement IE going from ironsighted crouch to ironsighted standing takes it out of alignment and you have to wait to let it readjust. Obviously while strafing or moving slowly with ironsights up it could bre drastically reduced or non-existant.
 
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if i'm actually scared of an mg shooting at me, i'll wisely stick to cover.......and when i say "i or me", i mean ME and not the avatar i am controlling on my screen. like bloody said ealier, when you first started RO the mgs were "scary", but eventually you get used to them and can tell when they really are a threat and when they aren't. it's the same thing even for the surpression system in DH. after a while you can eventually tell when the mg is actually a threat and when it isn't which affects your decision making as to take cover or not. my problem with DH is that it's exagerated quite a bit. an mg will be firing in the proximity of where i am located but it's not even coming close to actually hitting me. i (the physical "me") know that the mg isn't a threat at all and i should be "safe" to popup and take a shot at him, however the game forces my avatar to shake like he's having a seisure. to me that's not creating any "fear" or making it anymore "realistic" but instead just being an annoyance and create artificial "fear" that isn't really being experienced. additionally forcing your avatar to shake and be surpressed by nearby friendly mg fire is just rediculous. i mean would you really be shaking because you think your buddy 2ft away from you is going to whip the mg around and shoot you? :rolleyes:

imo, any supression system should be in between what we have in RO and DH. if there's a "leveling" system with actual bonuses, i don't think that players should be able to develop "surpression resistance" for their avatars. if done correctly, the actual player should be able to develop a good enough feel for the game to control his level of "fear" in regards to surpression fire.
 
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The thing is in a video game you only think rational. Can he actually hit me. Suppressive fire was given often by aiming at an area to keep people their heads down. Without even knowing if an enemy is there in the first place.

Suppressive fire is not fire aimed to kill its fire aimed to keep people their heads down. If someone would have the ability to kill someone instead then that would be his focus in the first place. It makes no sense trying to keep someone's head down if you can kill him in the first place.

In RO you can only use your fire to try and kill someone, and if the chance of getting killed is too big then people will stay suppressed. In RO volume of fire doesn't really have any affect on people only the accuracy of fire does. And that is what I would like to see changed. As volume of fire is one of the key basics of suppression.

In a game you will never have the fear of getting shot in a similar fashion as one would probably have in real life. By giving players physical handicaps when getting shot, allows you to actually use suppressive fire in the tactical sense. You don't get scared of the MG's in a game you never will but it can become harder to return fire which is the goal of suppressive fire. Similar of becoming more rational and losing your fear for bullets flying over your head, a player can then practise to minimise the hurdles of being suppressed and return fire.

Suppressive fire is the basis of a lot of infantry tactics, which cannot be utilized in RO at the moment. In contrast I've seen such tactics used effectively in DH. And that is the main thing I care for the ability to use suppressive fire within tactics.

Within countdown as people only have one life per cap you will probably see that people try to avoid confrontations when possible.
 
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Supression effects should be part and parcel with the game's mechanics IMO, in tandem with the stun effects of grenades and artillery. "Pocket Artillery" was essential for storming strongholds in Stalingrad, so having stun radius effects for grenades is not too much different from suggesting suppression results for close-proximity small arms fire.

I'd like to see some combination of blur and weapon sway and if there is going to be a 'level up/perk' type scheme then allow that to be reduced as you progress.
I think this is a good idea also, and reflects the seasoning of veteran troops to battlefield conditions.
 
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I'd like to see some combination of blur and weapon sway and if there is going to be a 'level up/perk' type scheme then allow that to be reduced as you progress. Ideally I would like to see the presence of the SL within a certain proximity to the player, auto-reduce the suppression effect. This may encourage an SL to pay more attention to helping his team assault critical positions etc.
I disagree with your first point; I do support blur and weapon sway but I think it is a bad thing to relate it to a level up/perk type of thing. From a view of gameplaymechanics, the effect would be much less effective when the game (and it's community) gets in a later stage (where many players will be veterans and achieve 'high levels'). To say it in short: the intention of suppressive fire would be impaired over time.

I agree with your second point, having less suppression when the SL is around in the proximity sounds really like a good thing to simulate at least some of a 'morale-system'. Not to mention that it benefits teamplay in a good manner.
 
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Suppressive fire is not fire aimed to kill its fire aimed to keep people their heads down. If someone would have the ability to kill someone instead then that would be his focus in the first place. It makes no sense trying to keep someone's head down if you can kill him in the first place.

In RO you can only use your fire to try and kill someone, and if the chance of getting killed is too big then people will stay suppressed. In RO volume of fire doesn't really have any affect on people only the accuracy of fire does. And that is what I would like to see changed. As volume of fire is one of the key basics of suppression.

In a game you will never have the fear of getting shot in a similar fashion as one would probably have in real life. By giving players physical handicaps when getting shot, allows you to actually use suppressive fire in the tactical sense. You don't get scared of the MG's in a game you never will but it can become harder to return fire which is the goal of suppressive fire. Similar of becoming more rational and losing your fear for bullets flying over your head, a player can then practise to minimise the hurdles of being suppressed and return fire.

Suppressive fire is the basis of a lot of infantry tactics, which cannot be utilized in RO at the moment. In contrast I've seen such tactics used effectively in DH. And that is the main thing I care for the ability to use suppressive fire within tactics.
My thoughts exactly :)
 
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suppressive in DH sucks, because it doesn't make you fear the bullets, it makes you go: **** this ****, aim!, come on aim! you mother****er.... which is a very different feeling. I can't stand DH

:IS2::IS2::IS2:

Of course it doesn't make you fear the bullets nothing does, but it makes you suppressed as in unable to return accurate fire when pinned down aka suppressed. I think there are nicer ways to do that than the DH method, where a player can keep more control over his character.

But indeed making someone actually fear dying in a game is an impossible feat, while its the fundamental basis of a lot of infantry tactics. And that is the sole reason why I want to see suppressive fire work in the game through a form of handicap when being fired at.
 
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is not, that's what countdown mode is designed to achieve.

when in RO, your team is at 0%, and you know you wont respawn, you are actually afraid of being killed, that's the authentic feeling, and not that bull**** in DH.

:IS2:

In countdown you are more afraid (or rather more concious) of getting killed than in territory. But its still a big a step off to say that the fear of being shot in countdown is equal to that of being shot in real life.

Next to that the territory game type still exist, where the issue still remains that suppressive fire simply does not suppress. One of the reasons why I'm pushing for individual reinforcements is because it can make people play more aware of their lives in the territory game type, allowing mappers to use it to steer players to play more defensive.

As said before my reason for wanting working suppressive fire is for the utilization of the tactics based around it. Countdown misses the tactical elements of managing your own and the enemies reinforcement inflow. Next to that in Countdown you can only fight for 1 cap zone at a time taking away some more tactical freedom. Countdown got its own merits especially in the sense of added tension, but its an additional game mode and a not a replacement for territory.

I don't like the exact execution of DH's system but it does proof that suppressive fire can work effectively as a tactic in a territory gametype. And with polish and tweaking a good compromise could be found.
 
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You can't have "fear of death" in a game, not even in the most realistic mil-sim ever. You CAN however simulate suppression but this is difficult to implement in RO because RO is a respawn-based game. Those who've played games where you receive only one life per mission or round (ArmA 2 missions for example) know that people are much more careful during such gameplay. Suppression works pretty well there. I have no idea how to implement suppression in RO though. Perhaps a very slight blur for every enemy bullet that zips by your head. Then again, doesn't RO already have that? Haven't played it in a long time.:(

Ideally, the game would simulate suppression without taking away too much control from the player.
 
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yo base all of it around possible tactics, but there are no tactics in public servers and pubs are where one spend most of the time. Such in-depth squad tactics are rare even in clan play, why would you have something that negatively affects the whole game when you can only see its benefits counted times (if you get to see them at all)

:IS2:
 
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Perhaps a very slight blur for every enemy bullet that zips by your head. Then again, doesn't RO already have that? Haven't played it in a long time.:(

Currently the screen blurs but its not really effective in stopping someone from firing back with pinpoint accuracy.

The biggest issue is that even when the sight is blurred its easy to remember where someone was firing from (especially if they are still firing and you see muzzle flashes). Blurring pretty much makes it harder to spot new targets but doesn't make it harder to take down targets that you know the position of already. Which is why something like a slight misalignment of the front/rear sights or a form of controllable sway could be helpful.

For the same reason I hope that your sight slightly moves when you change stance to stop pop-up shooting. With pop-up shooting you quickly peek at the enemy while standing and quickly go crouched behind cover. While in cover you basically pre aim the gun to then pop-up and hit the enemy in a split of a second.

This is possible because if your standing and then go crouch and stand again your gun will be pointing at the exact same pixel. You can for instance aim with a gun as well go out of iron sight and fire the gun without moving your mouse and you'll hit the exact spot you aimed at in iron sights.

yo base all of it around possible tactics, but there are no tactics in public servers and pubs are where one spend most of the time. Such in-depth squad tactics are rare even in clan play, why would you have something that negatively affects the whole game when you can only see its benefits counted times (if you get to see them at all)

The level of competitive clan based teamwork goes pretty far and should not be underestimated. If something can effectively be utilized it will be. Although I get annoyed by some of the issues of the suppression system utilized in DH, every round I play, I see people utilizing suppressive fire to cover ground. Either with people laying down fire while others advance, or people trying to suppress the enemy while advancing at the same time.

Its not some rarity on public servers in DH to see use of suppressive fire, and working together as a team is not required for utilizing suppression in tactics. As always working in a team can just increase the depth and effectiveness of tactics. If the DH suppression system would only have negative effects then there wouldn't be so many people that like the basis of it. It is not perfect and got issues, but a lot of those can be patched up.
 
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some people may like it, but many people like world of warcraft too, and is not any less rubbish because of that, is it?.

That suppression system its one of the main reason I don't play that DH thing, and I would be very pissed if TWI implemented it in RO:HoS, even more pissed than when they implemented the auto drop weapon on pickup in RO:Ost

:IS2::IS2::IS2:
 
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I don't want the same system as in DH either, as it got some issues and takes away a bit too much control for my liking. However I do think that suppression should have a bigger effect than currently in ROOST.

But I think that on this matter we should leave the discussion free now for others to voice their opinions on the matter. As we have both made our opinions and reasons clear.
 
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suppressive in DH sucks, because it doesn't make you fear the bullets, it makes you go: **** this ****, aim!, come on aim! you mother****er.... which is a very different feeling from fear or caution, is just plain and simple frustration of fighting against the game mechanics. I can't stand DH

:IS2::IS2::IS2:


This. The suppression system in DH is awful.

I was playing RO two days ago as an MG42 gunner. When I was shooting over the castle walls on Kakasus (spelling), the enemies ducked and stopped shooting back.

Suppression works in RO. In every RO game I play, you'll see that when people get shot at, they will often duck and stay in cover.

In DH, it turns into a who shot at who first fest.

An over the top suppression effect will never work in a quick spawn based game (like RO).

Currently the screen blurs but its not really effective in stopping someone from firing back with pinpoint accuracy.


Wish I kept that article now.

If you want, you can google it. About a USMC (or US Army?) marksmen in Afghanistan (or possibly in Iraq).

As he was being shot at, with bullets going past and hitting within feet of him, he still managed to kill 21 enemies.

So yes, you should have some chance at returning fire, even if an enemy is shooting at you.

In RO, when you are being shot at, it becomes much harder to hit a moving target.
 
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If you want, you can google it. About a USMC (or US Army?) marksmen in Afghanistan (or possibly in Iraq).

As he was being shot at, with bullets going past and hitting within feet of him, he still managed to kill 21 enemies.

So yes, you should have some chance at returning fire, even if an enemy is shooting at you.

In RO, when you are being shot at, it becomes much harder to hit a moving target.

The issue for me is not mostly about moving targets but about still targets like a mg that cannot move because they are deployed. Especially as muzzle flashes and tracers do not get blurred making MG's firing at you become easy to spot (and next to that people can disable the blur for a black screen currently which makes it easy to see bright muzzle flashes as well).

There are plenty occasions of actual people firing back while under fire, however its more of an exception rather than a norm. Where as in RO its the norm rather than the exception. Its like every player is like that USMC marksman in RO.

I've never stated that I want the exact DH system, and one of the reasons is exactly that the jerking is so irregular that it becomes impossible to fire back. What I would like to see is something like the front sight slightly misaligning so you can still hit but need to account for the bullet going slightly left or right. So especially in close range combat you aren't really affected as much but you are in longer range combat. What I want is probably closer to the effect you get in RO when you get suppressed by arty.

(perhaps if something is changed about how clear you can still spot emitters like muzzle flashes and tracers when you get blurred that only blur would indeed be enough).
 
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