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Gameplay has turned into a campfest...

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#21
Some new guys who have entered the series just need to understand that being aggressive is really rewarding, both in points which massively increase when you are in a capzone ( Well done TWI, it's just that many still don't get it) and kills, I think 1/5 of all my kills are bayonet kills within the enemy capzone, god I love bayonetting.

Just keep saying in the chatbox how the game supposed to be played and sometimes it works. What works even better, and I've seen it in a number of servers, is the server auto-messaging tips to the player.
 
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#22
OnCrack said:
This is it, two weeks of beta and few days after release I find my self with no better tactic than camping, either on defense or offense I can get about 30-40 kills every game just by finding a spot and camping the enemy till i get spot, I say it's not fun to me, there's no challenge, I've come to know all the spots on the most famous maps where you can just point your super accurate auto/semi-auto gun and get kills, one after the other. I'ts no that I didn't try to play differently, it's just not possible, I either camp and get on top of the leaderboard or get killed by campers.

I find it boring that I can stand still and have the same accuracy I have with the gun rested.

it's just not fun that I can run for miles and have no penalty while shooting.

It's annoying that a guy shoots three bullets in my chest and I can kill him and bandage later on.

It's ridiculous that I can get 60 meters headshots while bleeding to death.

It's hilarious that I can sprint and zigzag while the enemy unloads a gun on me and stab him with the bayonet and then bandage as if nothing happened.

On most the maps is just that, a big campfest, behind the little walls on apartments, in the bush on the far left on spartanovka, etc. etc. no tactics no flanking, no suppression fire, it's just aim shoot and get a kill every single shot, first day I thought 'wow I am good at this', but then I realised it was just how the game works. Now every map has just become that.

This is not about bugs, or balance, or realism, it's about the gameplay. Killing stuff is too easy that it's not even fun to me anymore, I remember RO where every kill felt like you really achieved something, now it's just counting how many you can kill before they hunt you down.

But what can TWI do about this? I wonder how do TWI devs feel when they play the game, when all this stuff is under their own eyes? Is that kind of gameplay what you were aiming to achieve? Maybe an official statement on that will clarify many things. Like 'we wanted the game to be like this, so live with it if you don't like it'...

Please keep it civil.
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also, I think TWI did exactly what they wanted. they weighted the good and bad and made a decision on it.

but what you feel is what I feel. the main thing that pisses me off is the gun mechanics. its now like cod. almost no sway, your vasily and a arnold schwarzenegger hybrid with crazy accuracy and can run a long time then use arnold's endurance and strength to stabilize the gun and vasily invisible zooming scope. your man doesn't feel pain, he can run up and stab you after a shot to the body.

resting your arm is not needed anymore like in ro 1. your better off being a few metres away from the window so they won't spot you and just use shift as a arm rest.

things I do like though of ro 2 over ro 1. MG is now more realistic and improved. you can check ammo. wall penetration. climbing through windows. death from bleeding. you can more easily check where the cap zones are with t button rather then ro 1 with always going to check map.

and does anyone else feel that the recon plane is like a grandpa version of the UAV detection in cod.
 
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#24
one of the reasons is that the grounds are so open, all you need to do is find a nice window, and you're all set. Gun accuracy is ridiculous, and it's way too easy to hit guys 100m out. RO1, that **** would most definitely not fly. Gameplay is way too arcady. It feels like they tried to make a semi-authentic, semi arcadey game but it just flops. They really need to go back to the RO1 principles. Bandages are pathetic, and are applied superficially fast, almost like tying his shoes. IMHO, there shouldn't be any bandages, they ruin the game, or at least make the application to oneself alot longer. Gun play is good, but the accuracy really needs to be fixed, to be less accurate. Everything is pin-point accurate. I can sprint till exhaustion, and still kill a guy with my mp40 or PPsH, who's a good distance away, and there's only a little sway.
 
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#25
OnCrack said:
Except that was not my case as you can read from the post.
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No disrespect but getting lots of kills doesn't disqualify anyone from being a noob.Like the dudes that camp near the spawn with 40 kills not even attempting to defend or capture objectives.Not helping their team at all the really effective players get lots of kills while being in the capzone all at the same time.

"I would rather have a guy with 2 kills in the cap with me than some guy camping at the spawn with 50 kills" Me
 
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#26
OnCrack said:
I say it's not fun to me, there's no challenge, I've come to know all the spots on the most famous maps where you can just point your super accurate auto/semi-auto gun and get kills, one after the other
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Yeah, this is what happen when you make a game more arcade for make more profits. In fact, the good players of RO, after of playing 2-3 months they will leave this game, cause there is no challenge for them and probably they return to RO1. The rest of the players will go to the new CoD o BF.

And I very much agree on your points.

What is that to run a 100 meters sprint and target without any difficulty. In high school, when I was a sprint in physical education, could not finish my soul.

The recoil of the weapons is ridiculous, especially semi-automatic rifles.

And the stamina is practically infinite.

TWI Very bad, very bad
 
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#27
Josef Nader said:
Exactly. The RO1 crowd is disappointed because they feel the pace is way to fast, and the arcade FPS shooter player is disappointed because the pace is way to slow.

People will never be satisfied with any changes to existing formulas. RO2 is not RO1. Not even close. Is that a bad thing? No. It's evolved into something different, something new. I find it very exciting, and think that RO2 can really revolutionize FPSs, especially if it's making everyone across the board seriously rethink how they play the game.

Of course, most of the people here on the forums don't want to rethink how they play. They just want the same tired old strategies to work in every new format they are presented with.

Trust me, guys. Learn the game. Try new things. Practice, practice, practice. We're all noobs again. RO2 is a new beast. Stop trying to treat it like your old haunts. It's not.
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its red orchestra. hold the name with the reputation to be more towards the realism realm of fps. improvements on mg are acceptable. no more arm rest and a magic zoom with super stability while standing are not acceptable to me. your right, its a new game with new rules. but does it really represent what the name red orchestra was about. we can agree that people who played ro 1 probably liked it over cod for example. now the game is somewhat of a hybrid of cod/ro 1. UAV recon with no sway guns and a magic zoom mode like cod. mg was a improvement of ro 1.

they game is no long about red orchestra - realism as the main priority. its definitely something else now.
 
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#28
OnCrack said:
stuff
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You are contradicting yourself, first you say that this game is a campfest (true), but then moan about too little sway while standing (both realistic and good against campers), and lack of penalties for being out of stamina (also good against campers, also realistic because no way will you be exhausted after jogging for 15 seconds).

A huge amount of sway if the gun is not rested would only turn the game into a much bigger campfest, because everyone would be sitting with their guns braced unwilling to move anywhere, because they cannot shoot on the move. Moreover, big penalties for low stamina would result in people waiting after sprint for stamina recharge, which would slow the game down even further.

It seems to me like you don't quite understand the issues and the reasons why the game plays like it does. Do some more thinking and then make up your mind.

P.S.
I must agree however on bandage being idiotic. In fact I think just about everyone on these boards would agree.
 
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#29
This is what happen Tripware.
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Jesus, at least spell their name right if you're going to threaten them.

My only gripe right now as far as the combat goes is that weird moment where you'll put two in a guy and he'll kill you, bandage and run off. I've even done it plenty of times. My take is anything in the chest should be a mortal wound 80% of the time. Right now it only seems like its mortal 20% of the time, and only the head, nuts and heart guarantee you a kill.

You can see it pretty clearly when playing against the bots. You need to put at least two in someone's chest to kill them without hitting vital areas. In CC, that kind of sucks and makes it feel like the bandage system breaks down at that point.

At ranges the bandaging system works much better and feels more appropriate.
 
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#30
THD said:
A huge amount of sway if the gun is not rested would only turn the game into a much bigger campfest, because everyone would be sitting with their guns braced unwilling to move anywhere, because they cannot shoot on the move. Moreover, big penalties for low stamina would result in people waiting after sprint for stamina recharge, which would slow the game down even further.
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RO:OST had these features and it wasn't a campfest, now you have no penalties for moving your weapon around, it applies to campers too, here you can quickly turn your gun and adapt to distances where in RO it took skill and effort, making it harder for campers to hit enemies and approaching a defended zone was funnier (all the bullets hitting around you) and challening but also rewarding. remember the moving from cover to cover, drawing fire and advancing in roost, here everything disappeared leaving space for the run and gun kind of gameplay, where you can kill enemies easily even behind cover, oh the days where cover did something, those were the days! where you had to flank the enemy in order to defeat him.
 
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#31
remember the moving from cover to cover, drawing fire and advancing in roost, here everything disappeared leaving space for the run and gun kind of gameplay, where you can kill enemies easily even behind cover, oh the days where cover did something, those were the days! where you had to flank the enemy in order to defeat him.
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I don't know what game you're playing, but I've had to do plenty of this in RO2. You can't survive or do anything meaningful on FF without going cover to cover, flanking and generally making staying alive your #1 priority.

As most people have pointed out, you're contradicting yourself left and right. People with better accuracy force more use of cover, more tactical thinking and more tactical execution.

Seems to me you don't like the fact that average player has the same chance to kill you, that you had to kill someone after playing months and months and months of RO. Personally, I have to work my *** off to get things done in RO2, play cautiously and yet take risks.

And you may not notice any of the balancing aspects to shooting coming from RO, but I notice plenty of them coming from less hardcore/realism focused games. Rifle sway does mean something when you're shooting at a guy 150m or more away and all you see is the top of his helmet. Resting does help with that, as does having your breath.

It gets really old listening to RO fans act as though their's is the only world out there that mattered before RO2, and should be the only one that matters now. Newsflash: plenty of people liked what RO was going for but not how it got there, and are really enjoying what RO2 is now.
 
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#33
OnCrack said:
RO:OST had these features and it wasn't a campfest, now you have no penalties for moving your weapon around, it applies to campers too, here you can quickly turn your gun and adapt to distances where in RO it took skill and effort, making it harder for campers to hit enemies and approaching a defended zone was funnier (all the bullets hitting around you) and challening but also rewarding. remember the moving from cover to cover, drawing fire and advancing in roost, here everything disappeared leaving space for the run and gun kind of gameplay, where you can kill enemies easily even behind cover, oh the days where cover did something, those were the days! where you had to flank the enemy in order to defeat him.
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Ostfront was a campfest, haven't you ever played krasniy, basovka or danzig on a public server? It was just quite a bit harder to camp there (and thus easier to attack) because of a number properties of the game. Examples include lack of zoom, generally slower firing guns with a lot more recoil and less accuracy, characters not blending into terrain, moving targets being more difficult to hit because of bigger delays in the netcode, easier hipshooting and so on. Even the huge sway was powerless against all that, so attacking was easier.
 
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#34
ItsJono said:
I think you guys should make up your minds.

There's this thread that complains that there is too much camping and then the "Has RO2 turn into Day of Defeat?" with the more fast-paced arcade-y style gameplay.

TWI has been successful in appeasing both groups, apparently if there are arguments on both sides of the fence.
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There is equally too much camping and too much running around in general.
 
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#39
OnCrack said:
It's hilarious that I can sprint and zigzag while the enemy unloads a gun on me and stab him with the bayonet and then bandage as if nothing happened.

On most the maps is just that, a big campfest, behind the little walls on apartments, in the bush on the far left on spartanovka
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These two things drive me absolutely crazy. I know there's going to be a loser hiding in that same bush on Spartanovka now, so when I get near it I just shoot blindly into the bush. 90% of the time it kills somebody who probably thought they were invincible.

The bayonet thing also bothers me immensely. There have been several times that I've been in a tense close fight with someone, frantically cycling the bolt and firing at them, and they casually run up to me and use the bayonet. It looks absolutely retarded.

By far, though, dying from a pistol melee is the worst. I started up RO, joined a server, and within a minute someone ran up to me and killed me by hitting me with the Nagant Revolver. I rage quit every time. I would challenge you to kill someone in reality by hitting them in the back with a Nagant Revolver.
 
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#40
OnCrack said:
This is it, two weeks of beta and few days after release I find my self with no better tactic than camping, either on defense or offense I can get about 30-40 kills every game just by finding a spot and camping the enemy till i get spot, I say it's not fun to me, there's no challenge, I've come to know all the spots on the most famous maps where you can just point your super accurate auto/semi-auto gun and get kills, one after the other. I'ts no that I didn't try to play differently, it's just not possible, I either camp and get on top of the leaderboard or get killed by campers.

I find it boring that I can stand still and have the same accuracy I have with the gun rested.

it's just not fun that I can run for miles and have no penalty while shooting.

It's annoying that a guy shoots three bullets in my chest and I can kill him and bandage later on.

It's ridiculous that I can get 60 meters headshots while bleeding to death.

It's hilarious that I can sprint and zigzag while the enemy unloads a gun on me and stab him with the bayonet and then bandage as if nothing happened.

On most the maps is just that, a big campfest, behind the little walls on apartments, in the bush on the far left on spartanovka, etc. etc. no tactics no flanking, no suppression fire, it's just aim shoot and get a kill every single shot, first day I thought 'wow I am good at this', but then I realised it was just how the game works. Now every map has just become that.

This is not about bugs, or balance, or realism, it's about the gameplay. Killing stuff is too easy that it's not even fun to me anymore, I remember RO where every kill felt like you really achieved something, now it's just counting how many you can kill before they hunt you down.

But what can TWI do about this? I wonder how do TWI devs feel when they play the game, when all this stuff is under their own eyes? Is that kind of gameplay what you were aiming to achieve? Maybe an official statement on that will clarify many things. Like 'we wanted the game to be like this, so live with it if you don't like it'...

Please keep it civil.
Click to expand...

thats what war is a campfest dude one side attacks and one defends that how it normally goes war isnt like cod where guys run around on a map the size of my room and shoot each other
 
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