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Haste and Updates

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Firewavedoom

Firewavedoom

Member
Dec 15, 2010
13
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#1
Before I begin may I ask a question... Did pipe bombs kill the beta tester's parents batman style? The price increase seems to be less balancing and more vengeful as time goes on.

Now its time to get to the root of the problem with the update, Haste. Not only were several Perk's roles violently altered by this update but it all happened AT THE SAME TIME. This is by no means ideal testing and only goes to show that the beta testers are not a suitable replacement for well educated game designers who understand that change is good but only in measured doses. Honestly the beta testers have their place in the community like everyone else but they are not infallible, sometimes everyone is just asking way too much from fans who clearly have their own preferences.

Edit: Ok it is reassuring that the update took 2 months of time to create ( I thought it was around 40 days or less ), still it would benefit the rest of the player base to see this change coming, because at least from my experience I saw no indication that I was in a for one hell of a wake-up call playing on hard in West London Argghh. I joined the forums to try to get a heads up so that won't happen again.
 
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#2
The changes were made by TWI, debated on by the community, a diverse set of gamers from all skillsets, over a period of roughly a month. Multiple changes were made as a result of the debate and discussion, thus resulting in multiple updates to the beta until you arrive at the final patch seen today.

This balance patch was needed, the devs had much say in the changes made, as did the community.
 
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#3
No one is infallible.

There is no such godlike "well educated game designer" that is completely free of error in the ranks of twi or any gaming company for that matter. Nope, not even blizzard.
After all, that patch that introduced many issues that are now addressed has been created by twi with probably little to no direct community input. So why are you now singling the community input out as the factor that "ruined kf"?
Speaking of community input, you act as if the community dictated all the changes and twi just mindlessly added everything suggested without giving it any thought on their own and without carefully adjusting things by small increments.
As for "haste", the beta was almost 2 months long.
Get your facts straight.

Now wipe the tears out of your eyes and take a look at all the things that have changed for the better and been fixed in this update.
You know, instead of complaining that a dev listened to the community which is oh-such a terrible thing.
How about that?
 
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#4
Every change in the balance patch was debated and tested by over 100 players over the course of 2 months. The changes are pretty good; they've solved a lot of problems 1014 had, and made the gameplay much more difficult yet more variable.


As for pipes, they can no longer be spammed, but I do agree that they're a little too unwieldy to use; too easy to "break" due to Sirens, fast-moving zeds, or your other explosives, and too slow to arm when you drop it right in front of a FP when you see him. Unfortunately, changing the pipe bomb mechanics would have been outside the range of the beta.

So while I do agree that pipes are a tad bit underpowered now, it's mostly due to easy-of-use problems for the user, not the power for price point issue itself. Perhaps if you could toss pipe bombs a small distance, between that of a grenade and a thrown weapon....
 
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#6
9_6 said:
You know, instead of complaining that a dev listened to the community which is oh-such a terrible thing.
How about that?
Click to expand...

I think every EVE Online player would absolutely love to be able to ***** about devs (CCP) playing their own game or listening to players. So a tip of the hat to TWI.

As far as pipe bombs, it was rather obnoxious when three of your teammates go Demolitions for the Patriarch round and start laying down a beeping carpet outside the trader's door. At least now you're lucky/ absolutely need a charitable donation to lay down 8 of them.
 
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#8
Wall of text again might take awhile to post sorry about the delay.

I am well aware of the size of the studio and the demands that are placed on them at this time, however the main issue is not KF IS RUINED FOREVER or some other drivel that people are posting. I am not directly or intentionally commenting on the changes. I am merely saving that it is a very bad idea to change the game so quickly, remember most of the player base is seeing these updates for the first time unlike the beta testers who clearly have an idea what to expect. The problem is not that the community was a part of the updates; quite the opposite, but that they did not allow for the rest of the player base to have a chance to adapt to them before the update and the MASSIVE changes that it brought, good or bad changes take getting used to and all at once this is not a welcome thing.I never once said that the updates were bad nor that I hated Tripwire (quite the opposite) or that there are Godlike devs. I said that regardless or the amount or time that went into making the update the rest of us did not see a single change to the game before this bombshell dropped. Good or bad too much change at once is never healthy. Balance changes were in order I agree just not a shift that is literally

On an off note 9_6 read my post then attack me personally. Although you do get points for proper grammar.
 
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#9
So now you still insist it happened "quickly". And then you tell me to read your post again. Ain't that precious?
Also me attacking your baseless claims = attacking you.
Yeah, keep telling yourself that but don't even pretend this was uncalled for.

We waited like what, a year for the changes this patch brought you know.
Who says we won't be waiting another year for the next one?
Who says there will even be another patch? Yes this might even be the last one, go figure.
But you surely know that, right? Surely you do inform yourself before complaining away, right?

Many changes were called for, many changes were made.
This is nothing you could've solved with a few subtle ones and it's also nothing that can be solved cut and dry.
The beta was public at any given time, changelogs for every single patch and discussion about it included.
How you could not see anything coming is beyond me. Unless you didn't look.

So the community being part of it isn't the problem, it being made "hastily" is an outright fabrication and so is the fact that this patch hasn't been announced whatsoever and came as a complete surprise.
Did I forget something or was that the complete base of your complaint?
 
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#10
i think what he means by "hastily" is that too many drastic changes were made in such a short time period in terms of the amount of balance updates released. previous to the LevelUp update, balance changes were made more frequently but less dramatic in scale. that way the masses of players weren't forced to adjust to such immense gameplay changes at such a quick pace. for the large majority of players who do not even visit these forums, i'd imagine that there were many changes which were quite shocking to them as certain things that have been in the game since it was first released have changed.

imo, it was a mistake to wait a full year after the last major update and release all of these balance changes at once, especially since some of them really needed more testing. ideally, most of these changes should have started getting addressed a month or two after the LevelUp update and small updates been spread out over the past 12 months leading up to the Christmas event. of course, it didn't work out that way and we're now stuck with the problem of still having to fix issues that the 2 month beta still didn't completely fix. were most of the changes needed? yes. did most of them turn out well? yes. did some of them flop? yes. is there more work to be done? yes.

apologies for the "warm" welcome Firewavedoom (sarcasm intended).....it tends to happen a lot around here these days :rolleyes:
 
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#11
-[SiN]-bswearer said:
apologies for the "warm" welcome Firewavedoom (sarcasm intended).....it tends to happen a lot around here these days :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Bah. Just fighting ignorance.
He chose this welcome when introducing himself with a baseless complaining thread.

If you have to complain, make sure you at least have the integrity to back your complaint up.
Cause we sure have more than enough complaining right now.

There are more than enough more legitimate things to complain about.
The extent of this patch alone is no such thing. If anything, that is something to commend twi for.
 
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#12
-[SiN]-bswearer said:
i think what he means by "hastily" is that too many drastic changes were made in such a short time period in terms of the amount of balance updates released. previous to the LevelUp update, balance changes were made more frequently but less dramatic in scale. that way the masses of players weren't forced to adjust to such immense gameplay changes at such a quick pace. for the large majority of players who do not even visit these forums, i'd imagine that there were many changes which were quite shocking to them as certain things that have been in the game since it was first released have changed.

imo, it was a mistake to wait a full year after the last major update and release all of these balance changes at once, especially since some of them really needed more testing. ideally, most of these changes should have started getting addressed a month or two after the LevelUp update and small updates been spread out over the past 12 months leading up to the Christmas event. of course, it didn't work out that way and we're now stuck with the problem of still having to fix issues that the 2 month beta still didn't completely fix. were most of the changes needed? yes. did most of them turn out well? yes. did some of them flop? yes. is there more work to be done? yes.

apologies for the "warm" welcome Firewavedoom (sarcasm intended).....it tends to happen a lot around here these days :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Yes they should have put small balance patches out within a few months of Level Up. But they didn't. Everyone who has stuck it out with this game for the last 18 months to 2 years could agree that we desperately needed this patch, and imo it improves the game out of sight. And I wasn't even involved with testing I just don't mind if I die a couple of times while learning the new ways to deal with scrakes.
 
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#14
I didn't play the beta, but I watched the process in the forums here. I have to say, I'm really impressed with Tripwire for their continued support of Killing Floor, and I think the beta testers did an excellent job given the nature of the balance patch. They've really kicked the game up a notch, I'm having more fun than ever.
 
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#15
9_6 we don't get along and you don't like me, I get that. However, I did not say the updates were bad, only that they were sudden and jarring. Community input is important and helpful. I do get where tripwire is and the reason behind the updates, which I do appreciate. The way this game moves forward from here and from the generous work of the devs is to continue tweaking the game and fixing the various errors and issues. I am attempting to add my input to how this game moves forward. If I sound annoying I apologize. The pipe bomb comment was meant as a joke not the main focus.
 
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#16
The only thing I would agree on is that players who knew nothing of the Beta and weren't expecting any update must have been pretty shocked by the number of alterations. KF post beta is like a brand new game, and players will have to relearn it all over again. I personally relish this challenge, but some people won't, so I think I see part of your arguement.

However the root of all the backhand replies is the implication of your first post where you suggest that the Beta is of poor standard and the Beta testers recommended alot of substandard alterations to the game. You tried to recover it in your subsequent post but sadly the damage has already been done.

The fact of the matter is the game has been broken for along time. Even the most biased and intellectual player simply couldn't argue that the Sharpshooter and Pipe Bomb stacking wasn't massively overpowered. There were a alot of subtle changes to the game that needed bringing in too, but these are the ones that are the biggest game changers. Even with all the other changes, the fact that these 2 MAJOR problems have been solved has immediately improved the game 10 fold.

That mere fact alone rubbishes any notion that the beta has not been successful, and everything else is merely gravy.
 
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