were you not paying attention?
This is not an issue about map design, but rather the game mechanics as a whole...
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MGs a bit underperforming?
- Thread starter stray cat
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were you not paying attention?
This is not an issue about map design, but rather the game mechanics as a whole...
Problem is that almost every spot where you can setup bi-pads without going prone are neatly framed window that makes you stick out so much.
It's artificial that machine gunners are forced to be stuck by window frames to use cover of buildings. It's not super crazy for experienced soldiers to avoid sticking their guns out the window so that they don't stick out.
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Been able to top kills many times with an MG; just a matter of practice and predicting movements also keeping a eye out for rifles to spray them from attempting to risk a shot.
MG's do work very well (even without bi-pod; they can clear rooms amazingly well with just free-aim).
MG's do work very well (even without bi-pod; they can clear rooms amazingly well with just free-aim).
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Absolutely wrong.
Realism in RO2 is not consistent. It is very realistic for MG handling, but not realistic for riflemen aiming down the sights standing and unsupported. Therefore MG has a large disadvantage. And "setting up in smart places" simply fails, because a machine gun, even in easy to see spot should be able to fend off attacking riflemen easily, many of them. But in RO2 you have to hide in obscure corners to get a shot off before they know where you are. And from what I read about ww2 machine guns they were fearsome deathtraps if attacked head on. And in RO1 it worked. People feared MGs. But in RO2 the MG has to be used like a sniper rifle, hiding in ambushes. And all of it is to blame on too little sway on unsupported weapons, and on the fact that all weapons get a default zoom + shift zoom, which makes shooting targets on range so easy for riflemen that even sniper rifles are only starting to have an advantage on 100+m.
So, Tripwire, go back to RO1 sway, it won't break the game and MGs will be actually useful, instead of being an overheating sniper rifle that is hard to setup.
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I think the rifles need adjusting very slightly but gotta say, youre probably not using the mg properly if you think like this.
Try this, go on to barracks, set yourself up at one end of a road. Make sure theres not loads of upper windows for riflemen to pick you off from above and nail any who crosses thedeadzone, works a treat.
If you put yourself out in the open surrounded by windows at multiple levels with snipers in, prepare for a short life on the mg
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...Do you people even realize what gameplay would be like if machinegunners were the invincible killing machines you seem to think they should be?
For one, a 16 player team will get about as many machinegunners as there are paths on many maps like Apartments. According to some of you, if a machinegunner should be able to, on his own, hold off against "many" enemy riflemen...and then you have your own team full of competent players supporting... Then every map that isn't wide open would be a stalemate. Apartments, for example, would be useless because any competent defender team will just slap an MGer at each entrance and call it a day.
...In addition to destroying gameplay, it still doesn't make sense. Rifles are pretty accurate. In RO2, engagement ranges are pretty short, almost always <100m. Yeah, a decent rifleman is going to be able to hit a stationary target at these ranges, and that stationary target, despite having a machinegun, is going to die when he is hit. You all like to complain about weapon sway, but weapon sway would only really be noticeable when standing...and I for one am very rarely shot by people standing in the open without resting their gun on some sort of cover.
For one, a 16 player team will get about as many machinegunners as there are paths on many maps like Apartments. According to some of you, if a machinegunner should be able to, on his own, hold off against "many" enemy riflemen...and then you have your own team full of competent players supporting... Then every map that isn't wide open would be a stalemate. Apartments, for example, would be useless because any competent defender team will just slap an MGer at each entrance and call it a day.
...In addition to destroying gameplay, it still doesn't make sense. Rifles are pretty accurate. In RO2, engagement ranges are pretty short, almost always <100m. Yeah, a decent rifleman is going to be able to hit a stationary target at these ranges, and that stationary target, despite having a machinegun, is going to die when he is hit. You all like to complain about weapon sway, but weapon sway would only really be noticeable when standing...and I for one am very rarely shot by people standing in the open without resting their gun on some sort of cover.
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Rifleman sway has been discussed to death in some other threads, and I forget that not everyone follows the same threads. My mistake.
Long story short, we have several accounts from real life gun enthusiasts (like myself) and actual combat veterans that swear up and down that sway is an unrealistic crutch designed to give the game balance. There IS sway in RO2, plenty to keep you from pulling off impossible shots. Shooting a stationary target from 200m is NOT an impossible shot. Easy? No. Something that a soldier in a combat situation can do with consistency? Yes. Real life machine gunners are trained not to frame themselves in windows, and to avoid becoming too stationary unless they are defending a clearly superior position (like a heavily guarded and supported pillbox). Seeing as how there aren't any pillboxes or the like yet, it makes sense that MGers need to be a lot more careful where they set up.
Sway is horribly unrealistic, and a cheap method of "balancing". The problem is not with the game, it's with your tactics. You're spoiled by other games that "balance" this kind of thing to make it "fair" for everyone. It's not fair. War is punishing, brutal, and very difficult. Consequently, there is quite a sharp learning curve for those of us spoiled by easier shooters (myself included). However, the difference between you and me is that I don't immediately blame the engine for my failings.
Adapt or die, mate.
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THAT is the real issue that needs to be figured out. There needs to be some better concealment for MGers that provides decent cover without overly exposing the soldier.
Of course, this might just come with everyone learning the maps. It might not. Who can say?
Or if you've been wounded.
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I agree that MGs are just plain not scary. Not once have I been suppressed, pinned, or just threatened by laid down mg fire. If i die to one, its for the same exact reason I would to a rifle. There's no real umph or kick to an mg that really makes it scary, and while your mounted your no more than a sitting duck. (as discussed)
I've had good moments with an mg, but not many. However, I probably could have done almost just as good with an smg. In gameplay terms, it just seems underpowered and almost pointless compared to other classes. When it comes to realism, I once again feel like its not scary enough. If i knew anything about WW2, its that a half decent MG position was something to fear.
I really think the mg would be a much better class if the game didn't feel so "sniper warfare" driven. In fact the game play as a whole I'd probably enjoy much, much more.
I've had good moments with an mg, but not many. However, I probably could have done almost just as good with an smg. In gameplay terms, it just seems underpowered and almost pointless compared to other classes. When it comes to realism, I once again feel like its not scary enough. If i knew anything about WW2, its that a half decent MG position was something to fear.
I really think the mg would be a much better class if the game didn't feel so "sniper warfare" driven. In fact the game play as a whole I'd probably enjoy much, much more.
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People also seem to get tunnel vision and stick in one spot for too long when they're MG. On Fallen fighters you can easily survive in a window as long as you fire in bursts, use the new duck-while-deployed cover they have, and change positions once in a while. I also noticed the static Russian MG tends to last longer because of the high sandbags. The static German MG doesn't have sandbags covering the top sides so you can get shot much more easily.
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I personally have no issues with the MG's.
The only problem for me is making sure I'm set up in an area where I won't get picked off by somene out of my main view.... that existed in RO1 & Mod, however now that there are more players and I'm still figuring out the maps, it happens more often.
But once I'm setup, anybody I see in my view, I take out in less than a second. I of course use short burst with the MG, which I've always done. There were maybe two targets I shot over their head and I ended up dead, but nobody's perfect.
I was playing Barracks last night as a Russian MG and once I figured out some good locations on the map, I was getting piles of kills, mowing down hoards of germans as they tried to run from one building to the next.... the best part was when I setup in a window aiming at another building where I was seeing a pile of germans running around in.
The Commander called in Arty on the building and sent a pile of bodies flying, I had no view into the windows from all the smoke from the arty, but as it all cleared, I could see in the windows a few heads popping out to take a look, which I finished off with a few pops of the MG.
Earlier I'd run into a building and go prone in the hallway with my team mates covering my rear & us all capping..... then a couple of germans turned the corner at the other end of the hallway. One was mowed down and the other wounded and ran back for cover. A few seconds later, he rounded the corner again to toss a grenade..... down he went before he could throw anything, then his grenade went off and killed two more of his team mates.
I held that spot during the entire cap and a minute or two after capping to ensure it was secured..... I probably took out 8 germans in that one spot and wasn't hit once.
MG's seem just fine to me.... so I'm confused as to why the MG slots are almost always available.
Of course then they're not, if I see an MG lying around on the ground, I take it.
Also, now that I can duck behind cover as well as reload behind cover, I find it easier to use the MG class than ever before.
The shorter my bursts, the less chance the enemy can locate me...... if they located me.... I drop my dosh and book it!
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Yea, i adapted. I'm going rambo all over. This is way more useful than an SMG.
And I'm going to be dropping your Rambo behind from the safety of my little hiding spots, close the distance, and steal all your land.
Enjoy!
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ONly chanse you really have is on realism servers, with no "show from location" thingies.. Finding a incredible hidden posision and stay there and just lock down something. Such as a street in barracs or, down a side in fallenfighters.
Its become way more difficult to be MGshooter, but damn once you find a neat spot. You win every duel
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ONly chanse you really have is on realism servers, with no "show from location" thingies.. Finding a incredible hidden posision and stay there and just lock down something. Such as a street in barracs or, down a side in fallenfighters.
Its become way more difficult to be MGshooter, but damn once you find a neat spot. You win every duel
It's exactly that kind of mentality that's getting you killed.
Don't stay in one place! Don't camp! They WILL find you and they WILL kill you, and you aren't doing anything to support your team if you're being hunted like a dog!
Shoot and scoot! Stay mobile! Be unpredictable! RO2 has introduced deadly consequences for predictability.
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Just adding my .02 because I love playing machine gunner position. I just finished my first long sit down with the game (about 2 hours). I played mostly machine gunner. I was able to rack up about 20+ kills a game and was able to aid my squadmates in moving up through the map. I don't see a problem with it. Sure I got killed when I was in stupid places but most of the time I was able to locate a nice covered position for the mg and just nail em.
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That's what flanking is for. Why flank when you can just pop shot the MG and be on your way?
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Yes. It's called focus.
I could launch into a long-winded explanation about how the human eye has a much greater resolution than your computer monitor, and FPSs as a rule run from a very zoomed out perspective, and the zoom in RO2 compensates for this inability to show objects in their actual size by zooming your screen when you go to aim, but I've explained it dozens of times in other threads, and I'm tired of explaining it.
The zoom is actually a LOT more realistic than RO1, which played out from a very zoomed out perspective. By zooming in, RO2 lets you hit targets that any half-decent shot could reasonably hit in real life.
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