Axis / Allies balance ?

The people in here who keep complaining about the MP40 being too controllable should really try it out for real sometime. The MP40 is probably the most controllable SMG ever made, and it's very accurate.

MP40 - YouTube

It kicks more than this in the game for petes sake!

And finally, this game isn't about balance, it's about realism and balance achieved through map placement & reinforcement numbers.

If this doesn't help prove that the MP40 is easy as **** to fire, I don't know what will.

Old woman shoots MP40 Machine gun - YouTube

German engineering more superb, Russian failures. Face it, we want realism more than balance. That way it makes the bad side more challengingly fun , APPARENTLY SOMEONE WANTS IT EASY.

Russian...failures...

Sounds like someone needs to read up on some history.

The first time the Germans encountered a T34 it crushed one of their AT guns and then went on a 9 mile long spree of destruction. Some of the most famous snipers of WWII were Russian, using a Mosin Nagant. Many Germans in Stalingrad used PPSH's they captured from the Russians. The first defenders in Stalingrad were an AA battery crewed by young women volunteers. The regiment destroyed or damaged 83 tanks and 15 other vehicles carrying infantry, destroyed or dispersed over three battalions of assault infantry, and shot down 14 aircraft. They had no training in dealing with ground forces.

And if I'm not mistaken the Russians, not the Germans, were the ones that were celebrating in Berlin at the end of war.

The Germans did have very good technology but it wasn't lightyears ahead of anybody else.

Actin said:

This is a nice example how you should adapt to your weapon.
When smg's rip you apart in close combat, then go sit in the tower.

Then those mp40 wielding people will say the mosin is overpowered and too easy to aim with.

Don't balance the weapons, learn to play with them

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Exactly!

no army is balanced on squadlvl. Its wasn't how it was nor is it interesting for gameplay purposes just look at starcraft. If some given situation or operation is too difficult for standard weapons of lower level echelons of the units then they allocate heavier weapons from battalion/division.
Sure, suicidal attacks were done on regular basis and possibly sometimes on purpose, but thats how yuo get balance, not on individual level, this is not modern warfare. It would just kill the mood.

In game terms if some map is too difficult for some side then they get extra off map artillery//better one.

Way to balance the rifleman and smg, is whit grenades, MG-ammo crates, specialist weapons(ie. at grenades). That way both classes are important for the team...put on their own way...:IS2:

you guys need to learn one thing and that one thing is patience. if your patient you'll start to understand what the ro vets are talking about.

i played a mod called fortress forever my ideas at first were to change the game allot more i played the more everything started to make sense.

alot of you complaining have played the game for 1 week and think you know what the game is all about.

MP40 imbalanced versus what is in game - and the real world - a superior SMG at being an SMG. If I'm using the MP40, I have basically a fancy schmancy G41 with crap damage outside 25m or so. You shouldn't need to fire much faster than you can fire a semi auto to kill someone, and chances are the semis will do it in one or two hits. MP40 seems more like two or three outside doming someone.

Technically, a Bolt Action is just as effective as any other weapon in CQC, just don't miss. Does that mean the Kar98 and Mosin are imbalanced because you can poop all over SMG users even in their domain?

There is a good chance if you get "sniped" by an MP40, you would have been instkilled by nearly any other weapon in the game. Chances are if you get domed by a MP40, that guy would have done the same with any other weapon.

The MP40 is better at longer ranges versus the PPSh, but that is because it is indeed a dog in CQC compared to the PPSh. Only thing I could think of to change would be perhaps a bit more deviation at range with the MP40 - making the bullets only slightly less accurate at ranges.

Hello,

Axis / Allies balance :

The gameplay by him same destabilizes game, as of the other one games moreover, the fact that have has to defend push us has to stay on a position without forcing to move, the attack, it, will always be in movement, sometimes discovered, by falling on persons slept or has knees in a place has rat, by making fired by the back by persons who play in no way the objectives, etc....

Well, it is like that, made with, the thing which would be good it is to make the teams turn, once in attack, once in defense.

Mp40 vs Ppsh :

Two very different weapons, but for me, one are better, mp40.

Why? recoil of the weapon (appropriate for the reality) almost non-existent, how many times I was fired above in more than 70 meters in full auto. (I died from it) the impression to be dismissed in 2 bullets is strange.

Later I say not, the ppsh in very moved closer duel sends of the heavy by its rate of fire, and that fire power (finally so-called). Like said higher, fact of making the teams turn, will balance all this, being once in attack and once in defense, here we are with time the ppsh and once mp40.

Do not either hesitate to collect the weapons of your enemies.

Realism or not :

Several players advance the realism concerning weapons or other things, I agree with that, but while they play this card for everything, I can fire through a wreck of rusty tank but me cannot fired through a wooden chair, several problems like that at the level of textures.

Smoke, how many times I was killed being in a smoke, I saw nothing in two meters, but on the other hand certain persons look like the good to see me inside (maybe the bug of the bloom with the shadows below), to revise.

The hit detection, when I dared to say that it was not top, I was shot on the chatbox of the server, that seems to be fixed with the patch of yesterday, not still tried on the other hand.

The shooting in the back is for me a big problem, I have the impression of fired in a foam chap, 3/4 of time that not hits !

The melee, as many games, it totally is to be revised.

It's all for today !

It's my opinion, respect it.

Face it, Goden, the imbalance issues are what makes the game fun.

There isn't going to be a 1:1 trade off between the two teams. This imbalance is what makes playing RO fun. The PPSh dominates at CQC, but the MP40 is better for open fighting. The MG34 is just plain better than the Russian MG. The Ruskie grenades are just plain more effective than the German stick 'nades. The PIV is just plain better than the T34. Does that mean that you should never use the T34? NO! You learn how the Ruskies used their inferior armor and armament to grind the Germans into slag beneath their treads. You get smart and learn how these tools were used in real life, and then do your best to adapt those strategies into a video game.

This imbalance is what makes things interesting. The Germans may clean house in open terrain, but once the Ruskies close in to SMG + Grenade range, the Germans are in deep ****. The PIV may be able to out-snipe the T34, but once it comes to knife-fight range, the T34 reduces the PIV to slag.

Play smart and win, or refuse to adapt and die.

I've been playing this game for what? About a good 8 months now. So yes i know what im saying when i say Axis is always, will always have a advantage over the allies (im talking about original red orchestra 2 soviet vs german not japanese vs american, in that situation its the complete opposite, but thats a discussion for another time). First off map setup for axis, whatever the german team is doing, whether they are attacking you are defending the place from you, the map is set up to give them an advantage, not you. The fact that you manage to win against them, means your team has the skills to defeat almost impossible odds. Axis weapons and and maps go hand in hand, mg34 is completely superior to that of the dp-28, has a higher rate of fire, and is more accurate allowing one mg-gunner to sweep and cover a whole field, if you think just because the barrel explodes it is a downside to the weapon, then you dont know what your talking about, the fact that they give you another barrel to replace your broken one, means you get to keep one of the most OP weapons in the game still alive. Next is the Kar98k, i dont know why, and im pretty sure im not the only one, but i feel highly comfortable and superiorly capable to that of russian rifleman when using a kar98k, the sights are just really easy for me. I got a 250m kill with the kar98k in my first week of playing the game, and it wasn't that hard to do honestly. Now with over 8 months of experience even getting a 160m kill with the mosin is alot for me. Next is sub-machine guns. Omg dont get me started with that crap, mp40 beats ppsh-41 hands down, i can literally pick people off over 60m away with the mp40 no problem, my ppsh-41 goes freken insane at only 20m away, thank god they were merciful and gave the pps-42 to us, and even that isnt on the same level as the mp-40. Assault rifle, mbk42, we are talking about the predeccesor of the first assault rifle ever made, they might've aswell named it stg-44 anyway and it would've still been the same. Rifle and sub-machine gun in one, whenever i see that weapon on the ground it is literally a godsend, i can snipe snipers, take out mgs comfortably, and still be good at close quarters. The avt-40? Yeah tripwire it was a nice try but you might aswell stick with the svt-40 instead, full auto on that weapon isnt even worth it, hell even in real life they said the weapon was uncontrollable and when i used it in the game for the first time, i could see why. Tanks? Im just gonna get to the point, the inside of a t34 is a mess, that little peephole for the machine gunner spot is so small, i hate it so much. Where as a Panther has a nice rectangle window i can see comfortably out of, getting a nice small view of the field ahead of me. And seriously, Panther has more armor. So all in all, the only weapons that are on both teams, are the anti-tank weapons...lol.

If you took the time to read this thanks, and if you disagree with these points, please provide me with a counter argument, good day!

Why should anyone go to the length to provide a counter argument when you didn't even have the decency to format your text properly to make it readable?

There might be a point hidden in there somewhere but I'll be darned if I make my eyes bleed to find it.

Also, epic thread necro right there.

In RS its extremly funny because on bots servers the Allies ALWAYS win. Just saying^^
I like RoH2 balance
Mkb42 is OP but most player start to use it as a sniping weapon once they have the scope and there become COMPLETLY useless for their team hindering their atack strength.:IS2:

Yeah RO2 is about realism.
Although I think the PPsh has the same accuracy as the MP40 :/


HOLY CRAP THIS THREAD IS FOUR PAGES LONG

Waqui98 said:

If you took the time to read this thanks, and if you disagree with these points, please provide me with a counter argument, good day!

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...nice text structure.

I've been playing RO2 since day one. What's that, 3 years now? And I don't agree on much of what you say.

I choose PPSh-41 over MP-40 anyday. Even If I'm Axis and I'm able to choose PPSh I do it. At long ranges you can use the single shot mode, which is pretty great and at medium ranges you do quick bursts. At full level the PPSh has very manageable recoil, not to mention incredible rate of fire and huge magazine capacity. It's probably the best weapon of the game.

As for the bolt action rifles, I can't honestly choose one over the other. It's the one that you've played with more recently that's the "better one". In case you haven't leveled the M91, that's probably the reason you aren't good with it.

Some of the maps however are quite unbalanced, but mostly it's because the seasoned players want an easy game and choose the easier side depending on the map, just so they can rack up kills. I always try to go on the underdog side no matter the map. The problem is that I see these d-bags on every single map through a full server rotation, join the side that's more likely to slaughter the other, and helpless newbies join the losing side ofc. On Red October Factory it's always Axis, Spartanovka <- Allies, Station <- Allies, Mamayev Kurgan <- Axis, Bridges <- Axis, Commisars House <- Axis. So yes, some of the maps are kinda unbalanced, but it goes both ways, and every single map is perfectly winnable with a decent team no matter which side you choose.

...Barracks though, I have no friggin' idea how you are losing that one as allies, it's easy as pie most of the time.

Seriously though, the topic has a habit of recurring roughly every 6 months, and as far as I can tell, the roll call of the two camps never changes. You always have the same folks screaming bloody murder about Axis being OP, and Soviets getting ****d over, and on the other side the Axis stalwarts talking about 'experienced' players and n00bs.

I used to be right up there on the front lines of the red team, swearing that TWI was out with a political agenda, giving the Germans the best of the best and stacking the maps. Actually, come to think of it, I got banned from a BF2 server back in the day for this kind of shenanigans. Nowadays though, I gotta agree with most of Cobra's post. Basically, you usually find a big bunch of players who have been at this for a while who really just want an easy game.(Why this would occur in 'experienced' players is beyond me, as I have usually found myself wanting more of a challenge as I got good at something, but whatever) This often leads to those players concentrating on the 'easy' side of a map and then proceeding to wipe the floor with the inexperienced challengers.

At the heart of the matter you have the fact that the maps in RO2 are inherently NOT balanced, and I appreciate that. (Especially in campaign mode, because it is always fun to play the map from the other side) Real battlefields are not fair and balanced, and I always get a sense of satisfaction out of coming out on top as the underdog. I guess what I am trying to say is that RO2 provides a great variety of maps, some balanced, some slightly unbalanced, and others utterly merciless (I am looking at you Comissars/Bridges), and this adds to the fun. Unfortunately, there is a caste of so called 'experienced' players who are just looking for an ego boost who tend to abuse this asymmetrical representation to their own advantage.

The only claim to unbalance I still support is the Axis 'team-stacking'. But this has, literally, been the case in every single multiplayer WWII game ever made. Ever. It's not a 'bad' thing, if you will, it doesn't ruin gameplay or anything, especially in RO2, but it is definitely a very interesting cultural/sociological phenomenon. Perhaps worthy of its own thread one day.

About a good 8 months now. So yes i know what im saying when i say Axis is always, will always have a advantage over the allies

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NEIN !


play more and go allies ALL THE TIME and only play rifleman for the next at lest say...8 weeks.

It's not a 'bad' thing, if you will, it doesn't ruin gameplay or anything, especially in RO2, but it is definitely a very interesting cultural/sociological phenomenon. Perhaps worthy of its own thread one day.

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I think we all need to blame Hugo BoSS....

The era represented in RO2 was a transition period for both armies. The Soviets were learning fast, and the logistics chain was also learning. The Germans were losing the 'veterans' and worst of all their logistics chain was stretched to what we saw as basically unworkable by winter 42/43 at Stalingrad.


Weapons: Both sides were armed essentially the same. Bolt Rifles as the standard issue, a submachine gun MP-38/40, PPsh-41, and a LMG MG-34 and DP 27/28.


The MP-40 debate should be looked at on the purpose each weapon was designed for. Both firing 'pistol' ammunition the 9X19mm German having a slight advantage of range and lethality over the Soviet 7.62X25mm. The Soviets made up for this with volume with the drum magazine for the PPsH, more bullets going downrange at a faster ROF.


The rifles were basically the same, the K98 in 7.92X57, and the M91/30 in 7.62X54R, both actions worked the same in all weather conditions, each had a magazine of 5 rounds fed by 5 round stripper clips, and accuracy was comparable with expierience.


The MG-34 had issues as well in Russia, and between the MG34 and DP 27/28 the MG34 had a slight advantage but the DP was also comparable in trained and experienced hands. The Soviet army was by this time 'training' machine gunners, not just handing out machineguns to whoever was the lucky one in the weapons issue line.


During this era the PzKw IVF or IVG was more a rarity, the norm was still the PzKwIII series with 50mm guns, as well as the Stug III C and D short barreled 75mm Assault guns, with the occasional PzKwIVD also with short 75mm.
The early T-34 and the locally (Stalingrad) produced T-34 were very basic, until the mass production of the T-34C/42 the early T-34's with their poor optics, crew vision, and crew training faults held the line. The early 76.2mm main gun was still not a true tank killer, upgrades in ammunition made it more effective by winter 42/43.


The advantage in the 'balance' was the numerical superiority of troops and equipment. If you want historical balance the Soviets on all maps should have a 2 to1 plus advantage in manpower.

BlackLabel said:

NEIN !


play more and go allies ALL THE TIME and only play rifleman for the next at lest say...8 weeks.

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That's a very good tip for a new player that's just 8 month into the game. And I'm being totally serious, because that's basically how you get good at the game. You choose the class that takes the most skill and join the side that is more likely to lose.

Anyways, that's more or less how I introduced myself to RO2. I played rifleman, and I always picked the side that needed some effort to achieve success. 4000 kills later I gradually started playing MG, and now I like playing Squad leader, but that's just because most of the time it feels like the team needs it. Good arty marks, as well as forward spawn positions are both key to winning harder maps like Red October Factory (as Allies), Spartanovka (as Axis) and Bridges (as Allies)...

Nowadays though, for example when I play Commissars House, even if my team is getting slaughtered (as Allies ofc), I'm still having a blast. It's quite easy to sneak into C and get behind the Germans who are just sitting there looking out the windows or heading towards B, and that's when the massacre starts.

I had the pleasure of going on a server without auto balance today, and having the axis side with twice as many players as the allied, for at least the first 1/3 of a round, then it sorta went to about a 40/60 split towards the end.

Most shocking of all was when a prominent member of this here community refused to make the effort themselves to switch, or their other clan subordinates, telling me that "there's plenty of server admins on, if they wanted to do anything they would have" (or words to that effect)when there weren't any admins actually on at the time. So the idea of an easy life by picking Axis is quite prevalent in a specific clan it seems. :L

Either that or they're just having a bad day and wanted to put a finger up to me for b*tching about it.