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So how are we doing on that DX11 thing?

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mattlach

mattlach

Grizzled Veteran
Oct 20, 2011
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Massachusetts
#1
I ask because it is evident that it has become more and more important.

I tried playing on a new community developed map last night (can't remember the name right now, and I can't log on to check) It was a large outdoor map, with Germans attacking and needing to cap zones with areas of buildings. Cap zone D was a church.

Anyway, I found myself CPU limited on this map. This despite my Core i7-3930K being clocked at 4.6Ghz...

My GPU utilization went down as far as 70% even with the GPU settings pinned. While the result was that framerates often dropped to the low 50's, which isn't great, but isn't terrible either (my barometer is to have minimum framerates above 60fps) this was on a rather high performing CPU, I can only imagine what its like for others.

The problem will be smaller for people with Nvidia video cards that can take advantage of hardware PhysX, but the fact still remains that DX9 with its draw calls all on the same CPU core is holding this game back.

Porting it to a DX11 capable version of the Unreal 3 Engine should be relatively straight forward, and instantly yield better results when the draw calls are spread out among the cores.

Furthermore, switching from PhysX to OpenCompute for physics calculations should make a huge difference for those with non-Nvidia GPU's as well... This may not be as straight forward with the Unreal 3 Engine though.
 
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#4
mattlach said:
Porting it to a DX11 capable version of the Unreal 3 Engine should be relatively straight forward, and instantly yield better results when the draw calls are spread out among the cores.
Click to expand...
Wrong.

Think about it for a minute, no, 15 seconds. If it were easy to do, don't you think it would have been done already?
 
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#7
I'm not happy with the fps either. But since release my framerate has increased a lot via optimization patches. At first it was nearly unplayable, now it runs rather well on high.

There are lots of dx9 games that run just fine. RO2 hasn't been one of those and I think it was pretty terribly optimized to begin with. DX11 wouldn'te be bad of course, but I think poor framerates will be fixed in the near future. Too bad it took this long, many people left because of it.
 
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#9
I have several games that have a DX11 implementation, and I run them all on DX9 or DX10, even though I have a DX11 card :) It seems that every game that ships with a DX higher than 9, suffers crashes, intense framerate drops, and other random problems. Batman:AC still suffers these problems, even though they released a patch to address them. In one of the boss fights, I got down to around 4fps - while it was ironically easier to kill the bad guys, they were very tough - so after 10 solid minutes of fighting the same guys in slow-mo, I had to restart with DX9 and do it again, but at the proper framerate :)

DX11 "claims" to make things shiny and happy, but I don't know of a single game so far that launched with DX11 support, and didn't have problems with it. I don't know if it's the drivers, or DX11 itself, or the developers - but something isn't quite right :)
 
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#10
Zips said:
Think about it for a minute, no, 15 seconds. If it were easy to do, don't you think it would have been done already?
Click to expand...

That's your argument? Seriously? There are dozens of small bugs, glitches and annoying points at RO2 that could be easily fixed in a minute (no, 15 seconds) and aren't fixed after months.
 
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#11
yankee said:
That's your argument? Seriously? There are dozens of small bugs, glitches and annoying points at RO2 that could be easily fixed in a minute (no, 15 seconds) and aren't fixed after months.
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Are you a developer at TWI?

No?

Then don't say "this or that should be super simple to deal with" since you aren't.
 
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#12
Zips said:
Wrong.

Think about it for a minute, no, 15 seconds. If it were easy to do, don't you think it would have been done already?
Click to expand...

You mean like the glitches that would have been easy to fix in Ostfront? Like the sniper-fast-reload bug that was caused by a copy and paste error in the sniper base classes? The bug was replicated and presented in multiple videos.

I know it would have been fast to fix, since i did at some point with a mutator, estimated time: about 15 seconds.
 
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#14
yankee said:
And the cheap arguments go on. Like no one outside of TWI knows anything about coding, mapping or developing in general. No, we're such fools.
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It's the sarcastic attitude that gets me :(

For what it's worth, difficult stuff is why we pay TWI :) As consumers we don't care how difficult things are, we just remember what we are told, then begin to wonder when it isn't forthcoming. Hardly our fault...
 
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#15
I thought about creating a similar thread a while ago, but now mattlach has beaten me to it.

This thread seems to got started on the wrong foot, so I'll ask again in a more polite manner:

Is the DirectX 11 renderer still looked into?

Just a short "yeah, we're still looking at it" or "no, possible performance increase too low to justify time put in" (or something similar) would be nice, no promises need to be made. :)
 
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#16
Freezy said:
I thought about creating a similar thread a while ago, but now mattlach has beaten me to it.

This thread seems to got started on the wrong foot, so I'll ask again in a more polite manner:

Is the DirectX 11 renderer still looked into?

Just a short "yeah, we're still looking at it" or "no, possible performance increase too low to justify time put in" (or something similar) would be nice, no promises need to be made. :)
Click to expand...

This was kind of what I was going for. :p
 
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#17
Zips said:
Are you a developer at TWI?

No?

Then don't say "this or that should be super simple to deal with" since you aren't.
Click to expand...

I am not very familiar with the Unreal 3 engine, but in the original Unreal engine, renders were simple plugins to the engine.

That is why - today - you can play old Unreal based games (like Unreal, the original Deus Ex, etc.) games under DX10 and DX11. People in the community coded a DX10/11 plugin for the old Unreal Engine.


In the Unreal 3 engine it seems like it is not quite as straight forward. The renderer is no longer a plugin, but rather built into the engine.

It should be possible - however - to just populate a newer build of the engine that has DX11 support with the existing game data/scripts/etc. abd just fire it up. It should just work. There may be some small bugs, but not something that should take too long to sort out.

What would take the longest time would probably be the complete QA testing with the new engine just to make sure.

That, and I don't know what Epic's game engine licensing looks like, if Tripwire can simply just use a newer build, or if there would be a new contract required. This could also set things back.
 
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#18
dazman76 said:
I have several games that have a DX11 implementation, and I run them all on DX9 or DX10, even though I have a DX11 card :) It seems that every game that ships with a DX higher than 9, suffers crashes, intense framerate drops, and other random problems. Batman:AC still suffers these problems, even though they released a patch to address them. In one of the boss fights, I got down to around 4fps - while it was ironically easier to kill the bad guys, they were very tough - so after 10 solid minutes of fighting the same guys in slow-mo, I had to restart with DX9 and do it again, but at the proper framerate :)

DX11 "claims" to make things shiny and happy, but I don't know of a single game so far that launched with DX11 support, and didn't have problems with it. I don't know if it's the drivers, or DX11 itself, or the developers - but something isn't quite right :)
Click to expand...

I have found the opposite to be true.

I only have a few DX11 titles, but the ones I have (Metro 2033, Civilization V, Deus Ex: HR) run very well and stably with DX11. There is some increase in GPU load, over DX9, but that is to be expected. Less load than DX10 though.

RO2 is - however - typically not GPU loaded, except on very old or low end hardware. Where people are having issues with RO2 is with CPU loading and maxing out one core, even on top end machines. This is where DX11 should help a lot, by spreading out the game CPU load more over multiple cores than under DX9.
 
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