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Bunch of Firebug ideas/fixes

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Aze

Aze

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Mar 19, 2010
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#1
>>>>> WARNING: Huge wall of text !!! <<<<<

Hello there you useless clotsuckers! :)

As the topic says, this is a post about the Firebug. The Firebug to me is a fun class, yet it is lacking quite alot, especially in terms of weapon choices plus it also has lots of bugs and weird and inconsistant functions/bonuses. This post is not only about that though, it will also be some new ideas for the perk in general and i hope you guys don't dislike it too much *nervous* hehe *gulp*

These are the 5 main points about my thread:
* The inconsistancy with the weapon bonuses
* The Firebug weaponry (and lack thereof)
* Perk bonus changes & ideas
* Burn refresh
* Firebug burn stacking

So let's get straight to it:


1) THE INCONSISTANCY WITH THE WEAPON BONUSES
There are 3 main gripes here for me: The reload bonus, the mag bonus and the Mac10 damage.

The reload bonus is not that big of a deal, but it's still kinda strange that one weapon has a 60% reload speed bonus, while the other is only 30%. Why is that?

The mag bonus is a big flaw though. The Flamethrower gets 60% increased mag size, and it also increases the total ammo by 60% because of that. The Mac10 however only gets an increase in mag size (60% as well), but it doesn't increase total ammo, which is lame and weird, yet understandable. Why is it understandable? Well, because of the weight of the weapons.
The Flamethrower weighs 10 and gets 400 base ammo, which is kinda low for its weight.
The Mac10 weighs only 4 and gets 300 ammo, which is a lot for its weight.
Thus the Mac10 gets no total ammo bonus, but the FT does. It's balanced, but lame. One of my suggestionsis to make the ammo bonus change the total ammo of all Firebug weapons. However, that would make the Mac10 quite unbalanced, wouldn't it? That will be discussed further in the next section, The Firebug weaponry.

Last part on this section is the Mac10 damage: It doesn't scale AT ALL with Firebug levels. It is always dealing 35 damage on the bullet (which is ok), but the burn damage is always the same
damage, wether you are Firebug level 0 or level 6... that's really lame.

2) THE FIREBUG WEAPONRY
This is a big problem. The Firebug, a damage dealing perk, only has 2 weapons to choose from. And one of them, the Mac10, seems a bit... out of place? Don't get me wrong, i like the weapon, and i think an incendiary weapon works just fine for the Firebug. But Mac10 as the incendiary weapon... seems weird imo. It doesn't say "firebug" to me.
So, there will be quite a few suggestions here and i will explain them more deeply, however, I'm first just gonna say all the suggestions briefly in an easy to read list:

a) Move Mac10 to a different Perk
b) Changes to the Flamethrower
c) Add the weapon "Sterling Incendiary" for Firebug
d) Add the weapon "Flare Gun" for Firebug
e) Add the weapon "Husk Cannon" for Firebug
f) Make the Welder able to hurt specimen (Firebug weapon)

Now let's get in to each point here more deeply:

a) The Mac10
I would suggest moving the Mac10 from the Firebug. As i said before, i don't really see it as a "Firebug" weapon. Moving it would ofc also make it non-incendiary, which maybe makes it sorta... lame? Thus i also suggest making the Mac10 dualwieldable to give it that little "touch of awesomeness". Now, what perk would i move it to? I would move it to either the Commando or my other suggested perk Agent. Not gonna go into details about the Agent-perk here though, but if you are interested about the perk, here is the link to that suggestion: http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=51088

b) Flamethrower changes
Two changes could be made: Weight and sheathing speed.
The weight of the Flamethrower, being 10, is quite restrictive of what other weapons you will be able to use. My suggestion would be to make it weigh 8. At a weight of 8 the Firebug then has 6 spare weight to buy other weapons. While i am suggesting Firebug-weapons further down that occupy all/some of that spare 6 weight, the weight of 8 would also allow you to use other unperked weapons along with the Flamethrower, such as the Bullpup, AK47 and LAR, opening up some more variety to choose from if you want to.
The second change, the sheathing speed, with that i mean that time it takes to put down the Flamethrower when you change weapon or throw a grenade... Why does it take so long? At the very least, can't this speed be quickened with Firebug levels, similar to the reload bonus (as both the reloading and "sheathing" uses that little lever in its animations)

c) Sterling Incendiary
This is the main replacer of the Mac10, and while it does have quite a few differences, it still would act somewhat similarly to the old Mac10. Before going into the numerical and balancing details of the Sterling Incendiary, let me first explain WHY i chose this weapon as the new incendiary weapon for the Firebug.
Let's take a look at the weapon:
sterling_3.jpg


That's the weapon-graphics my suggested Sterling Incendiary would be based of.
As you can maybe see, the Sterling has quite a few similarities to the Flamethrower: The Flamethrower has a sidegrip, the Sterling has its mag to the side. The Flamethrower's front barrel has lots of holes in it, so does the Sterling. Also, did you know that the Stormtroopers' weapons in Star Wars (the first 3 movies, episode 4, 5 and 6) was based on the Sterling? And you know, laser is quite hot... laser... fire... get it? :p
So, from just those little things, i think it has a more "Firebug" ring to it, don't you think so too?

Anyway, let's go to the suggested weapon's specifics:

Important features: The Sterling Incendiary has 2 important features. First, it has an underslung shotgun on it and second, the sterling (both the main bullets and the shotgun) are ALWAYS incendiary, regardless of it is used with the Firebug or not. And you may think, Incendiary Shotgun shells? Well, there is this shotgun shell known as "Dragon's Breath". This Dragon's Breath shell shoots out lots of hot burning sparks over a short distance (think, shortdistance burst of flame from a flamethrower). Yes, it actually exists in real life :)

Weight: 5 (thus able to be carried with the Flamethrower's newly lowered weight!)
Magsize: 30 bullets in the mag, 1 shell in the shotgun.
Total ammo: 240 bullets, 10 shells.
Impact Damage: Bullets deal 35 damage (doesn't scale with firebug levels), Shotgun shoots 20 pellets
 
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#2
More new stuff!

In addition to all the above, this thread: http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=51700 (as well as older threads etc) reminded me of another buff the Firebug could get: Increased crowd control through the burning "panic" effect.
Now, as of current, the panic effect is kinda inconsistant and that's exactly what im gonna change ;) To make it more memorable (and balanced), there will be a different time for the panic effect to kick in + different panic duration for three sets of enemies:
Big specimen (Scrake and Fleshpound)
Medium specimen (Siren, Bloat, Husk and the Brute)
Small specimen (Clot, Crawler, Stalker and Gorefast)

Big specimen (Scrake/Fleshpound):
Level 0: 8 seconds to start, last max 2 seconds
Level 1: 7,75 seconds to start, last max 2,25 seconds
Level 2: 7,5 seconds to start, last max 2,5 seconds
Level 3: 7,25 seconds to start, last max 2,75 seconds
Level 4: 7 seconds to start, last max 3 seconds
Level 5: 6,75 seconds to start, last max 3,25 seconds
Level 6: 6,5 seconds to start, last max 3,5 seconds

Medium specimen (Siren/Bloat/Husk + Brute):
Level 0: 6 seconds to start, last max 4 seconds
Level 1: 5,75 seconds to start, last max 4,25 seconds
Level 2: 5,5 seconds to start, last max 4,5 seconds
Level 3: 5,25 seconds to start, last max 4,75 seconds
Level 4: 5 seconds to start, last max 5 seconds
Level 5: 4,75 seconds to start, last max 5,25 seconds
Level 6: 4,5 seconds to start, last max 5,5 seconds

And small specimen (Clot/Crawler/Stalker/Gorefast):
Level 0: 4,5 seconds to start, last max 5,5 seconds
Level 1: 4,25 seconds to start, last max 5,75 seconds
Level 2: 4 seconds to start, last max 6 seconds
Level 3: 3,75 seconds to start, last max 6,25 seconds
Level 4: 3,5 seconds to start, last max 6,5 seconds
Level 5: 3,25 seconds to start, last max 6,75 seconds
Level 6: 3 seconds to start, last max 7 seconds

So basicly each Firebug level reduces the panic effect's starting timer / increases its duration by 0,25 seconds. And the starting timers are 8 / 6 / 4,5 for the different sized specimen.

NOTE:
The reason why i say "max" on the duration is because of 2 things:
1) The specimen can die earlier :D
2) A refresh flame never actually adds an additional 10 seconds (max +9 seconds). Lemme try to explain this "max" thing further with the refresh mechanic with an actual example:

Let's say you are a level 4 Firebug and you are fighting a Fleshpound. That means 7 seconds to start the panic and max duration of the panic is 3 seconds. You burn the Fleshpound and let it tick away. After 8,6 seconds (which means you have done 8 ticks of burn damage), you shoot the fleshpound again. Since the remaining dot was 1,4 seconds, and 8 ticks of damage was done, the new flame dot now lasts 9,4 seconds (1,4 + 8).
In these 8,6 seconds, the panic effect has lasted 1,6 seconds, and will continue for another 1,4 seconds. So, after another 1,4 seconds, the panic ends and the remaining time on the dot is now 7,2 seconds. If you now leave the Fleshpound completely alone, this is what will happen: 7,2 secs of the dot remains on the Fleshie. After 7 seconds, the Fleshie will panic again, but only for the remaining burntime, which is 0,2 secs!
So, to crowd control as effectively as possible, refresh the burn on bigger specimen often (if it's wise to panic the Fleshie in the first place, considering your team that is) :)
 
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#3
You weren't kidding about a 'massive wall of text'!

Well, first of all I know a ton of people might shun your suggestions, yet I have to applaud for the effort you put into this post. Bravo!

1: Don't move the Mac10, it's a nice little weapon that's been added to the game. I think adding in a 'dual wield' would be very appropriate however. The Sterling gun is very unique and a good suggestion, but I really think the 'Dragon's Breath' idea is a bit clich
 
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#4
I dont understand why Mac-10 is added... I would say firebug can light their target with any "bullet-kind" weapon is enough. And as firebug is more or less "limited" to FT, it wont be overpowered. Because if they take weapons like SCAR, they cant have the FT.

Also, the "freak out animation" should occur much much much faster. For now it is next to useless.

DoT damage should increase and total burn time should decrease. (so total damage is the same if you let them burn). Zed will die faster, it wont block teamates sight that long, and you dont need to waste ammo on burning zeds.

Ah yes, and firebug should get more fire nades, too.

Of cos, suggestions from Aze is also great. But they seems not that easy to do.
 
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#7
I'm back and to save some space I'm going to quote little bits and pieces.

Aze said:
* Mac10 moved + Sterling Incendiary as its replacer
Click to expand...

I was never a big fan of Mac10 mainly do to the fact that it never felt like firebug for me. For me, firebug is a crowd control perk. When Mac10 was added, it felt more like another commando with less crowd control ability.

As the for Sterling Incendiary... honestly I like how it looks but, still my thought about the Mac10 does stand for the submachine gun part. As for the Shotgun part. At least it would have the feel for crowd control better then the mac10.

At the same time, why not just keep the mac10 as firebug. True, I don't really like the weapon but its a usable weapon. Make it cheaper then Sterling. It would be like a bullpup to commando. First chance that most people would get, they will sell it.

Aze said:
* Flamethrower changes
Click to expand...

Agreed, Changing weapon with a firebug is annoying. It takes forever and by the time the mac10 comes out you really do not need it anymore since everyone else killed everything. As for the weight change, I guess it would work with all the weapon addition you have metioned.

Aze said:
* Flare Gun
Click to expand...

I honestly not sure what to think of this weapon. I am pretty sure I have the wrong image about it. Right now I'm thinking Semi-auto Mac10 that has one bullet in it but, does more damage. Also, has a lighting ability in the dark.

Please help get me on the right track on this one.

Aze said:
* Husk Cannon (+ Husk Cannon/specimen secondary attack)
Click to expand...

With the right adjustment I think it would make a good weapon. Only thing I would add is that there should be some kind of cool down thing so it cannot be shot 3 times without any delay. I know that husk needs to "charge" up before firing but I'm talking about add something after shot. Good example would be the reload animation after shooting the hunting shotgun. Shot change weapon and go for the kill seems little over powered for one perk.

As for the Secondary attack. I think it would be a good addition for the enemy. For the player, I personally feel that enemy should have their own uniqueness. And player having the husk gun takes away from enemy uniqueness, at least the husk would retain its uniqueness. Besides, it is the husk's weapon. He should have a better version of it then us. (One the side note: I over used the word "uniqueness")

I think it would be a good addition for the enemy because, the husk is the easiest enemy to kill in close range. Yes, easier then clots. Reason being is that he has such a slow swing. Any perk can kill him one on one with knife without taking damage within his melee range. He is the old time scrake, just step back when he swings.

Also, lets just say that the weapon cost 5000. With 70% discount it's 1500. I like playing firebug but, I have not played firebug on HoE so I have no idea. Is this a price that is actually possible on HoE?

Completely off the subject but, anyone noticed when someone kills a Husk with a explosion, sometimes about 5 husk gun drops on the floor?

Aze said:
* Perk bonuses
Click to expand...

I think everything is pretty good. Only thing I would say level 5 should spawn with Mac10. If the Flare gun is good as you said and how cheap each ammo is. It would become a big money rack up weapon for firebug. True, you do not get that much ammo but, one ammo can kill few enemy. The cheapness of the ammo will surly get abused in the early waves. Its something that will get done ether way. Why let them have the luxury of letting them abuse it in wave 1?

Aze said:
* Burn refresh
* Firebug burn stacking
Click to expand...

Sounds good but, I see one problem. Firebug would be the new berserker at pat. Everyone gets a Mac10 or Sterling and fires it full auto. The pat would burn forever. With stacking, he will die before he can even runaway. Since Mac10 and Sterling is range weapon. They could do it a mile away. Also, since the pat is burning they can see where the pat is running away so they can keep on adding the burn time and damage.

Other stuff that you mentioned but, getting lazy to look for it after typing all this.

Welder damage:
I think it would cool. I'm assuming that its implied but when your using it on enemy. The welding counter goes down? I personally wish that this should not be like berserker with a chainsaw or katana.

Other thing I remember about firebug idea that somebody posted was the fire pipebomb. I think its a good idea. Since depending on where you place it, I can help or even hurt the team. Burning FP *wink wink*

Honestly this would make the firebug stronger but the main problem with firebug is the fire. Everyone gets blinded. Its one of those class that gives a big nurff by killing the visibility. (never knew that word had so many "i"s) It makes it harder for other class to get a clean head shot. Also half of the time your not even sure what your burning. One rule of thumb for firebug is that you should not burn scrake and FP.
 
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#8
HalfDemon said:
You weren't kidding about a 'massive wall of text'!
Click to expand...
It's not really THAT big imo :p
I did this thread too http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=48496 and it should actually be way longer. The reason it's so "short" is because there is a limit of 30000 characters to write in a post :(
Otherwise, if i included all the ideas i have now plus all the explanations for all of it, i think it would be 3 or 4 times longer (... yeah, seriously!)
*sigh* i so wanna make a game xD

Well, first of all I know a ton of people might shun your suggestions, yet I have to applaud for the effort you put into this post. Bravo!
Click to expand...
Thanks a lot man! Means a lot to me!

1: Don't move the Mac10, it's a nice little weapon that's been added to the game. I think adding in a 'dual wield' would be very appropriate however. The Sterling gun is very unique and a good suggestion, but I really think the 'Dragon's Breath' idea is a bit clich
Click to expand...
 
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#9
Been discussed before and (just like then) i still think that's weird, bad, too "magical" and lazy fix to have all weapons become incendiary in the hands of a Firebug. Imo, a weapon should either have incendiary ammo at ALL times (Firebug or not) or NEVER. No such strange "magical changes" please! (Fire)Handgrenades and Mac10 already pushes the limit too much imo.


Incendiary ammo and fire nades, with my understanding, is armed by firebugs before they go in to the fight. So at least for me it dont sounds "magical". The magical thing still goes to dual cannons.

It could be changed though. It should occur faster and longer, so the total time of burning/freakout is equal at all times. Example:
If it takes 5 seconds before they freak out and the freakout lasts 3 seconds ( = 8 total seconds for everything) and you get a bonus to that making, for example, the freakout start after only 4.5 seconds, the duration of the freakout should last 3.5 seconds so the total time sorta remains the same ( = still 8 total seconds for everything)
That could work perhaps?

The problem bother me the most is a burning clot can COMPLETELY block all part of a scrake and most part of a fleshpound (unless you use low setting). Meaning before it drops it is possible that you dont notice a big target is getting close. The DoT DPS is really pathetic, even a crawler dont die before it leaps on you once. Result? You either waste more ammo or risk to be hit once.

And the freak out animation? Unless you are palying solo, you just not given enough time and room to wait this to happen unless you are playing on maps like farm. So most zed end up die before your flame even hit, or it die on fire from a head shot. The animation is supposed to help the team (or yourself) deal with the zeds and most importanly, SLOW THEM DOWN. But you need to wait aroudn 10 seconds? Hell no.... that's stupid...

DoT damage already does increase. Total burn time shouldn't decrease imo, things with time is better to have some form of "total time" consistancy otherwise people might be confused.
Otherwise a good idea! ^^

Like I said, DoT dmg it still far from enough. They should at least make zed slow down as soon as they are on fire (or this is happening already? But I just can tell the speed difference). And half the time needed to do the freak out animation.
 
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#10
outofrealman said:
Incendiary ammo and fire nades, with my understanding, is armed by firebugs before they go in to the fight. So at least for me it dont sounds "magical". The magical thing still goes to dual cannons.
Click to expand...

So, if you drop that mac 10 to some one else, the ammo in the magazine isn't magically swapped with non-incindiary ammo?

Not to mention, buying the MAC from the trader yields the same situation.
 
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#12
Lucidius134 said:
So, if you drop that mac 10 to some one else, the ammo in the magazine isn't magically swapped with non-incindiary ammo?

Not to mention, buying the MAC from the trader yields the same situation.
Click to expand...

I think having the idea a firebug loads magazine with incendiary ammo and others don't still seems fine. One magazine of incendiary ammo suddenly not staying incendiary for a rather infrequent occurance (i.e. dropping a MAC-10 as there are very few instances where people do it) is more of a nit pick than a logical flaw myself.

Sure accuracy is all well and good, but for realism, its a case of differentiating between what actually detracts from the game, and what is acceptable within the games boundaries. The key is it has to fit game logic, like for example in Half Life 2. If you fling a saw at something with the grave gun it cuts them in half. In real life, unless the blade is spinning and has terrific force it won't cut someone clean in 2.

Its kind of like weapons that players own don't appear on the avatars person to carry round and instead disappear from view. Its obviously illogical but it doesn't detract from the game, and in my opinion at least its the same case here :)
 
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#14
Lucidius134 said:
I frankly don't care and perfer it, I was just pointing out the 'magical'ness he didn't see.
Click to expand...

Fair play, tbh I only read the last 2 posts, I tried reading the others and my eyes just kept going googly :D

EDIT: although I have started reading the thread properly, so I will be editing this post soon :)

Ok so there is alot to cover, so I'm going to try and be brief. If I don't explain something very well its merely for the sake of short hand, not that I haven't considered the suggestion :)

So in regards to weapon changes:

a + c) moving the Mac-10 to another perk is a difficult idea to get across. It operates on the principle that ALL suggested weapons are acceptable replacements. Yes the sten gun would be nicer than the MAC, but the MAC has been carefully balanced, and the Sten would pretty much need the same kind of stats for balance. Basically meaning you have to reskin the MAC.

Shotgun though? Without some kind of attachment how could that possibly work? And I'm pretty sure you can't get incendiary shotgun shells... shotgun shots are basically shrapnel, not bullets.

Also where will the MAC go? Medic is really the only possible answer and there is a big debate as to what kind of weapon the Medic should get.

b) The flamethrower is the bread and butter of the Firebug, it should be his main weapon. I'll come to the husk cannon in a minute but I feel allowing him to take a LAR (and the SCAR/Ak to some degree) is against the whole point of the perk, and that is DoT. I personally would discourage a weight change to the Flamethrower, its the Firebugs identity and giving him bigger damage weapons undercuts the role of the perk.

d) The biggest problem I have with a flare gun is it simply isn't effective unless everything is covered in petrol. If you gave me a choice between an knife and a flare gun in a zombie apocalypse, I'd take the knife. Flare guns are basically fireworks, and even people who have been hit in the face with a full blown rockets have survived, admittedly burned and scarred but survived.

e) Husk Cannon is an idea I'm kinda warming too. I've turned it down before mainly due to nostalgia, so if I look upon it fairly and actually give it a chance then I can see where it would come into the game. The biggest issue I have with this weapon is I see it as a replacement for the Flamethrower, not a backup.

It is going to be efficient at igniting groups of foes, it is gonna be low damage, it is gonna rely on the crisp effect and burnout time, so it is more or less a long range flamethrower, less spammy flamethrower. The advantage is he gets a bigger amount of damage on the initial hit, the downside is he has to recharge before he can do it again, so careful use of crisp and burnout is required.

I am not so fond of the infinite ammo idea, no other class in the game has infinite ammo and basically turns the weapon into a spam for the sake weapon. I personally see it as the firebugs grenade launcher. Like a smaller version of the incendiary grenade. based on that principle I see the Husk cannon as an alternative way of igniting large pools of foes.

f) Sure why not, as long as it is weak and doesn't ignite immediately if at all, otherwise you got yourself a powerful infinite weapon. I'd go with maybe 10 damage.

TLDR: So if anything were changed I would go with:

Keep the Mac-10 as is
Keep the Flamethrower as is
Allow the welder to do low damage (10)
Add the Husk Cannon
- 50 rounds
- incendiary grenade type fire damage + ignition equivelent to the actual Husk Cannon the Husk uses
-
 
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#15
Lucidius134 said:
So, if you drop that mac 10 to some one else, the ammo in the magazine isn't magically swapped with non-incindiary ammo?

Not to mention, buying the MAC from the trader yields the same situation.
Click to expand...

Lucidius134 said:
I frankly don't care and perfer it, I was just pointing out the 'magical'ness he didn't see.
Click to expand...

Thanks for helping me out there, that's exactly what i meant with the "magicalness" :)
The Incendiary grenades are ok imo, since that's something you can never share anyway (so it's always in your equipment, thus undestandable being incendiary).
But the Mac10 magical behaviour (which you explained) are the kind of things that really bugs me. Why the inconsistancy? (Well balancing ofc, but the Mac10 is not balanced anyway (more to that later))


Undedd Jester said:
Ok so there is alot to cover, so I'm going to try and be brief. If I don't explain something very well its merely for the sake of short hand, not that I haven't considered the suggestion :)
Click to expand...
I think this was definitely thorough enough and you get your points across :) Thanks for your criticizm

So in regards to weapon changes:

a + c) moving the Mac-10 to another perk is a difficult idea to get across. It operates on the principle that ALL suggested weapons are acceptable replacements. Yes the sten gun would be nicer than the MAC, but the MAC has been carefully balanced, and the Sten would pretty much need the same kind of stats for balance. Basically meaning you have to reskin the MAC.
Click to expand...
Well, moving the Mac10 i was thinking mainly of moving it to the Agent (different thread) as a regular fullauto and dualwieldable weapon. The LAW was moved so it wouldn't be all impossible...
If they are acceptable replacements or not, well i can't respond to much there. I think they are ^^ :p
And it wouldn't really be "just" a reskin. Sure, quite a few things would be sorta similar, but it would work differently from the current Mac10 in that:
1) the burn effects scale with Firebug levels (the Mac10 does not scale at all, which is unbalanced)
2) there is no auto/semi toggle
3) it has lower rate of fire than the Mac10
4) the Sterling is always incendiary, played as Firebug or not
5) the Sterling also has an underslung incendiary shotgun (very different!)

Shotgun though? Without some kind of attachment how could that possibly work? And I'm pretty sure you can't get incendiary shotgun shells... shotgun shots are basically shrapnel, not bullets.
Click to expand...
Reread what i posted. Dragon's breath shells for shotguns do exist and they work in most shotguns (thus, at least in the game, would work just fine on the underbarreled shotgun)! They are very short range though, as they basicly just fire a crapload of burning sparks. Watch some Youtube-videos of it, looks cool :)

Also where will the MAC go? Medic is really the only possible answer and there is a big debate as to what kind of weapon the Medic should get.
Click to expand...
Already talked about: It would be moved to the Agent (but with some tweaks i have covered in a different thread, the thread is called 'Redesigning the "Gunslinger" idea'). If not, it could be moved to the Commando, dualwieldable or not.

b) The flamethrower is the bread and butter of the Firebug, it should be his main weapon. I'll come to the husk cannon in a minute but I feel allowing him to take a LAR (and the SCAR/Ak to some degree) is against the whole point of the perk, and that is DoT. I personally would discourage a weight change to the Flamethrower, its the Firebugs identity and giving him bigger damage weapons undercuts the role of the perk.
Click to expand...
It still is his main weapon and will remain to be. Why is allowing the Firebug to use other unperked weapons a taboo for the Firebug, but not any other perk? I really don't get that... Just because he is about DoTs? Then why can the Berserker, who is all about melee, so easily carry the LAR, the Xbow etc? Why can the Medic do that too? Or any other perk for that matter?

d) The biggest problem I have with a flare gun is it simply isn't effective unless everything is covered in petrol. If you gave me a choice between an knife and a flare gun in a zombie apocalypse, I'd take the knife. Flare guns are basically fireworks, and even people who have been hit in the face with a full blown rockets have survived, admittedly burned and scarred but survived.
Click to expand...
Doesn't have to be the same kind of flare gun as in real life, could be some military high-powered one or something. Quite a few of the weapons in this game don't act at ALL like their real-life counterpart, so this is a bit too nitpicky imo.

e) Husk Cannon is an idea I'm kinda warming too. I've turned it down before mainly due to nostalgia, so if I look upon it fairly and actually give it a chance then I can see where it would come into the game. The biggest issue I have with this weapon is I see it as a replacement for the Flamethrower, not a backup.
Click to expand...
Replacement and/or backup imo. Personally, I'm getting tired of always using the Flamethrower over and over and over as the main weapon as the Firebug. The Flamethrower would STILL obviously be the main weapon for the Firebug, but now it at least has a "main weapon competitor" and the Firebug deserves that imo.

It is going to be efficient at igniting groups of foes, it is gonna be low damage, it is gonna rely on the crisp effect and burnout time, so it is more or less a long range flamethrower, less spammy flamethrower. The advantage is he gets a bigger amount of damage on the initial hit, the downside is he has to recharge before he can do it again, so careful use of crisp and burnout is required.
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Correct :)

I am not so fond of the infinite ammo idea, no other class in the game has infinite ammo and basically turns the weapon into a spam for the sake weapon. I personally see it as the firebugs grenade launcher. Like a smaller version of the incendiary grenade. based on that principle I see the Husk cannon as an alternative way of igniting large pools of foes.
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Smaller version of the incendiary grenade / firebug's grenade launcher is also exactly what i look at it as. Infinite ammo though is just one of those things i think would be really cool, but to be honest, not necessary. It might be unbalanced, yeah.

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f) Sure why not, as long as it is weak and doesn't ignite immediately if at all, otherwise you got yourself a powerful infinite weapon. I'd go with maybe 10 damage.
Personally, i think it shouldn't ignite at all. 10 damage (or less actually) sounds good. Then it's better than the knife when you have full energy, but worse otherwise. For the Firebug though, it would sorta replace the knife for close combat, unless speed is needed.

TLDR: So if anything were changed I would go with:

Keep the Mac-10 as is
Keep the Flamethrower as is
Allow the welder to do low damage (10)
Add the Husk Cannon
- 50 rounds
- incendiary grenade type fire damage + ignition equivelent to the actual Husk Cannon the Husk uses
-
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#20
I very much like the Sterling as a replacement for the MAC-10 because not only is it a very distinctive British military weapon, but it has a rate of fire in full auto that is roughly half that of the MAC-10. I feel this is very desirable characteristic, as it is WAY too easy to burn through the MAC's ammunition using full auto regardless of how well one practices the "short, controlled bursts" approach to zed control. Personally, I never use the MAC-10 on full-auto accept that first burst into the Patriarch, just to keep him visible for awhile. And to let him know I'm thinking about him...

I also don't care much for the MAC's suppressor, even though it is emblematic of that weapon. If one could stealthily drop a half-dozen specimens using it without arousing the attention of the remaining lot, I might feel otherwise. I'm not feeling much love for MAC's akimbo; I'd rather have a first-person view of two hands firmly on a single Sterling. (Or, for that matter, on a single MAC-10.) If two MAC's would be sharing a common quantity of ammunition like two Berettas and/or Deagles, the already paltry amount of ammo provided would simply disappear twice as fast. Regarding incendiary ammunition for either subbie, I'd like to see a very prominent depiction of tracers whenever the 'Bug fires the MAC or a Sterling. They do set things ablaze.

Sorry, but I don't much care for any sort of shotgun attached to the Sterling; why not just issue some sort of incendiary round for use in the existing shotguns? Can't say I find the Husk cannon is appealing, either. If any zed weapon were to be re-tasked or recycled, I'd rather see the 'Zerker wielding one of those wicked Gorefast blades. (Purchased from the Trader; not a battlefield pickup.)

I like both your burn refresh and stacking concepts. Also, the Flare Gun. As far as using the Welder as a weapon, I'd limit it to something that would simply break the embrace of those overly-friendly clots in a more time-sensitive manner than the knife currently provides for the average non-'Zerker. More of a "keep your hands to yourself, sweetie" sort of thing than actually being outright lethal, and usable in that capacity for all perks.
 
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