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Rifle/Crossbow changes?

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Electrocuuute

Grizzled Veteran
May 17, 2009
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#1
The rifle should have the piercing ability if the crossbow does. If you think about it, a crossbow bolt has more surface area, therefore there has more friction when passing through it's target, making it slow down more. Unless the bolts are covered in Astroglide or something, I find it kinda silly being able to shoot through a ton of specimens lined up.

A rifle bullet has much less surface area, a much faster velocity, and it revolves because of the rifling in the barrel. It's an overall better piercing projectile. Give it piercing capabilities please.

Also, maybe make crossbow bolts stand out a bit more? I know we have the ability to pick up bolts, but they're so freakin hard to see!

And don't say the rifle is obsolete, I find it much easier to use in closer range combat than the crossbow because of the multiple rounds loaded in and the iron sights, I'd just like to see it balanced out a bit more. I only use the crossbow because of the high dmg/piercing.
 
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#2
surface area isnt what realy decides penetration irl.

arrowheads (and most bolts) are triangular and slightly larger than the shaft, so the entry wound is larger and the shaft can pass through relatively unhindered.
compared to bullets which generaly in a lever action rifle are either hollow points or short rounded tip rounds not pointed military style rounds. the bullets will tumble or mushroom upon entry.

also the bolts being longer / heavier have more momentum/inertia. i think the current penetration system is quite "realistic" as far as a game if this sort is able to be :)
 
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#3
imo the penetratioon is only to balance things a bit, allthought its completley unrealistic

a crossbow bolt cant penetrate a human target, same for the shotgun, at lvl5 i can shoot throught around 6 specimen lined up

the only gun we have ingame that could possibly penetrate throught a human body and still have enough force to seriously hurt another target behind it (im talking of the chest or stomache) would be the bullpup

5.56x45 is pretty nasty when fired at extreemly close range

but as this sint RO, i dont care :D


just as a sidenote, against human targets with clothing, most hollowpoints dont mushroom
 
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#5
so what will be the point of using crossbow instead of rifle, when rifle could penetrate targets and moreover when crossbow would be less accurate. Right now winchester has more ammo, faster reloading, is cheaper, lighter and after all difference in damage they make isnt so big, especially to nonsharpshooter classes
 
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#6
If you are gonna talk about realism...

The bullpup (L22A1) is a .22 caliber weapon. ([url]http://world.guns.ru/assault/as22-e.htm[/URL]) so it would be really weak and definately not penetrate at all.

also if bullets penetrated a body they wouldnt do much damage (tumbling inside a body causes severe wounds). So a bullet penetrating would cause relative low harm instead of a penetrating arrow (bigger wound).

But nsince this is too much realism (fgs, its a game), they should just balance it a bit. Love to see the rifle (which is really cool) as the main sharpshooter weapon.
 
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#7
Actin said:
If you are gonna talk about realism...

The bullpup (L22A1) is a .22 caliber weapon. (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as22-e.htm[url]http://world.guns.ru/assault/as22-e.htm[/URL]) so it would be really weak and definately not penetrate at all.

also if bullets penetrated a body they wouldnt do much damage (tumbling inside a body causes severe wounds). So a bullet penetrating would cause relative low harm instead of a penetrating arrow (bigger wound).

But nsince this is too much realism (fgs, its a game), they should just balance it a bit. Love to see the rifle (which is really cool) as the main sharpshooter weapon.
Click to expand...

What the fudge? The British's main Assault Rifle is .22?! In America, .22's are a childs gun!
 
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#11
A crossbow bolthead you can cut your finger-open on, a bullet you cant.

Bullets do most damage when they shatter into fragments causing massive bleeding. and because of such high velocity, the bullet will shatter on impact with anything relatively hard *see skull*, where as the bolthead will pierce into it like a hot knife through butter.

Crossbow's capability for headshot piercing up to like 8 targets is relatively insane. But it's what you get for a
 
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#12
Just because .22 ammo doesn't have a lot of stopping power doesn't make it a "child's gun". The .22 has a nasty habit of bouncing around inside a person and causing fatal but lingering wounds, and the near-total lack of recoil makes it highly accurate. It's not a quick kill but it's certainly lethal enough, and the small diameter makes it a superior round against armored targets.
Still, its lack of stopping power makes it ill suited for fighting off throngs of pain-immune mutant clones, seeing as how there are quite a few cases of people being shot by a .22 and not even noticing it until much later; in a fight like that I'd much rather have a 9mm or a .45.

Back on topic, I've found the hit detection to be a bit off for the rifle and crossbow. If you aim for the head then you're quite likely going to hit an arm, and if you aim for the top of the head to prevent that... then you're somewhat less likely to hit an arm. I don't know if it's the lag compensation or not, but it's rather annoying if you're low on ammo or going for the sharpshooter perk.
Also, it looks like the engine is doing some sort of costly render-to-texture call for the crossbow scope, as there's a noticeable framerate drop when the scope is up. Also, the image depicted doesn't show parallax properly when moving; the view on the scope moves straight back while the scope itself pans around the screen. You might want to consider blacking out the rest of the screen and changing the FOV like other games do, and use the render-to-texture method just to smooth the transition between the two.
 
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#13
krid said:
Just because .22 ammo doesn't have a lot of stopping power doesn't make it a "child's gun". The .22 has a nasty habit of bouncing around inside a person
Click to expand...

Horrible, horrible myth. Thanks, CSI!

and causing fatal but lingering wounds, and the near-total lack of recoil makes it highly accurate.
Click to expand...

Accuracy != controllability.

It's not a quick kill but it's certainly lethal enough, and the small diameter makes it a superior round against armored targets.
Click to expand...

No.

.22LR has virtually no pentrating ability compared to proper rifle rounds.

The little pockmarks are .22LR, the holes are 55gr 5.56.

5.56x45 NATO is known for going right throught bodies at VERRY close range and the SA80 is NOT in .22 but in .223 rem aka 5.56x45 NATO
Click to expand...

Quite the opposite
 
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#14
oh FFS!
the SA 80 is NOT and i repeat NOT a .22 LR weapon FCS!!!:mad:

can you actually read?
you throw around this link, wich clearly states that the SA80 fires 5.56x45 NATO aka .223 Rem

Caliber: 5.56x45 NATO
Action: Gas operated, rotating bolt
Overall length: 780 mm (709 mm in Carbine variant)
Barrel length: 518 mm (442 mm in Carbine variant)
Weight: 4.13 kg (with SUSAT optical sight and no magazine); 5 kg with SUSAT and loaded with magazine with 30 rounds of ammunition
Magazine capacity: 30 rounds
Rate of fire: 650 rounds per minute
Effective range: about 500 meters (with SUSAT sights)

the only SA80 like weapon that fires .22lr (lol) is the L98A1 CGP, wich is a rifle for training purposes
 
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#15
Zeptorem said:
Horrible, horrible myth. Thanks, CSI!
Click to expand...

.22 rounds are well documented as doing very strange things once they hit living tissue, but the worst offenders tend to be the .223 rounds (Which are also referred to as .22 rounds for convenience.)


Zeptorem said:
Accuracy != controllability.
Click to expand...

Fair enough.

Zeptorem said:
No.

.22LR has virtually no pentrating ability compared to proper rifle rounds.

The little pockmarks are .22LR, the holes are 55gr 5.56.
Click to expand...

Yes, because we all know that Kevlar has exactly the same properties as steel sheet.
Also, who said anything about a .22LR?
 
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#16
krid said:
.22 rounds are well documented as doing very strange things once they hit living tissue,
Click to expand...

You just made this up, didn't you?

They do fairly predictable things when they hit tissue. That is, not much.

but the worst offenders tend to be the .223 rounds (Which are also referred to as .22 rounds for convenience.)
Click to expand...

I have never heard a serious shooter refer to .223 as .22.

Yes, because we all know that Kevlar has exactly the same properties as steel sheet.
Click to expand...

If I used kevlar as example, the .22s would fare even worse compared to the .223.

Also, who said anything about a .22LR?
Click to expand...

You. You referred to ".22", which could only reasonably mean .22LR (which is the only thing commonly referred to as "twenty-two"), or maybe .22 Hornet or .22 PPC if you want to get very obscure.
 
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#17
I have a .22 Magnum my father bought for me before I was born. It's stronger than your average .22 Rifle, but I mean cmon, I could not kill a person with it unless I did it nearly point blank...

If they had Kevlar? Nothing would happen.(Unless I shot em' in the head)

.22 IS a childs gun. Most people in the United States purchase their child a .22 for their first hunting trip or something. No, I'm not a Red Neck, I live far up North. No, I'm not a Hillbilly either.

It's just common in America for Children to get .22's, hence why it's a childrens gun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_WMR

It's a nice gun, worth about 300$. I love shooting it at Targets and whatnot, but it could never be a serious warfare weapon.
 
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#18
Rifle Pros:
Faster Reloading
Cheaper
More Ammo

Crossbow:
High Damage
Retrievable Ammo
Scope
(Ridiculous) Penetration

I'd still like to see a bit of penetration for the rifle, especially seeing as how shotguns get penetration (especially at higher levels of support).
Also, is it just me or does the iron sight for the rifle suck? I have no problems getting headshots with the crossbow scope (I usually never have above 150 ping, I think you guys have a lag problem), but the rifle's iron sights are just ridiculous.
 
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#19
Why does the game even have a lever action rifle? There's got to be a decent semi automatic rifle they could have put in. A PSG1 might be a cool gun to have in the game.

Also, here's something to keep in mind for headshots. Since this game uses the unreal engine, headshots are probably calculated in the same messed up way. If I remember correctly, the hitbox is just a cylinder and you get a headshot whenever your shot hits that cylinder within a certain distance from the head bone of the character model. UT2004 was one of the hardest games for me to get headshots on because of this and all the dodge jumping. However, if you were at point blank and sort of underneath them, you could point the gun up at someones butt and get a headshot sometimes, maybe because the shot originated inside the hitbox and didn't register until it was leaving it.
 
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#20
Mkilbride2599 said:
I have a .22 Magnum my father bought for me before I was born. It's stronger than your average .22 Rifle, but I mean cmon, I could not kill a person with it unless I did it nearly point blank...

If they had Kevlar? Nothing would happen.(Unless I shot em' in the head)

.22 IS a childs gun. Most people in the United States purchase their child a .22 for their first hunting trip or something. No, I'm not a Red Neck, I live far up North. No, I'm not a Hillbilly either.

It's just common in America for Children to get .22's, hence why it's a childrens gun.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_WMR[/URL]

It's a nice gun, worth about 300$. I love shooting it at Targets and whatnot, but it could never be a serious warfare weapon.
Click to expand...

even a .22lr is verry dangerous to a human beeing
it might not be a instant stopper, but it still can penetrate to vital organs

i wouldnt underestimate a .22lr rifle or even pistol for its killing capacity, especially if you talk about it if it was a childs gun:rolleyes:
 
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