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  #61  
Old 03-01-2014, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Fishsticks View Post
Sounds shady .. Similar to a used car salesman telling you the 88' Toyota Camry on the lot purrs like a kitten and will outrun a new vette.
No not really its an accepted business tactic and a very successful one.
The smaller developers need to use every means to get their games heard and seen.
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  #62  
Old 03-01-2014, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ButchCassidy View Post
No not really its an accepted business tactic and a very successful one.
The smaller developers need to use every means to get their games heard and seen.
CoD does it every year so it must be good
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  #63  
Old 03-01-2014, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by =GG= Mr Moe View Post
I just feel like I'm banging my head against the wall this morning. Thank God I have an extra large mug of coffee...
me thinks you forgot where you are posting!!
  #64  
Old 03-01-2014, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ButchCassidy View Post
...<snip>

You can't please everyone, not if you want to stay in business....

<snip>
Ah...trying to please everyone.....This is where the wheels finally came off for RO2, imo. Because of the rough start and new play style, at first the lugnuts came off. Many never to be found again. All of the attention (classic, serverside game adjustments, SWS, etc) given to trying to replace said lugnuts, were too little too late and resulted in no single wheel getting the attention it deserved. Alas, all of the wheels started to come off. If TW's vision of the game did not match the lugnuts (the RO vets), then perhaps they should have just pressed on and spent their time, money and energy on their vision.

As for the success and the longevity of RO2, RS has had a large part to play in its longevity. It brought in and help keep the players that 'have' to play with American weapons. And it added different elements to the gameplay of RO reviving the game a little. I wish for In-Country the same success.


I will have to say that it appears that the business model concept used in RS worked well. I think gamers, modders, and would be game software engineers should applaud TW for their ingenuity and follow through. From the bleachers, I would seem as though it was a win/win for all involved.


But this is about whitelisting.......
Sadly with the choice to use perks and level ups and in the manner in which RO2 uses them, I can see the need for whitelisting. But I still don't see any need for the ranked/unranked tab. As I've said in another thread, imo, their use is just catering to the lazy and the ignorant who choose to remain so. Such is not a practice I condone in real life, nor from my employees. If one can't be bothered to put forth at least the most minute amount of effort to learn how to use something they've just spent their hard earned money on, who's fault is that? You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Its apparent to me that they're not invested in looking for the experience I am.
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  #65  
Old 03-01-2014, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Floyd View Post
Ah...trying to please everyone.....This is where the wheels finally came off for RO2, imo. Because of the rough start and new play style, at first the lugnuts came off. Many never to be found again. All of the attention (classic, serverside game adjustments, SWS, etc) given to trying to replace said lugnuts, were too little too late and resulted in no single wheel getting the attention it deserved. Alas, all of the wheels started to come off. If TW's vision of the game did not match the lugnuts (the RO vets), then perhaps they should have just pressed on and spent their time, money and energy on their vision.
Totally agree Floyd..TWI should not have tried to please everyone.

Quote:
As for the success and the longevity of RO2, RS has had a large part to play in its longevity. It brought in and help keep the players that 'have' to play with American weapons. And it added different elements to the gameplay of RO reviving the game a little. I wish for In-Country the same success.
In-country is a mod I am really looking forward too.

Quote:
I will have to say that it appears that the business model concept used in RS worked well. I think gamers, modders, and would be game software engineers should applaud TW for their ingenuity and follow through. From the bleachers, I would seem as though it was a win/win for all involved.
Personally I thought they were mad, until a business friend pointed out what Was happening.
In the end the commercial result was the payoff for the strategy.
Unorthodox but I suppose that's in-line with with TWI's style.

Quote:
But this is about whitelisting.......
Sadly with the choice to use perks and level ups and in the manner in which RO2 uses them, I can see the need for whitelisting. But I still don't see any need for the ranked/unranked tab. As I've said in another thread, imo, their use is just catering to the lazy and the ignorant who choose to remain so. Such is not a practice I condone in real life, nor from my employees. If one can't be bothered to put forth at least the most minute amount of effort to learn how to use something they've just spent their hard earned money on, who's fault is that? You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Its apparent to me that they're not invested in looking for the experience I am.
I must admit I was surprised at the ranked server thing when it was announced but not the white listing.
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  #66  
Old 03-01-2014, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ButchCassidy View Post
I have say moe its a quaint idea about the life of fish but there is no pond, there is just an ocean and you better be a good swimmer or you drown real quick.
You really don't understand.

The pond (or lake or whatever) represents players similar to me. The ocean represents players similar to those, say COD.

Produce a certain type game aimed at those pond number, there are much much less games aimed at those type players. Call it game A. Game B is aimed at the ocean crowd. There are many many many games like Game B, including some games so big that Game B isn't even a second, third or even fourth choice for players to buy. Result, Game A could actually sell more than Game B.

Using the following hypothetical example: This says the leveling loving players (ocean numbers) outnumber those like me (pond numbers) 2-1.

Game A sells 25% out of 1000 players (pond numbers)
Game B sells 10% out of 2000 players (ocean numbers)

Which fish is better off, the one that sold Game A, or the one that sold Game B? Who sold more games?

Of course, the ratio of those type players could be much higher or lower and there will always be overlap as far as player purchases.

So, just because you aimed for the Ocean crowd doesn't always mean you will be better off.
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  #67  
Old 03-01-2014, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by =GG= Mr Moe View Post
You really don't understand.

The pond (or lake or whatever) represents players similar to me. The ocean represents players similar to those, say COD.

Produce a certain type game aimed at those pond number, there are much much less games aimed at those type players. Call it game A. Game B is aimed at the ocean crowd. There are many many many games like Game B, including some games so big that Game B isn't even a second, third or even fourth choice for players to buy. Result, Game A could actually sell more than Game B.

Using the following hypothetical example: This says the leveling loving players (ocean numbers) outnumber those like me (pond numbers) 2-1.

Game A sells 25% out of 1000 players (pond numbers)
Game B sells 10% out of 2000 players (ocean numbers)

Which fish is better off, the one that sold Game A, or the one that sold Game B? Who sold more games?

Of course, the ratio of those type players could be much higher or lower and there will always be overlap as far as player purchases.

So, just because you aimed for the Ocean crowd doesn't always mean you will be better off.
Smells fishy to me!
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  #68  
Old 03-01-2014, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ButchCassidy View Post
Smells fishy to me!
You didn't answer butch...
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  #69  
Old 03-01-2014, 02:48 PM
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I can give other example using other things.

Take pub patrons. Some like baseball, others like football (using football because it could be US football or 'soccer')

More patrons like football compared to baseball, so all the existing pubs show football on the television. This leaves out those pub patrons that like baseball.

Do you think opening a pub that shows baseball on the television would get those sports fans to go there?
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  #70  
Old 03-01-2014, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by =GG= Mr Moe View Post
I can give other example using other things.

Take pub patrons. Some like baseball, others like football (using football because it could be US football or 'soccer')

More patrons like football compared to baseball, so all the existing pubs show football on the television. This leaves out those pub patrons that like baseball.

Do you think opening a pub that shows baseball on the television would get those sports fans to go there?
I can't speak for any others but I simply like going to the pub..and that's not an analogy.. Lol
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  #71  
Old 03-01-2014, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ButchCassidy View Post
I can't speak for any others but I simply like going to the pub..and that's not an analogy.. Lol
Ok Butch, me too.

However, since you didn't answer, I will take that as a silent acknowledgement that you recognize my point (and game sales example) as being very valid and a very real possibility.

So to sum up, you have the potential (very slim though) of selling more games by catering to that wider audience just because there are more of those players, but there is a very real chance you would ultimately sell more games by catering to a more selective audience.
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  #72  
Old 03-02-2014, 02:20 AM
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Originally Posted by =GG= Mr Moe View Post
Ok Butch, me too.

However, since you didn't answer, I will take that as a silent acknowledgement that you recognize my point (and game sales example) as being very valid and a very real possibility.

So to sum up, you have the potential (very slim though) of selling more games by catering to that wider audience just because there are more of those players, but there is a very real chance you would ultimately sell more games by catering to a more selective audience.
Well no actually, the fact that some one does not answer a question does not by definition mean they agree with you...lol..
And your example above is not one I think any game developer making fps games would use as a business strategy.

Why are you searching for examples when the facts are staring you in the face.
TWI purposfully reached out to capture a wider audience and ended up selling more games than ever before.
There is your example...no fish, no pond and sadly no pub..lol
I appreciate that you were/are disappointed with RO2 for a variety of reasons and indeed there are things I was/am not happy with in their game and these can sometimes influence our views but that does not mean that TWI made an incorrect decision commercially in fact they made exactly the right decision to ensure the continued existence of the company.
As they have stated several times RO2 and RS have been massively successful and by far the biggest selling games TWI have produced to date.

We are wandering off topic here so I won't answer any reply with regards to this subject.
With regards to whitelisting, I personally think it should stay as I understand and agree with the reasons for it.
Ranked / unranked again I think it should stay as that is tied to whitelisting but TWI could consider merging the two but i'm not personally bothered if they do or don't.
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Last edited by ButchCassidy; 03-02-2014 at 05:42 AM.
  #73  
Old 03-02-2014, 03:02 AM
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Yeah I think he was trying to say that instead of trying to rule the FPS market, they should have just tried to rule the niche portion of the FPS market that plays these kinds of games. Instead they kind of missed out on both. That said however, I wouldn't mind betting that a pretty solid portion of that niche FPS market actually purchased the game.
  #74  
Old 03-02-2014, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by ButchCassidy View Post
Well no actually, the fact that some one does not answer a question does not by definition mean they agree with you...lol..
And your example above is not one I think any game developer making fps games would use as a business strategy.

Why are you searching for examples when the facts are staring you in the face.
TWI purposfully reached out to capture a wider audience and ended up selling more games than ever before.
If you think that ROOST and to some extent, Killing Floor (with regard to TWI's reputation) had nothing to do with the sales/success of ROHOS, I think that you are just trying to dismiss facts. Nowhere do I say that ROHOS has not been a success nor do I deny that reaching out to a 'wider' audience will gather some more players, but to what extent? Alienating an even larger portion of their previous 'niche' audience? Of course, in this case, that portion of their niche audience was 'suckered/conned/misled' into buying the game. Afterall, didn't TWI say the pre-order and release day sales of ROHOS were more or at least close to all of ROOST sales combined over all the years? Or do you think that is an insignificant number? Sure, its good that TWI got the money from the game sales, but it would have been better if they kept those customers as continued players too. Believe it or not, that is actually important too, repeat customer retention and repeat business.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ButchCassidy View Post
... but that does not mean that TWI made an incorrect decision commercially in fact they made exactly the right decision to ensure the continued existence of the company.
They made A decision, and while I won't argue it was wrong, I will argue it was not necessarily the best one, and I stand by my remarks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by titsmcgee852 View Post
Yeah I think he was trying to say that instead of trying to rule the FPS market, they should have just tried to rule the niche portion of the FPS market that plays these kinds of games. Instead they kind of missed out on both. That said however, I wouldn't mind betting that a pretty solid portion of that niche FPS market actually purchased the game.
Yes, thank you, that is what I am saying. And yes, a good portion of that (previous) niche market did buy the game I think, but were disappointed and are no longer around as mentioned above. That personally does not look like a good business move.

--------------------

With regards to whitelisting, since that is still the topic, removing the separate tabs seems to be the more popular response here and over the years. I've already stated my opinions on ranking, so it seems that a filter option would be a better option. This would allow all servers to be lumped together and this would possibly make unranked servers running un-whitelisted mutators more visible.
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  This is the last developer post in this thread.   #75  
Old 03-02-2014, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by =GG= Mr Moe View Post

With regards to whitelisting, since that is still the topic, removing the separate tabs seems to be the more popular response here and over the years. I've already stated my opinions on ranking, so it seems that a filter option would be a better option. This would allow all servers to be lumped together and this would possibly make unranked servers running un-whitelisted mutators more visible.
With that in mind there is a thread on this topic already: http://forums.tripwireinteractive.co...ad.php?t=98221
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