[suggestion] Commisars house, let us russians blow more **** up.

[Joseph-Porta]

Ok, I know I will get a sh*tstorm for speaking out this issue once again i but im gonna try to throw in a suggestion that might help the Russians atlest to get out of spawn and cap A before the round ends with 200 - 0 reinforcements Axis - Allies.
The last months i have not seen a single game where the Russians have gotten past C.

I just want to list the thoughts that have risen to me during the last 30+ horrible defeats and incredible easy victories I have had on this map.

The problem as I see it now is in four places.

#One, you have the gap between the two major constructs at the Water works. The Germans can just put up a MG34 here and cut down everything that tries to advance to A.

#Two, The Russians are too easily mowed down at B from a position at the back of the house at A, flanking them and shooting them through smoke through what seems to be a frequent bug where you can see through smoke.

#Three, the Russians have to get to the sides of A and enter the house.
The problem here is that its too easy for the Germans to just rush the second floor and gun down whatever manages to get to the house. Provided they are able to even get past the MG at B cross firing through the smoke towards their approach. And generally just, racks up massive amounts of kills due to the cover provided by the walls and being out of reach from hand granades.


So. Suggestions at how to improve this map.. Right.

1# Blow more stuff up.

Let the engineers have more jobs to do on this map.

On the Russian side of the house at A, simply being able to blast a hole or two through the wall at A could help a lot. It would have to be a pretty big hole.. So the Russians have an slightly more covered approach. Right now its blind luck to get past, usually it seems to be Germans lucky grenades or they have to reload that let people pass.

I am thinking something along the lines of RedOctober Factory where just blowing some holes in the first house really helps the Russians to being able to approach the house when the Germans hold the flanks.

#2 The crossfire from B to A

A big problem is the said incredible excellent position at the waterworks (B) shooting from the path between the walls and through the gate between A and B into the Russian approach.
What can be done here to help is simply.. Move the tank wreck of the T34 a few meters and perhaps block up this approach a bit more.

#3 The crossfire from A to B

There is currently a lot of windows covering B from A. most of these are walled up by bricks.. perhaps do the same with the remaining two windows at the back?

4# The approach towards B.

I know its already been helped out with the trench towards the water works. But anyways perhaps open up the fence at the approach towards B a bit more so that we don't have this 3 meter wide bottleneck that is in my experience way too easy to defend at the moment.

5# Tanks.

I don't know if this is server settings, but how about 2 Russian tanks vs 1 German tank such as on Red October Factory

The biggest problem though I fear is simply the players stacking the favored teams on maps, that is something that is pretty hard to change =(

Let me know what you think, and before you say "No the map is fine". No it is not fine, something is wrong.

[rancenstein]

1# Blow more stuff up.

There are already I think 2 places you can blow up in A to take the building faster, I think another hole that make a entrance would make it too easy for the russians since the german can't do anything to stop them there. Also you can already cap A from the outside

#2 The crossfire from B to A

Its already easy to block with smoke grenades in my opinion.

#3 The crossfire from A to B

But that really helps the russians to take B when they got A


I don't really have a opinion for the last two. I haven't played the game much in the last time but A and B never seemed to be a problem for me. From my experience and I always play the attacking side it's the players and not the map, even though it could be tweaked I would not change the first 2 objectives

[GARY OAK]

Originally Posted by Joseph-Porta

1# Blow more stuff up.

Additional ladder in A on russian side would be more of a help

I dont want the pain of throwing down satuals as a russian, only to have half my team ignore my warnings and herply derply run over them. then i get session banned for TK, ALL OF MY RAGE

Originally Posted by Joseph-Porta

#2 The crossfire from B to A

This is not a big problem in my experience.

Originally Posted by Joseph-Porta

#3 The crossfire from A to B

The crossfire from a to b cannot not be solved by smoke.

smoke aint bullet proof :3

it can be lessened but cant be stopped, there is nothing stoping me sitting in b with another mg, just endlessly firing single shots in the vague area of the russian lanes into A. believe me thats what i used to do for a while till i got horrendously bored of defending on this map.

Literally the pair of us MGers where we where getting about 50-60 kills a round each. just spamming away at those spawn lanes.

This just needs as you suggested a T34 blocking the view from the normal MG positions in B.

Originally Posted by Joseph-Porta

4# The approach towards B.

this is a non issue in my head, the only thing the russians could do with is some more cover on the left flank of B.

Originally Posted by Joseph-Porta

5# Tanks.

2 Tanks would tip the favor in the russians in this map to easily, but could be worth trying.

[Joseph-Porta]

Originally Posted by rancenstein

Its already easy to block with smoke grenades in my opinion.

No, it really isnt solved with simple smoke grenades.
Take an MG34 with drum mag or something and just single fire through the smoke towards the edge of the wall and you basically massacre everything.
I have done that so many times myself and gotten so incredible many kills without even taking a shot back at me.

When you know exactly where the Russians stop and can shoot there the smoke does not help at all.

Originally Posted by rancenstein

There are already I think 2 places you can blow up in A to take the building faster, I think another hole that make a entrance would make it too easy for the russians since the german can't do anything to stop them there. Also you can already cap A from the outside

Right now they have a way too easy time defending.

Originally Posted by GARY OAK

2 Tanks would tip the favor in the russians in this map to easily, but could be worth trying.

But it is meant to be portraying the counterattack of the Russians late in the battle when they are superior in numbers and equipment.
It could help the Russians since one tank could battle the Pz4 in the park, while the other helps the infantry.
The problem as it is now is that the tank is locked in a constant duel with the pz4 and cant really do anything in its role as support for the infantry. The two to one tank ratio on Red October seemed to help with the flow of that battle. And besides the German AT crews and engineers can quickly deal with an additional tank that attempts to steamroll into the objectives. It could tip too much in the Russians favor but it could be an interesting thing to test it out and see if we get a slightly more balanced battle. As it is now its just a massacre of Russian troops trying to cap A and B. But right now I want to see what people think could be done to the map to help the Russians actually reach the last objectives every now and then.

[Fisher]

Perhaps it might also be useful to have some objectives that you can blow up to take, like the objective left of the initial house for the Russians.

That said, I've been on the winning Russian side on that map many times this month.

[Joseph-Porta]

Originally Posted by Fisher

That said, I've been on the winning Russian side on that map many times this month.

What server is that?

[Mikeedude]

I have no idea why they changed the 'A' cap to be recappable.
Supposedly in order to make the map more balanced?

If A+B were made so they were not recappable I think the map would be more playable.

Oh and no more destructible stuff please, as it is I think they should be removed from maps. Satchels are usually used in a gamey way like grenades not to actually help your team so less is better.

[Paulchen Panzer]

Hi when it`s hopeless, all you need is smoke at the the last room`s windows on the right side of A. If you have the windows of the first room, the door and the last room with it`s windows on the right side full of smoke go through it and climb in the last room through the windows and enter this room please. You`re now be able to shot everything down what`s coming through the door in A and you`re should be really lucky having germans over your head on the top floor. Shooting them down is fun you know.
Believe me it is possible and i often ask for help doing that. On a 50 Slot Server this method works. I agree with you in some points. This map is very hard for russians and sometimes really frustrating when everybody plays for his own and noone likes to talkback or following orders or everythings going wrong. If your wishes will not come true made by Tripwire, please try this method. I often saw the russians winning. This method does`nt work when the german tank is waiting at the the tank wreck behind A on the right side.

[LugNut]

Playing Classic, over the past couple of months, I've seen the Russians win almost every time.

This might because I almost always play Allied....

I'd like to see more cover left of B and out around D, it'd move the opportunities for skirmishes out there, but for the most part, those places where Axis mows down Allied are also places where Allied can mow down Axis if they control it.

[Joseph-Porta]

Originally Posted by LugNut

Playing Classic, over the past couple of months, I've seen the Russians win almost every time.

This might because I almost always play Allied....

I'd like to see more cover left of B and out around D, it'd move the opportunities for skirmishes out there, but for the most part, those places where Axis mows down Allied are also places where Allied can mow down Axis if they control it.

I should try out that then =P And here I thought the slow play of classic would just make it worse xD

[LordKhaine]

Originally Posted by Joseph-Porta

I should try out that then =P And here I thought the slow play of classic would just make it worse xD

It does make it worse! I dunno what LugNut is on about . I've seen Allies win it a bit in classic, but it's still heavily stacked against them.

This is a map that just never seems to get fixed. It has had so many changes and they never seem to fix the problems. A was too hard to cap, so how do they change the map? They add trenches to B and D, and make A recappable. What the hell?! Now it's even harder to cap A! And C was sometimes a problem to cap, so they fix this by.. making D recappable and requiring the Allies to hold both at the same time?!?

Then there are the final two objectives which were often an issue. So they fix this by removing one of the Axis spawn points and forcing them to spawn on one flank. This makes it fairly impossible for the Allies to get any foothold in the left of no-mans land since it is in sight of the Axis spawn. But on the plus side, now the Axis spawn seems almost designed for spawn camping. A single T34 can decimate the Germans the second they leave their spawn. So er.. that's balance?

I fear the map will never be "fixed" .

[LugNut]

I fear the map will never be "fixed"

I agree. I think it'd be a much more interesting map with the spawns and objectives spread out laterally. We use what? 60% of the playable area? I'm new to RO, so does TWI allow modding of stock maps? I've seen that in other games where the community will expand and/or drastically improve stock maps. This one would be a candidate.

And it's true, it's still heavily skewed towards Axis, maybe Allied are winning more now because people have learned how to play it, I dunno. If Axis rush and get a foothold in both A and B at the beginning though, Allied have a real tough time of it.

[Extension7]

Originally Posted by LugNut

I agree. I think it'd be a much more interesting map with the spawns and objectives spread out laterally. We use what? 60% of the playable area? I'm new to RO, so does TWI allow modding of stock maps?

Yup, pretty sure. Blitz-Bob made a night time Spartanovka for the holidays with snow, could be nice to change the time of day/weather of this map and adjust spawn locations and make changes so it can play for the better or worse.