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Grenade range: Why was it increased again?

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#61
As to the people talking about making the nade fragments real objects like bullets, they are! Just think kinda like the flak cannon nades but you can't see the fragments.

I think the range is fine and the accuracy is a hard thing to get right. With a decent throw I can get as accurate and distant with a stone of a similar wieight to a grenade.

The thing about people spamming nade's etc... ***** if I were in a combat zone and I had the choice between getting above cover and shooting with a rifle or staying down and lobbing a grenade in the general direction I know which I'd choose first. The nade "spamming" can be irritating but **** happens, get over it.
 
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#62
stebbs said:
But now we are getting back into the first threads about nade spamming, that others aren't using them according to your standards or preferences, and as mentioned before, no one should be able to tell me where and when to throw a nade.

BTW i played moinoff's new map (Budapest I think) where there was NO nades at all. Every member of my team was being wiped out by their fixed MG position. I'm sure everyone can agree that there are certain positions that an MG can occupy that make it virtually impossible to take him out. Does that make it more fun for anyone? (except the MG of course)

Anyway, I snuck around until I was right next to him ( i could see the muzzle flashes over the next sandbag) But, since there were no nades i had to expose myself to try and kill him, and guess what happened...another kill for the MG or his teammate who had an SMG.

These were enemies I could have killed long before getting so dangerously close.

If the nades are nerfed anymore than what they are we might as well all carry SMGs on every map, since that will be the preferred method of killing.

Let's just keep it as is and play the game, this is about fun right?
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i woud love that so much ! Finnaly MGs in there REAL role, killing evryone that stick his head out. I want to **** in my pants when there is a mg around the corner.

But thats what i like.
 
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#63
Ok so lets gather together the suggestions (some of them have been added onto):

1) Decrease throw range of grenades.

2) Decrease throw range of grenades based on stamina.

3) Decrease accuracy of grenades based on stance, suppression, and movement (strafing, sprinting, jumping, etc.).

4) Decrease the amount of grenades per person or class (server variable).

5) Increase time to switch to grenade.

Edit (thanks Teapot, forgot about this one):
6) Reduce damage range/change fragment dispersion (don't know which method is being used).

Now one or more of these is the key to realistic and fun gameplay, I doubt it would be all (though it could be). Discuss.

*Note*: We must remember that all things are related, meaning changing other things could change how grenades are used. If maps had longer ranges, people would be using their gun more often. If melee was easier and faster to use, people would resort to it as weapon of last resort and not suicide nade themselves to kill the other guy 6 feet away. However, since we are talking about grenades, lets just stick to that.
 
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#65
by reading all this, we shoud watch to nerve the grandes (as frome some already mentioned) not to much with all that. I see why grenades have to be changed, but i think, it has to be changed just slightly and not in there blast or distance, but with accurace from using them while doing some movements, as already stated here, there has to be a general decrease with accurace in throwing while strafing or even walking, With the most video fotage i have, i see soldiers using there grenades from well selected positions where you have the time to aim, or in very close city fightings for clearing rooms (there have beein people in the russians assault squads, there where with nothing moer armend then just bags with grenades, to suport the machine pistol shooters with it).

Grenades shoud be accurate weapoons, when used right, but that people can use them just so easy in evry sitution in game makes them, from my point of view, so strong, specialy while jumping/strafing there shoud be a heavy increase in the throw distance and accuracy, While runing straight forward, it shoud be like its now (but not with a jump!)
 
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#67
In my humble opinion, getting within grenade ranges of the enemy in real life or a video game should be deadly and frightening. The US military usually determines the difference between a close range ambush/engagement/firefight and a long range one as being in "grenade throwing range" or not. This greatly affects the appropriate "book" tactics, due to the deadly nature of the close range.


I can't comment on how the beta was (wasn't in), or how competitive RO plays (I'm just a weekend warrior).

I will say that I find being within grenade range of the enemy to be a close and decisive affair. The clock is always against you if you're close to an enemy, as there could be a grenade coming your way at any moment. Does it suck to be killed by a nade? Yes. Does it sometimes come down to who throws first? Maybe.

Does it create frantic close range tension? You betcha. It's an ace in the hole to save the day when appropriate and to be feared when you're the one in a tight spot. You get two because Murphy says we're always going to botch the first throw. (And hell, the second too, but at least you get another chance).

In my experience, RO grenades are most useful against a dug in or entrenched enemy. A fast moving bad guy, or someone in the open is usually moving too fast to be hit by the nade's blast, which is iffy even if you're a master at cooking. If you're the dug in or entrenched bad guy? Start worrying and kill the other guy first. Grenades are scary.

For the record, I'm a big fan of the rifle bayonet, and the enemy's grenade tactics go out the window when you're next to him. I generally use my own grenades to mask my charge and disorient the bad guys, instead of as a killing blow.

If you want a long firefight, stay out of grenade range, or get so close that the bad guy can't use them. The grey area is the oh s--- zone it should be.

My two cents.
 
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#68
That's right. If you are too close then you made a bad choice somewhere.
Nades are fine in how they work (exept they don't stop where they land irl...). Make them bounce/move when they land on hard surfaces and let them stop when they land on sand or grass (in the other grenade thread someone mentioned nades are not made of rubber and don't bounce. But irl the innertia doesn't stop them where they land).

I would like to see more realistic amounts though. Specially in infantry maps.
The Russians prefered to use nades above rifles/smg's in urban combat.
Their assaults started at a grenades throw distance (30 meters).
During the battle of Stalingrad (and later), stormtroops had somewhere between 8 and 12 grenades per person for each action/assault.
Streets and squares/yards were empty, house to house fighting occured inside. This is where grenades are most usefull. Throw a grenade into a room and wipe out everything (go in with blazing weapons to be sure though)

Sidenote: More grenades were used during Stalingrad then in the remaining part of the war. In other cities they were used extensively, just like in Stalingrad. The battles just didn't take as long (as in months).

Sidenote: Bad hygi
 
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#69
REZ
damn Byte Me, that list... those are all nerfs :D
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Nerfing is when you overdo it. Actually, I would prefer if the normal jogging throw range was increased. I just had that list to see what other people thought, I really think it should be 2 and 3. Because those are the most realistic and strategy inducing ways, meaning its not a fixed variable, it depends on what your doing. Though 5 just by itself could be just what we need.
 
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#70
REZ said:
You guys should go play the mod for a day, you'll absolutely LOVE the grenades the way they are now.[/SIZE][/I]
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Yes, I played the mod. And compared to the mod the grenades are extremely nerfed now. But still I hate these damn grenades. I wouldn't mind if they get back there old blast radius as long they get more realistically implemented and not in this arcady style.

prolonged weapon switch time, throwing accuracy ... (Bah I wrote it already 1000 times)
 
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#71
Byte Me said:
5) Increase time to switch to grenade.
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Like everyone's having bad case of Parkinsons? Let's add dopamin medication supplypoints too. If you don't take your medication you will suddenly freeze and it takes ten seconds you to take next step.

Really, how long does it take you rest your weapon by the shoulder strap and pick a grenade from your pouch?
 
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#73
In a game that is amazingly realistic, the grenade ranges are one of the few aspects that really take away from the realism. There is nothing more frustrating than watching a player zig-zag his way across the battlefield with no regard for personal safety and lob a grenade from, what seems like, an amazing distance with pinpoint accuracy. Some of these throws are made from distances were a rifle shot would be difficult. Whether or not a human can throw over these distances is less important than the way it detracts from the overall gameplay. It would be nice to see actual gun battles take place rather than long-distance throwing matches. It is doubtful that a Russian peasant or a German factory worker, in the heat of battle, would have the throwing arm of a major-league Baseball pitcher. Grenades have their place and are very useful tools but they are not cruise missiles. I think that a reduction in the range that grenades are thrown would add tremendously to the way the game is played and promote the use of much more stratagy in this very realistic game. I hope that the developers will consider changing this aspect of an otherwise very realistic and enjoyable game.:)
 
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#77
Divinehammer said:
I would guess that the 360 killzone is an engine limitation. but i suppose if each grenade explosion is a script then the devs could do something like a 270 degree killzone that is randomized so if you happen to be in the one quadrant that is not part of the killzone that time then you are good. I just dont know if it would be possible.
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IIRC a mod named UT: Infiltration had realistic grenade and claymore mine fragmentation and it used older version of Unreal engine. So I don't think that it would be impossible to model realistic fragmentation in RO.
 
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#78
aop said:
IIRC a mod named UT: Infiltration had realistic grenade and claymore mine fragmentation and it used older version of Unreal engine. So I don't think that it would be impossible to model realistic fragmentation in RO.
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Nope, Infiltration uses hitscan systems, RO uses a ballistics system, it would be possible, but probably not without lag or real real (and I mean real) good coding work.

And I think that no coder in the world is that good... :(
 
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#79
I would imagine it's hard to accurately model random fragments based upon individual situational variables, and the concussive effects as well, on the current engine.

I think the devs have done a good job with what they have to work with regarding nades, considering what they used to be like... What I would like to see is people adjusting their gameplay. Cruise missles is exaggerating.. personally I calculate if I am in an enemies throwing range and act accordingly, regardless if they are zig-zagging. Sometimes I take the risk and try to shoot them, other times I vacate the area.

Of course thats when I have visual contact... if I dont see them, and I die by their nade... good for them! Firefights take place at all ranges, but obviously if you are somewhere near medium or close range, then dying by nade is a very possible outcome. I suggest staying out of nade range the best you can by killing at longer ranges, and never standing still, not even for a second, if you are anywhere close to being in nade range. Always be prepared to get the F*** outta there at a moments notice.
 
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