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Fix the PPSh

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#41
Scarf Ace said:
And finally, Germans looted the PPSh en masse for an important reason. Both sides knew very well it was the better weapon. TWI used unrealistic balance adjustments to make it worse at low levels and force the unlock system down our throats.
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You're flat out wrong once more.

The Germans occasionally picked up the PPSH not because it was a better weapon, but because in certain periods during the war the ammunition for it was A LOT easier to get hold of. It's the exact same reason they occasionally took possession of so many other foreign weapons, like the SVT40 or M1 Carbine. Now this ofcourse has spawned a lot of myths about some weapons being so good that soldiers immediately dropped their own to get them, whilst in reality it was all about actually having something to shoot with in the first place!, and not about this or that weapon being better than the other.

That having been said the Germans found the 71 round mag on the PPSH useful when fighting in urban areas, infact it was the one feature they really loved about the weapon.

Had the Germans thought of the PPSH as a superior weapon compared to the MP40 alltogether, then they quite simply would've made their own improved version, just as they did everytime they came across something they found was superior to their own kit. That didn't happen with the PPSH though, and that because it really wasn't something that special, there were other drum fed SMGs out there that were better, like for example the Finnish Suomi M31, which the Germans were quite familliar with after years of training with the Finns.
 
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#42
Unus Offa said:
That having been said the MP40 is more accurate, and it should be cause it is in reality as-well. The MP40 is about the most accurate & controllable SMG in full auto made during the second world war, and it was quite loved by the troops. The Allies even used to pick them up for themselves instead of the Tommy gun, since unlike the Tommy it didn't rattle when being swung around and it was more controllable in full auto fire.
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Was it accurate enough to give rifles run of their money in marksman duties with full auto fire? That's something MP40 can easily do in RO2, you can make rifles look miserable weapons say in Fallen Heroes when you just press MB1 down after you just adjust sights to 200m. ;)
 
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#46
I dont understand why TW dont just make the Drum mag default and the box mag unlockable.
Nr1 this would be more accurate as most infantrymen had the drum mag and not a box mag.
And that would balance the mp40 and ppsh41 more as the ppsh41 would have an advantage as to the amount of lead it could put down range.
And to make the box mag still usefull they could just give it some advantages.
For example the ppsh41 with a box mag was more then 1kg lighter then with a drum mag.
The box mag was also easier and faster to Reload.
And served as a better handhold then the drum.
So they could pretty much make the box Faster to Reload with less Recoil and sway (to simulate less weight and better Grip.
If Tw made for this change im pretty sure it would both balance the mp40 and ppsh41 and be more historically accurate.
 
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#47
Oldih said:
Was it accurate enough to give rifles run of their money in marksman duties with full auto fire? That's something MP40 can easily do in RO2, you can make rifles look miserable weapons say in Fallen Heroes when you just press MB1 down after you just adjust sights to 200m. ;)
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If your sight is set correctly and you hold down the trigger, I'd hate to be on the other end of your MP40 in real life even at 200 meters. The whizz of the bullets passing close by would no doubt make my aim noticably worse, and unless I am in a prone position (like standing tall despite being shot at as some like doing ingame) there's a good chance you'll get me before I can get you with my rifle.

Hitting someone at 200 m with the MP40 is very hard ingame though, and extremely hard on full auto. The riflemen will definitely get you first at that range unless you just let the guy with the SMG shoot at you all day.

So really, you guys are complaining about an issue that aint there, as these two guns actually perform quite closely to their real world counterparts.
 
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#52
theta123 said:
Or just a sign of german bias
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orly-mini.jpg


We got a smart one here, better take cover.

Just a little joke... jeez guys.
 
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#53
The PPSh is not broken IMO. Just earlier today I was killing people at 100+ yards with single shots to the heart/face. If you actually bother to take the time to squeeze off one round at a time the gun is just as accurate as anything else in the game. If anything I guess it has a tad too much recoil (very slightly). On this point I have mixed feelings, because on the one hand maybe some people aren't trying hard enough to counter it's recoil, but on the other hand per-shot it has noticeably more recoil than the MP-40 + twice the RoF.
 
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#54
FBOTheLiuetenant said:
The PPSh is not broken IMO. Just earlier today I was killing people at 100+ yards with single shots to the heart/face.
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Yeah. Me too.
Works like charm if server aint laggy.
That might be just the thing though...

This is what happened to me today:
-When playing on fairly laggy server 160 ping, 50 players
-I had PPSh and enemy was at some 60 meters peeking over a fence
-I aimed at his head and fired 2 shots
-He put his head down for a moment but no kill
-He raised his head again and I fire again
-He lowers head again, no kill
-He raises head again (what an idiot! :))
-Fired again few shots
-Again, no luck

I was like WTF? :confused: No way I miss his head 3 times...
And this is not the first time this thing happens!

So I tested this by shooting at a wall and I noticed that:
- Often when shooting 2 shot bursts there was only one bullet hole in the wall, the second one
- Sometimes when shooting single shot with fast click there would be no bullet hole at all

So I'm thinking, does lag cause packet loss and "loss of bullets" in high fire rate gun like PPSh?
That would definately explain my occasional bad luck with PPSh when shooting long range. First shot is unregistered, second goes over their head and they take cover etc.

Everything works fine when server works fine though. I just Hope they fix the server/ping issues by tomorrow.
 
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#58
I kind of figured that it hadn't changed.

The main difference between the MP40 and PPSh at range is the PPSh user has to aim low and fire off a chirp of shots.

The MP-40 can put more rounds on target with a more consistent stream of fire.

The MP-40 is a more generalized weapon that performs well under most circumstances. The PPSh is far more specialized for CQC.

About the only imbalance between them that I've noticed is the MP-40 seems to penetrate cover far better than the PPSh. But maybe that's true to life (I wouldn't know) or I'm just having selective recall. But when I try to shoot through cover with the PPSh, I get no joy and I'm regularly killed by MP-40s through non-wooden cover.
 
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#59
There are particular areas, Barracks is the best example, where the PPSh can penetrate like a son-of-a-gun. Recall the main hallway in NCO barracks, the walls at either end are plaster and brick, the PPSh can go through those with absolute ease. Most plaster type walls can be penetrated by pretty much any gun, the one aspect of penetration that has made it unpredictable for me is the impact made by subtle changes in thickness. There was talk about bugs with the penetration system, and from what I remember it bases penetration off of three things, the round being fired, the thickness of the wall, and specific information tied to the texture on the wall. This has lead to some walls with a plaster side and a brick side being only one-way penetratable. But other than a few little things like that penetration with the PPSh seems to be on-par with the MP-40.
 
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#60
Plaster and wood seem fine. It's brick that's been questionable. I'm pretty keen on shooting people through cover so I try it a lot, and on average I don't seem to get the same performance out of the PPSh in that regard as I do the MP40. It'd be nice to know if, by the numbers, there is actually an inherent difference. Something only the devs could tell us.
 
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