Class Selection

LemoN said:

I disagree.

Squads should be unlocked after they are 3/4 or so filled, so as soon as 6 players are on one side a second squad should automatically be opened up.

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Squads bring diversity to Gameplay as the smallest size for a squad is 4 that sounds like a reasonable smallest size. RO got 8v8, 16v16, 32v32 sized maps, if 8v8 is just 1 single squad with only the ability to attack 1 single cap zone at a time, then there is no diversity whatsoever left in small squad sizes. Especially if all load outs are predetermined on a per squad basis allowing for no diversity of tactics in the sense of say assault and rifle squads.

Next to that players should be able to swap squad easily without losing their weapon. If you force people to be in a squad they do not necessarily work in a team if anything they might ruin things. You cannot force people to utilize teamwork, doing so will result in those people terrorizing those that actually want to. I'd personally rather have squads be like in the tanks with the ability for a squad leader to lock a squad, so a group that really wants to work together can.

looking at this makes me sad =( Because I realize how small 64 player battles are!

Hopefully bigger servers

Nicholas said:

I'm not trying to micromanage everything that gets put in the game, its just that in RO1 there were way to many semi's and smg's, and in some cases not enough MG's and bolts.

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Although In general I agree that of some classes there were too many especially on 50 player servers. It isn't uncommon to only see about 5 rifleman total on such servers. If you want the load outs to change you need to create your own thread for that.

AA3 has the squad and weapon unlock feature based upon number of players. It works well for that game as a realism technique and a method of producing the experience the US Army is trying to convey. But would those features apply here?

Personally, I'm somewhat on the fence as to whether or not squad specific loadouts (based upon the maps parameters) or the number of squads available from the start should be implemented. I see pros and cons.

Also, assuming that the information we've heard from Ramm with regard to being rewarded for teamwork (ie following SL and/or commander commands) applies to MP as well as the SP campaign. The logistics of how to award points becomes an issue. How many squads or squad leaders can a side have? How many people to a squad? What happens if the max squad size is 8, there is one squad and a 9th person joins the team? (or there are two squads of 4 and the 9th person joins?)hmmm....

Scoring issues aside, I suppose I'd lean more toward open and varied squad sizes, the ability to join the squad of your choice with the weapon of your choice, and/or the ability to roam free. But the emphasis toward teamwork must be paramount.

Zetsumei said:

Squads bring diversity to Gameplay as the smallest size for a squad is 4 that sounds like a reasonable smallest size. RO got 8v8, 16v16, 32v32 sized maps, if 8v8 is just 1 single squad with only the ability to attack 1 single cap zone at a time, then there is no diversity whatsoever left in small squad sizes. Especially if all load outs are predetermined on a per squad basis allowing for no diversity of tactics in the sense of say assault and rifle squads.

Next to that players should be able to swap squad easily without losing their weapon. If you force people to be in a squad they do not necessarily work in a team if anything they might ruin things. You cannot force people to utilize teamwork, doing so will result in those people terrorizing those that actually want to. I'd personally rather have squads be like in the tanks with the ability for a squad leader to lock a squad, so a group that really wants to work together can.

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You can write as much as you like, I don't agree. I don't ever want to see a squad without bolts, 3 MG's and 5 smg's.

Of course one could write mutators to disable class limits for clan gaming (which is something I don't care about in RO).

Keep in mind that the role selection screen doesn't have to be just one screen in which all the info gets cluttered. It can consist of multiple tabs; one tab for the role & weapon selection, one for the squad layout & player list and perhaps one for viewing and changing your soldier's looks (rolled up sleeves, helmet camo etc).

In my opinion BFBC2 handles squad and weapon selection very well, it's very intuitive.

LemoN said:

You can write as much as you like, I don't agree. I don't ever want to see a squad without bolts, 3 MG's and 5 smg's.

Of course one could write mutators to disable class limits for clan gaming (which is something I don't care about in RO).

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Did you even read what I wrote before. I gave MG's exactly as an example for limiting a max of 1mg per squad with a system similar to the load out in the first screen.

But then for instance having 2 mg's available while there are for instance 4 squads. Those 2 mg's then cannot join one squad together, but they can join any of the squads that doesn't have a mg. Sure depending on how many people join the server open up more classes as has been said.

I simply do not want every squad to have a mg, elite rifleman, elite assault, marksman etc. I want a regular global class selection screen where rare classes stay rare, while afterwards people can join a squad. So one squad out of all squads will be happy to have a hero among there rank rather than every squad having a hero.

So that people with say a rare class can use it in the squad where its most needed. If you have a squad fighting long range at a flank smgs are far less important than rifleman. Similarly a squad fighting on the inside primarily needs more smgs.

I'd rather have it that in the game one elite rifleman joins any squad of choice, or one elite assault joins a squad of choice. Rather than locking people down to selecting weaponry within a squad.

A squad of 8 people is pretty hard to manage as a squad leader, especially for the maps with lower player amounts using squads of 4-5 people result to easier teamwork for a squad and more squads so more spawn locations and diversity in game play. In small groups of 4 people its much easier to communicate without things getting cluttered.

Even in competitive clan matches with 8v8 the communications can easily get cluttered and you losing sight of everybody. With a smaller group you are more likely to stay together.

very cool Susi...I like that very much.