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Locked levels based on difficulty

WhiteTigerShiro

Grizzled Veteran
Aug 25, 2010
149
50
Edit: Now with TLDR breakdown at the end of the post! :D

This is an idea that came-up in another topic, and I'm going to post it here just to see what other people's thoughts are on the matter. The idea came to me when I read the following quote:
I've said it a million times before, but I'll say it again. What KF really needs is an ability to roll back any perk levels you have unlocked to a lower level.

I've talked about 7 people into buying the game, but I can't play with them without it being stupidly easy for me, or unbelievably hard for them. Recently a bunch of my mates went into a suicidal game with me, and they were levels 2-4. By some miracle we actually survived the full game and wound up winning (I will admit I had to clutch it a few times) but it was the most fun I'd had in KF in ages. Sadly getting another game going is usually met with I cba, because it was so hard for them, and they had to keep relying on me.

I know a number of people take the stance that KF is dying, and tbh I might be inclined to agree. I don't play it anymore, simply because I've got noone to play the game with. If I could roll down to lower levels without having to start from scratch I think I'd still be playing today. I could set the server to hard, and then drop to level 3 or even 2 so we could have a good whack at it in even terms.

Basically, regardless of the balancing issues and glitches, the only real thing that can really save KF is the ability to roll down perks. Sadly I recently heard that, at least for the near future, this feature is impossible.

So sadly there isn't much we can do :(
To which I replied with the the following:

Perhaps each difficulty could be "Level Locked", so-to-speak. Basically, each difficulty would not let you use perks at higher effectiveness than a set Level, and would de-level any that are too high. For example, on an Easy server you cannot use any Perk above Level 2. If you use a Perk that you've gotten higher, then it'll be at it's Level 2 effectiveness. Normal servers could cap at Level 4, while Hard and Suicidal would have no limit. As to not discourage leveling players from playing on the servers, you can still get credit towards a perk, even if it's above the lock-out.
Not sure if there's anything else on which to specify, the idea might not be explained properly since the post was just a passing idea that I ripped straight from another topic. So I'll just open-up the floor for any feedback.

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TLDR VERSION Okay, so it's still kinda long, but it bullet-points things at least.
What is being suggested?
An option for server admins to toggle that would allow them to hard-cap perk levels. It could be based on difficulty, or it could be a value that the admin can adjust as he sees fit. An addition to this idea (but not an integral part of it) is that server admins could also set it so that you can only use perks which you've raised above a certain quota (for the purpose of preventing Level 0 players from joining Suicidal servers).

What would the Hard-cap be?
If it was a simple Yes/No toggle (defaulting to "No" so that the admin would have to specifically choose to hardcap his server), it would be 2 for Easy, 4 for Normal, while Hard and Suicidal would not have hardcaps. Another idea is that the hardcap could be a value that defaults at the max level (6 right now), but can be lowered to a smaller number by the server admin if he sees fit.

Why would this add to the game?
It would add to the game by letting long-time players play in games with friends who just picked-up the game without being massively over-leveled compared to them. This way a max-level player could play on a Normal/Easy server while his friends work on their perks without trivializing the content.

Just reset your perks, n00b!
Not everyone wants to re-do the grind of leveling to 6 on all their Perks.

What about that Mutator that lets you pick your Perk level?
That's all well-and-good, but it wouldn't allow your friends to level their perks. This is a suggestion that would let you down-rank your perks in a "whitelist"-friendly way.
 
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On option to add some kind of perk level limit would be nice for server admins but adding something like this as a default is not that good idea imo, because in some situations normal can actually become as challenging as hard or even suicidal. For example in certain mission maps, like uhm.. Damnation. So if the server was on normal and you loaded up Damnation, you could use only level 3-4 perks? Its already very hard with lvl 6 perks so youd be screwd.

It depends so much on the map, perks used and the team you are playing with.

But like I said, a server side option to limit perks would be a nice feature, nevertheless.
 
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I like the idea, setting an "EVERYONE IS AT LEAST LEVEL X" or "NO ONE IS OVER LEVEL X" or maybe both, on a server, would be awesome.

Because one level 6 Sharpshooter or Commando can make things really boring for everyone on an otherwise challenging Normal difficulty map. Or the guy with the level 1 Perks can feel useless when he's trying to play with his L5 friends.
 
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Potential Brainwave!

I just had a thought regarding being able to play with my lower level mates. I have no idea if it is possible, but I remembered someone saying "use the Perk Replacement Mutator". This obviously prevents my mates not being able to level up, giving them less incentive to play KF, so bad idea.

I have no idea if this is even possible but here goes.... is it at all possible with the engine to somehow make a mutator affect client side only? If so I could take the mutator for myself, be able to pick any level I wanted (obviously without levelling, but who cares at level 6?) without my friends having to lose the ability to level up in the process

I severely doubt it can be done by a modder, or possiblly even by the dev team themselves with how apparantly wierd and awkward steam achievements are, but I figured I would ask.
 
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I have no idea if this is even possible but here goes.... is it at all possible with the engine to somehow make a mutator affect client side only? If so I could take the mutator for myself, be able to pick any level I wanted (obviously without levelling, but who cares at level 6?) without my friends having to lose the ability to level up in the process
The perk sytem would be useless if this ever happens.
 
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The perk sytem would be useless if this ever happens.

Not neccissarily dude, by using the perk replacement mutator in any server the client will not be able to level perks, not really any different to using it in a perk replacement mut enabled server, except the people that they play with can still level.

I do see achievement grinding being a problem, but the suicidal ones are the holy grail anyway, which the mutator wouldn't make a difference for :)

That being said, it does make the whole process of playing up through the perk levels kind of superflous. Unless its not something included with the game, it may be better to have it as one people will have to download like the Perk Replacement mutator itself anyway.

Ideally I'd like to see my original suggestion implemented

Players should be able to roll down perk level to any lower level the player has already unlocked
But if this were done instead, it would be a compromise I could live with..... if it is even possible.
 
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It's just the fact that you shouldnt be able to level your perks with someone who is not leveling is perks (same server). Right now, you have 2 options.. play with your own perks or use the replacement mutator. Being able to mix those 2 options is not a good thing. But being able to choose a lower level is obviously a good idea.
 
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It's just the fact that you shouldnt be able to level your perks with someone who is not leveling is perks (same server). Right now, you have 2 options.. play with your own perks or use the replacement mutator. Being able to mix those 2 options is not a good thing. But being able to choose a lower level is obviously a good idea.

Yeah, tbh I agree, sadly thats the problem, cause I'm light years ahead of everyone else I know (in real life I mean) we simply can't play together.

Unless I go level 6 commando or something at the start then switch to medic and "forget" to buy armour. But even then, super speed and crazy healing is more than enough to get by on normal. (Mind you I used to be able to beat normal on level 0 anyway so thats a bad example :p), but you get my drift.

Its very hard to break habits like being on auto pilot when replenishing amrour and ammo. Suddenly even a game of Hard becomes a cakewalk cause I forget not to buy armour and then have to waste my limited non discounted money using nades to burn it out again.

Basically its a major faff, and more effort than its worth. :/
 
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This would make a good admin option. What exactly about it is impossible, at least in the near future?

Far as I understood it, it's something to do with connecting to steam to track the players stats. There was a thread for this idea a while back, that a dev replied to (Xienen I think) who explained that without a complete overhaul, and a mountain of work, this feature currently wasn't possible.

Still we can dream :)
 
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Far as I understood it, it's something to do with connecting to steam to track the players stats. There was a thread for this idea a while back, that a dev replied to (Xienen I think) who explained that without a complete overhaul, and a mountain of work, this feature currently wasn't possible.

Still we can dream :)

I see....perhaps a feature for KF2 then? :)
 
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Hmm?

Hmm?

You guys are sounding like lvl 1's and 2's 3's and 4's are useless in suicidal.
Have you become too greedy for a easy game? Half the fun is having it challenging, and not all the Lvl 1's and 2's etc are bad. They can still do great damage just like everyone else.. Its not a HUGE decrease.. Yes.. some aren't the best players, but that just gives the more err "mature" players a chance to teach the lowers a little about the game instead of ragging on them. I'm seeing alot of that during the games i've played in.
 
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You guys are sounding like lvl 1's and 2's 3's and 4's are useless in suicidal.
Have you become too greedy for a easy game? Half the fun is having it challenging, and not all the Lvl 1's and 2's etc are bad. They can still do great damage just like everyone else.. Its not a HUGE decrease.. Yes.. some aren't the best players, but that just gives the more err "mature" players a chance to teach the lowers a little about the game instead of ragging on them. I'm seeing alot of that during the games i've played in.

I persoanlly have no problem with level 4 players in a suicidal server. And tbh as long as people hold their own I'm not arsed about their level. But you never see level 1 or 2 players in Suicidal, cause they usually know better by then, and 0 and level 1 players are complete newbies to the game.

Only competant player I've seen in suicidal at level 2 was a mate of mine who decided to go Demo for LoLz :)

But I digress, already posted my opinion on this idea :)
 
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