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So! Let's nerf!

In the end it boils down to this:

If you're crap at a game and want to become good at it; practice. If you are struggling with difficulty, play on an easier difficulty. If the easiest difficulty is still too difficult for you, don't play the game.

Now, beginner isn't difficult in the slightest, so the most you might need is practice. Unless you're actually pretty good at the game and are just mad about other players/perks matching your killcount or something stupid like that; then I recommend Call of Duty.
 
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First of all, we are a lot of people who find ourself with plenty difficulty in hard at 5/6 perks. It is time to face that Suicidal means it seriously, and Hell on Earth only is feasible for the top of the elite. On the other hand, if everybody where able to wade through both normal and hard, why have hard at all?

Secondly, if you only can pull your weight playing support, then it is one of two things: 1) Support has become out of balance to the other perks, or 2) your playstyle favors support. Neither of these are a problem with the specific nerfing of the sharpshooter, but might be an oversight in the balancing process.

I understand that many people still find Hard to be worthy of its moniker but I didn't intend to put it across that I find it easy because that's not the case. I wasn't trying to insinuate that you shouldn't take suicidal seriously either it was a more general opinion about the game as a whole. I've actually come close to finishing a few rounds on Hell on Earth with 2 other people. This isn't even about the difficulty settings they seem fine to me it's a general theme about the lowering of certain perks abilities.

As to your second point, the patronising tone aside, I play support perhaps because it suits my play style more and if it were only myself noticing it then I would agree with that but more than 1 of my friends has also started gravitating towards support only games. I was also not just mentioning the sharpshooter nerf but also the commando being slightly less useful and again not as a statement of the games difficulties but more as a point that what used to be fun no longer is as much. It's also just my opinion so how about putting it down as that instead of telling me my opinion is wrong.
 
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I understand that many people still find Hard to be worthy of its moniker but I didn't intend to put it across that I find it easy because that's not the case. I wasn't trying to insinuate that you shouldn't take suicidal seriously either it was a more general opinion about the game as a whole. I've actually come close to finishing a few rounds on Hell on Earth with 2 other people. This isn't even about the difficulty settings they seem fine to me it's a general theme about the lowering of certain perks abilities.

As to your second point, the patronising tone aside, I play support perhaps because it suits my play style more and if it were only myself noticing it then I would agree with that but more than 1 of my friends has also started gravitating towards support only games. I was also not just mentioning the sharpshooter nerf but also the commando being slightly less useful and again not as a statement of the games difficulties but more as a point that what used to be fun no longer is as much. It's also just my opinion so how about putting it down as that instead of telling me my opinion is wrong.

well, now that perk roles are reshifted, it is a very different sharpshooter game experience and role, which neaturally causes those who were more attached to the previous role to regravitate to a new perk. In my opinion, this is good; people more suited to support now have found support.

However, as for the commando, technically it was buffed...I don't get the general "commando is useless" feel. I've heard it from many people, but I can never pinpoint exactly what people feel makes it so useless, or if it's just personal preference once again.

Anyways, no one try and suck me into the main thread. I am perfectly happy avoiding the usual firefight that are these balancing threads.:p
 
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So you were just up for nonspecific white-knighting to annoy everyone.
You're not willing to address anyone, you're not willing to point anything concrete out, you're not willing to back any of the claims you make up.
You're just calling a vague group out but as soon as someone feels addressed, of course, they just didn't comprehend the vexingly complicated point you tried to make. Very convenient.

But whew, for a moment there I thought you were talking to me.
Surely you're not "attacking me directly" when you say my "judgement is skewed" (?) without backing that claim up and I'm just misunderstanding your point of not really addressing anyone directly again.

Give me a break.

I am perfectly willing to address people I believe are acting in a non-agreeable manner. You for example are a vicious poster who appears on almost every single one of these threads and prattles on about how much everyone else sucks and how immature every other poster is. I do not attack people directly because I don't sink to your level. Except for now and only as an explanation for why I am vague. It is not to pretend no one disagrees with me. It is to avoid the thread degenerating into this back and forth non-since that this causes. If you want to have an argument or disagreement with me so be it. However, do attack meaningless subpoints that you perceive in my posts or other such crud. You dislike me and lack subtlety. Fine then from now on send me your complaints and save space on the forums instead of pretending that somehow you have found a gap in my argument. If you do need proof to your skewed judgement then look no further than you earlier post.
 
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@ Timur: I don't understand how people think that the Commando is "useless" either. I played my first Hell On Earth games with Rainy_Day_Kid and a few others a couple of days ago and went Commando for those. (I was wearing pants, don't worry. :rolleyes: ) For the most part I was more than capable of hold my section and helping pour damage onto Scrakes and Fleshpounds.

We had a composition of Commando (2), Sharpshooter (1), Support (1) and made it all the way to the Patriarch round. There were a few close calls in the Fleshpound waves and we wiped against the Patriarch but it was definitely the most fun I've had in Killing Floor to date.
 
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I am perfectly willing to address people I believe are acting in a non-agreeable manner. You for example are a vicious poster who appears on almost every single one of these threads and prattles on about how much everyone else sucks and how immature every other poster is. I do not attack people directly because I don't sink to your level. Except for now and only as an explanation for why I am vague. It is not to pretend no one disagrees with me. It is to avoid the thread degenerating into this back and forth non-since that this causes. If you want to have an argument or disagreement with me so be it. However, do attack meaningless subpoints that you perceive in my posts or other such crud. You dislike me and lack subtlety. Fine then from now on send me your complaints and save space on the forums instead of pretending that somehow you have found a gap in my argument. If you do need proof to your skewed judgement then look no further than you earlier post.
You seem to completely miss the point that attacking everyone with broad sweeping generalizations is still ATTACKING EVERYONE. You don't have to name names to be an aggressive twit who refuses to back up his statements.
 
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Let me quote myself from another thread:

It's not about "X weapon is overpowered", it's about "X weapon is overpowered compared to Y, Z, and A weapons". If you have 14 balanced weapons, and 1 overpowered weapon, then in essence the game only has 1 weapon since that weapon will be used every time (except for sh*ts and giggles).

Weapon balanced is not about making the game harder, it's about making every weapon as useful as every other.


That's all I have to say. It's not about making the game harder or easier, it's about evening the difficulty for all perks/weapons/whatever you're trying to balance. In v1014, a lvl6 Sharp had a MUCH easier game then another perk. A Xbow/Katana Zerdic had a much easier game then another perk. This made them much more viable then the other perks, which is imbalance.


In a perfectly balanced game, the entire arsenal of tools and weapons would be open to you at all times, with no "Just for Fun" weapons. Each would have it's place. KF is now very near that, the dual 9mm is the only glaringly underpowered weapon.
 
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That's all I have to say. It's not about making the game harder or easier, it's about evening the difficulty for all perks/weapons/whatever you're trying to balance. In v1014, a lvl6 Sharp had a MUCH easier game then another perk. A Xbow/Katana Zerdic had a much easier game then another perk. This made them much more viable then the other perks, which is imbalance.

If I felt I was pubbing with a "weaker" team I would always use a crossbow while playing as a Medic or Firebug, since I'd be able to "BOOM! HEADSHOT!" Scrakes on Hard difficulty.
 
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WHY DO WE NERF?????????

the lack of creative problem solving. ;)

i'm not saying that "nerfing" doesn't help to solve or at least make the effects of problems less noticeable, but there are many problems which require a lot more than doing simple things like changing damage output levels from 90-65, or reducing reload speed from 1.14 to 1.37 etc....nerfs are band-aids and to an extent most of them work. but yes, i can agree that in the long run, some issues will always require more than nerfs if you truly want them fixed

i could say more, but chances are this post alone will bring out the flaming from certain members just because i agreed with an OP that got 0/10 likes for his post. :rolleyes::troll:
 
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Well although I see the point you are trying to make bswearer, the definition of a nerf is making something inferior to how it worked before, so no matter what creative solution you implement, if it no longer performs as well as it used to then it has technically, by definition, been nerfed :)

I'm jsut saying that when it comes to things that are overpowered, nerfing is inevitable :)
 
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So you were just up for nonspecific white-knighting to annoy everyone.
You're not willing to address anyone, you're not willing to point anything concrete out, you're not willing to back any of the claims you make up.
You're just calling a vague group out but as soon as someone feels addressed, of course, they just didn't comprehend the vexingly complicated point you tried to make. Very convenient.

But whew, for a moment there I thought you were talking to me.
Surely you're not "attacking me directly" when you say my "judgement is skewed" (?) without backing that claim up and I'm just misunderstanding your point of not really addressing anyone directly again.

Give me a break.

9_6 is the man. I'd take his word over some "hey guys lemme jump in and insult everyone indirectly toolbag" any day.
 
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A lot of the people complaining about the nerfs never played when the classes were in their uber-broken state. You would literally have a medic, maybe a commando, and the rest Sharpshooters. It was ridiculous.

Though it may have gone a TAD bit overboard with some things, as Pipe Bombs are expensive to the point of uselessness and the M-14 is largely a joke compared to the Lever Action.
 
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As to your second point, the patronising tone aside, I play support perhaps because it suits my play style more and if it were only myself noticing it then I would agree with that but more than 1 of my friends has also started gravitating towards support only games. I was also not just mentioning the sharpshooter nerf but also the commando being slightly less useful and again not as a statement of the games difficulties but more as a point that what used to be fun no longer is as much. It's also just my opinion so how about putting it down as that instead of telling me my opinion is wrong.

First of all, rereading my words, yes they could easily be read in an condensing way. I apologize, and I meant not to draw your skills in question.

What I meant was that it was perfectly possible that the perk system is not perfectly balanced, and that support might be the more powerful perk now. That will need to be adressed, possibly by making other classes a bit better. However, it is my definite opinion that the 1016 support is far more equal to the other classes than the 1014 sharpshooter was. Thus, I feel that balance has improved.

And what we are discussing here are opinions on how to make an overall more enjoyable game, and these opinions do shape the future of Killing Floor. Thus, I feel that we are able to make arguments about each others opinions, justifying our own position compared to other peoples positions.

What I read from your initial post was that you by choosing a specific perk, sharpshooter, was able to cover for the rest of your team; and that is no longer viable for a single person to cover for the rest of the team. Upon rereading, it also see it can also be interpreted as you can cover for your team, but only as support, not sharpshooter or commando. Is either of these interpretations correct?

The second reading of your argument is a balance issue, but I tend to disagree with you, from a standpoint of playing hard. Support can dish out a lot of spike damage, but it lacks the trash cleaning abilities of commandoes. The main argument against 1014 sharpshooter was that it was good at both trash cleaning and spike damage, and was the only class able to do so. 1016 sharpshooters are still good at spike damage (1 shot scrake, and 1 shot will weaken an FP so much the rest of the team can blast it away), but it is no longer able to clean trash as efficiently.
 
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Though it may have gone a TAD bit overboard with some things, as Pipe Bombs are expensive to the point of uselessness and the M-14 is largely a joke compared to the Lever Action.

I dunno, I used the M14 the other day for perhaps the first time since it was launched, for mob control its fast rate of fire, large clip and fast reload make it a very handy weapon for constant pressue crowd control. The LAR starts off great but if you can't get that window to reload it does have a few problems. Also allows you to take chips off big stuff with the LAR then cut them down as they come close with the M14. Best thing is it doesn't carry that NOOB label it once did, because you do actually need to think now when using it :)

All in all I have to say Sharpie is pretty much perfect nowadays...

Although explosion rattle from demos is a tad annoying but hey ho :)

Support can dish out a lot of spike damage, but it lacks the trash cleaning abilities of commandoes.

Hit the nail on the head. I see alot of support players more than anything else, but unlike 1014 Sharpie teams the support players have 1 defining weakness. Effective range.

All of their weapons work better at close range, requiring them to get close to their targets to damage them efficiently. However more often than not clots, stalkers, gorefasts and crawlers will be meat shielding the Sirens and Husks allowing them to really do some damage to the team. Also the Scrakes and Fleshpounds can be killed by a support, but they are far from efficient doing so. He might jsut about manage to kill 1 but if your getting pushed by 2 or 3 they aren't going to be able to take them all on.

This is where the new Sharpshooter steps in. He can stun and kill Scrakes 1 after another uninterupted, and can deal a huge amount of damage to the Fleshpound so the rest of the team can bomb it down.

The Support is powerful, but he has his limits, and full support teams will find they have weaknesses in the field that will punish them on harder difficulties.

The game is FAR better balanced than 1014.
 
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I suggest KF be the first game to have a Nerf perk.

nerf-guns-8-470-0409.jpg


Nerf+Longshot+(Yellow)+05.JPG

How about these for weapons?

/sarcasm :troll:
 
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