• Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/

At this part I can't see how the unlock system is supposed to be a good thing.

There are a lot of people equating the progression system with unfair advantage. How is it exactly an unfair advantage? I'd call it an advantage for sure and you could still argue whether it should really be in the game or not but I don't see it as unfair.

So having the ability to aim faster, or keep your recoil on target isn't an unfair advantage against a new player who has to fight weapon sway and recoil like a bucking mule?

It may seem unfair in the sense that getting killed by someone who was 10% faster with their weapon because of stats seems unfair but that's the same idea that someone behind cover is at an unfair advantage facing off with someone who isn't behind cover.
I see it as a "fair" advantage because all players have access to the progression system.

But not all of us have the time to invest, nor are we interested in grinding unlocks. Why should we be kneecapped because there are people out there that ARE? They already dump more time into the game than we do, the last thing we need are the numbers stacked against us.

As I said, you can still discussion whether it should be in or not because as you have said new players will already have a disadvantage, but I wouldn't call the system unfair.

I would absolutely call the system unfair. A professional boxer has an advantage over an inexperienced one. A professional boxer with spikes in his gloves fighting an inexperienced boxer who's knocked back a few shots of whiskey is unfair.
 
Upvote 0
There was discussion about poeple wanting to chose that, But they all said yes to hardcore ranked mode bein this, And like one mode on the side relaxed is the thing for all guns and such on spot.

Isnt that correct?
Both modes have unlocks. Both modes have the same guns and the same prerequisites to unlock them, except that not everyone gets a pistol in hardcore.
 
Upvote 0
Yeah, I totally see people jump shotting people in the head. All the snipers are quick scopers and single players can dominate an entire team.

Can we stop with the angst and hatred towards TWI?

I'm not even going to try and say that this game doesn't need some work, it does. To say though that it's a COD clone or really a clone of any other main stream shooter is simply dishonest and insulting. Most mainstream shooters don't let you drop people at 90 meters in one shot. Most shooters don't feel satisfying when you do the core mechanic, which is shoot people.

This is easily the most atmospheric multiplayer shooter on the market currently. If you don't like what TWI has done, don't play it or continue playing ROOST or DH or whatever grabs your fancy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stahlgeist
Upvote 0
I don't think the unlock system really fits games like Red Orchestra, but I do understand their appeal, which I would be willing to bet is not limited to console player "kiddies." It seems similar to a lot of games adding some sort of economy system. Maybe players enjoy playing towards earning rewards that they can use in the game.
 
Upvote 0
Listen, I love everything about RO2, and I've been lavishing it in tongue baths since the beta first rolled out, but the progression system just doesn't sit well with me. I love everything else about it (save for the clunky command interface), but this is a real turd in the punchbowl for me.
 
Upvote 0
Honor level servers. Tripwire has talked about this repeatedly. You can basically set a max level for servers so for example people with an honor level over 40 can't enter it.

Much better solution would be to simply down rank all the players who are ranked higher than the cap to server's cap during their stay on that server.

Basically if server capped it at 20, then lvl 35 would be like lvl 20 in that server.
 
Upvote 0
Everyone here is over reacting, you think that everyone is going to get tactical nukes once they reach a certain level. Currently the idea of progression isn't bad. I'm quite sure that the upgrades aren't going to be over powered and no one is going to run around as a one man army.

All this talk about balance being removed is complete crap, just because someone has a better weapon than me it doesn't mean that its going to be impossible for me to kill him, sometimes a better weapon doesn't always mean that the person themselves is better.
 
Upvote 0
Everyone here is over reacting, you think that everyone is going to get tactical nukes once they reach a certain level. Currently the idea of progression isn't bad. I'm quite sure that the upgrades aren't going to be over powered and no one is going to run around as a one man army.

All this talk about balance being removed is complete crap, just because someone has a better weapon than me it doesn't mean that its going to be impossible for me to kill him, sometimes a better weapon doesn't always mean that the person themselves is better.

The point of balance is so that a better player will win because they are given equal playing field.

If one player has an advantage that requires another player to play better just to match him, that's the definition of imbalanced game.

Seriously, what's with these silly posts these days about how one sided advantage is balanced because other side can simply play better? Where the hell is the logic in that?
 
Upvote 0
The point of balance is so that a better player will win because they are given equal playing field.

If one player has an advantage that requires another player to play better just to match him, that's the definition of imbalanced game.

Seriously, what's with these silly posts these days about how one sided advantage is balanced because other side can simply play better? Where the hell is the logic in that?

I don't know. Going back to my prizefighter with spiked knuckles vs a drunk lightweight boxer, the solution is NOT for the lightweight to just "fight better".
 
Upvote 0
The point of balance is so that a better player will win because they are given equal playing field.

If one player has an advantage that requires another player to play better just to match him, that's the definition of imbalanced game.

Seriously, what's with these silly posts these days about how one sided advantage is balanced because other side can simply play better? Where the hell is the logic in that?
This game must be very confusing for you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Demonic Spoon
Upvote 0
This game must be very confusing for you.

Again, a lightweight can beat a heavyweight by using his advantages.

But if the lightweight is drunk and the heavyweight is using brass knuckles instead of boxing gloves, the lightweight is at a disadvantage.

Similarly, the PPSh might beat the MP40 at close range and the MP40 might beat the PPSh at long range, but if a player has a PPSh with half the recoil and no sway, suddenly he can beat the MP40 player at range and up close and his gun becomes the clear winner.

Make sense?
 
Upvote 0
I have created this account expressly for this purpose... I have been lurking for the better part of a few years now, and this thread, petty as it is, has given me enough reason to begin posting as something of a counter-balance to the unlock-hatred that seems to be so prevalent here.
I, too, have been lurking the forums for ages but have abstained from responding to anything. That is until I found this comment. Your aggressively ignorant post prompted me to sign up as soon as I read it, and seeing as no one has responded (at least in a manner I saw fitting), I suppose I'll take it upon myself.
I, for one, Wholeheartedly enjoy and support unlocks. I have very rarely seen them ruin games to the point described in this thread. Even, so called "Arcade" games, such as a certain "Bad Company 2" was not hurt in any great way by unlocks...
I'd first like to state that, in contrast to your implications, plenty of people enjoy the unlocks, and it has split the hardcore RO fanbase in two: those who fanboy TWI, and those who fanboy Red Orchestra: Ostfront 41-45. Obviously the former supports nearly anything TWI does - arcade-like upgrades, as you mentioned, among other things - and the latter vehemently opposes anything remotely arcade-esque/unrealistic about the series. Let's move on.
In order to appreciate the logic of the upgrade system, you need to appreciate the bigger picture of multiplayer gaming in the modern setting. There was a time when giving someone a weapon with a faster fire rate, or a bayonet, meant that they had a clear advantage in an array of situations, But gaming has come a long way from those days, and you nearsighted nitwits need to pay at least a little attention to that; Having a semi-automatic rifle does give you an advantage, for certain, but it does not make you an invincible god, nor does it even come close to invalidating the bolt-action rifle, the SMG, or any of the other classes.
It sounds to me like you are advocating imbalance here. A semi-automatic rifle can, in a few situations, offer an edge, but the disadvantages and short supply are an attempt to even that out - and in a realistic manner. You're saying we should give back that edge, then (by using unrealistic means, no less)? No weapon in the game is God-like, but why widen any gaps unnecessarily?
For all your screaming about realism, You seem to be missing something. War is not a fair, level exercise. The entire concept of armed conflict is to out-man, out-produce, out-maneuver, and out-gun your opponents. Very rarely do you (or should you) ever get the privilege of being in an identical stance at an identical height with identical weapons and identical levels of skill, with identical levels of backup and identical levels of uniform-color camouflage.
This paragraph irked me the most. You're implying RO:Ost was fair in the way it handled itself. Sure, there was a kind of equality, but it wasn't overridden by grinding weapons; it was defeated with skill, tactic, and a smidgen of luck. That's how the territories game-mode works. Your paragraph is a load of hypocritical nonsense; supposedly advocating realism while deriding it at the same time.
I enjoy an unlock system. It gives me something to strive for and lends a sense of progress to my exploits. I could care less if my bolt action rifle reloads slightly faster, or has a bayonet; Its not about the advantage, its about the symbolism. A visible homage to your own past exploits, Something that says, "You have come this far," is worth more than any marginal increase/decrease in game balance.
This is why the unlocks are rotten for realism and for gameplay. You should be shooting fascists because they are dropping artillery on your friends, or shooting communists because their slugs whiz just past your head, into your commander, not because you want to see an achievement icon pop up, or a full progress bar. It's a whole different mentality, and despite the Rambo-neutering suppression system, encourages people to play on their own. I think you and I can both agree that this is a multiplayer game, no?
Part of the purpose of these incongruities is to vary the system, and keep things fresh and interesting, and in the vast majority of cases, it has absolutely done that job perfectly well.
If you, as a developer, need unlocks to vary your gameplay experience, you've created an awful game.
You forum regulars like to stroke your e-peens about "being an RO1 vet" and all this jazz, and though I may not have posted at the time, I am among your number;
It's not about being a veteran or being good at rifleman, it's about the game itself...
But for all your touting of long-standing Red-Orchestra-Playing-Excellence, Why is it that you're so afraid of someone who has too much free time having a few extra bullets, or reloading a little faster?
Are you daft? How many times do we have to say it? It is because it's unrealistic and ruins the gameplay experience and atmosphere. I can shoot perfectly fine, but the main objective is advancing the team, not bagging as many kills as possible. I'm not afraid of a good sniper, I'm afraid of a bad sniper who focuses on kills and refuses to cover his team.
Stop obsessing about these things. We both know they're going in whether you like them or not, I just happen to think they're in for the better.
And the militias should have just handed Spain over to Franco...
 
Upvote 0
Again, a lightweight can beat a heavyweight by using his advantages.

But if the lightweight is drunk and the heavyweight is using brass knuckles instead of boxing gloves, the lightweight is at a disadvantage.

Similarly, the PPSh might beat the MP40 at close range and the MP40 might beat the PPSh at long range, but if a player has a PPSh with half the recoil and no sway, suddenly he can beat the MP40 player at range and up close and his gun becomes the clear winner.

Make sense?

I understand what you're getting at, but i still believe you're over reacting. You all strive for 'realism' yet you want a completely even playing field which is far from 'realistic'.
 
Upvote 0
I understand what you're getting at, but i still believe you're over reacting. You all strive for 'realism' yet you want a completely even playing field which is far from 'realistic'.
No we want realistic equipment, drum mag for ppsh, bayonets for all bolt action rifles and so on, no gamey unlocks.
For this game, unlocks gets in the way of playing the game properly.
 
Upvote 0
I understand what you're getting at, but i still believe you're over reacting. You all strive for 'realism' yet you want a completely even playing field which is far from 'realistic'.

I will happily concede that I am exaggerating for the sake of argument, and these are clearly worst-case examples, but I still think it is a valid concern. I love properly done progression systems that offer more variety and strategy as you level up and master the game without unbalancing it for the new guys, but I just don't see that when our unlocks are double-sized mags, silencers, and beefier scopes.

See, now I'm the one being all alarmist and ****, but it strikes me as a very out-of-place feature in an otherwise perfect game.
 
Upvote 0