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Civilians to protect/execute

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Attilaken

Attilaken

Grizzled Veteran
Jan 19, 2010
180
12
Belgium
#1
It is probably a crazy idea and not realistic to request it now (there are much more important things Tripwire could spend their time on). It probably would take out player slots, but if there would be a way not to take out player slots, I think the presence of civilians in the city of Stalingrad would be cool.

Those civilians would not be able to fight, but would of course be able to get killed by friendly or enemy soldiers. I won't let them all run over the streets (or only when they are scared because of fighting near them), but I think it would be fun to meet them in the buildings. If a russian soldier sees a moving shadow in the next room, does he throw a grenade or does he checks if it is enemy or russian civilian? By killing the civilian as a russian, the team (or the soldier) could get some kind of penalty. The russians could get some kind of reward as well when they manage to protect a citizen from getting killed (like when they find one in a building, they can 'send him behind friendly lines to escape the battlefield' or even order them to follow you to a certain 'safehouse').

I know this element could produce some sadistic scenario's as well :) (like german soldiers executing those citizens) but still I think it would be cool. It would be realistic as well, since Stalin (while all men had to fight or get shot) prevented woman and children from leaving the city to dig trenches and build fortifications.
 
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#3
I would say the same thing, but take a look at what Wikipedia says about the battle of Stalingrad: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad[/URL]

"Many civilians were evacuated across the Volga. It has been said that Stalin prevented civilians from leaving the city in the belief that their presence would encourage greater resistance from the city's defenders. Civilians, including women and children, were put to work building trenchworks and protective fortifications."
 
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#4
Attilaken said:
I would say the same thing, but take a look at what Wikipedia says about the battle of Stalingrad: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad[/URL]

"Many civilians were evacuated across the Volga. It has been said that Stalin prevented civilians from leaving the city in the belief that their presence would encourage greater resistance from the city's defenders. Civilians, including women and children, were put to work building trenchworks and protective fortifications."
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That's horrific...

But....to the point, I guess it's possible there would be civilians in Stalingrad. More research is necessary, in my opinion. Wikipedia is ultimately something authored by who knows, and on top of that, the particular reference you quoted isn't able to say with full confidence that there were civilians in the city. "It has been said." In other words, that's hearsay and is effectively zilch in terms of actual evidence...that would not qualify in a court of law to say the least.
 
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#8
Seems like there was the "Order No. 227" from Stalin stating 'Not a step back!', soldiers but also civilians were considered cowards when they wanted to leave Stalingrad. Those so called cowards were shot immediatly or brought before a court. ([url]http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/not_one_step_back.htm[/URL])

The following link shows a group of civilians running for their lifes in Stalingrad while a german artillerystrike is taking place: [url]http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/defeat/catastrophe-stalingrad.htm[/URL]


So I think the statement actually could be true.
 
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#9
[TW]Wilsonam said:
Yes, there were some civilians trying to survive in the ruins, at least for a while. But letting players kill civilians? No, not our style - we'll leave that one to modern shooters and airport scenarios :)
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OK Wilsonam :)
Was just exploring the edges of realism into the game :rolleyes:
(and indeed the airport scenario you are talking about was really disgusting)
 
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#15
Fedorov said:
war is not meant to be fun! we want a game that gives us PTSD! :IS2:
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Hell, the way that they're loosening up the hoops to jump through to get treated for PTSD these days, you could probably qualify after taking a really strenuous dump, and then join the crowd of whiners that are taking up the time and resources of the system so that the guys that really do have a problem get lost in a crowd.


Sorry, can you tell I'm a little bitter about this particular subject? (Not for myself ... I don't have PTSD.)
 
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#17
Peter.Steele said:
Hell, the way that they're loosening up the hoops to jump through to get treated for PTSD these days, you could probably qualify after taking a really strenuous dump, and then join the crowd of whiners that are taking up the time and resources of the system so that the guys that really do have a problem get lost in a crowd.


Sorry, can you tell I'm a little bitter about this particular subject? (Not for myself ... I don't have PTSD.)
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I know alot of guys who never served in combat who say they have post traumatic stress disorder....
 
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#18
Nimsky said:
Civilians to protect / execute... man, the SS realism clans would have a field day with that.
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Well it is interesting to see and explore how far we want to go in a game where we request realism. As previously said, a game simulating all war elements would probably be no longer fun since it would become too raw and traumatic for some people. It is good Tripwire sets some boundaries around how far realism must go. Talking about boundaries: in the 80's there was a game (I never played it myself) that got a lot of critics because it was some kind of 'tycoon' game where you were the commander of a concentration camp, scoring points for eliminating prisoners. It was based on a historical war-element but of course it was way over the edge. I personally think civilians into the game would not be a step too far as long as it contains a gameplay element (like having extra difficulties in the battle because you need to protect them), but then again the more I read about it, that also would not be historically correct since every russian was supposed to fight in Stalingrad and the russian army was not busy protecting civilians.

So let's drop the idea, but thanks for the reply's !
 
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#19
[TW]Wilsonam said:
Yes, there were some civilians trying to survive in the ruins, at least for a while. But letting players kill civilians? No, not our style - we'll leave that one to modern shooters and airport scenarios :)
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I love you guys :D:eek:
Never thought of anything like this.. someone does.. and you guys already made it. This game is going to p00n every other WW II game ever made, i'm sure of that.
 
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