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M14 ebr

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UserSD

Grizzled Veteran
Jan 8, 2012
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#1
Well, this is a copy of a bit of an off-topic reply i made to a post in other section, and i think it asks for a new thread... I made a search, couldn't find any especifically related threads, if there are any, i'm sorry.

The post Is about the M14. There's a lot of people on the forums that questions it's usefullness, particularly in the accuracy department. After some use, (and a lot of experiences with past iterations of the weapon in different games, namely the M1 in CoD2) i've narrowed it down, in my opinion of course, to the way it's ironsights are currently designed.

The M14 ironsight in the game is TOO obstructive. Granted, the real life counterpart is also obstructive, the ghost ring is more elevated and allows for a view less obstructed by the calibration knobs and rifle body, thus, better aiming and easier control.


Example Here:
Spoiler!


_____

And here is:
Spoiler!


The Cod 2 M1 Garand sight. I know killing floor uses an m14, still the sights are very similar and having played COD 2 for a long time I can say that their perspective of the rear sight is better at least for me, besides more functional also seems more on par with the real ones, both M14 and M1.

More COD 2 screens with Background references, as requested (more will be added):

Spoiler!


I guess a little change in the models and animation could introduce this, although it's probably more trouble than it's worth for Tripwire.

Some sort of M14 buff would still be awesome though.

Edit: Here is an ingame screenshot of killing floor's M14 EBR for comparison, taken by me.

Spoiler!


In my opinion, the sight implemented into KF is much more obstructive.

Tripwire could always add an ACOG/Red Dot/Reflex/Fancy *** sight, since the EBR versions of the M14 seem to have been made specifically for that purpose, (and the new auto-shotgun sight model would probably fit nice enough, just throwin it out there, y'know, just sayin'...).
That would most likely be an easier, more acceptable solution and would make the sight a lot better to use.
Anyways, I do understand that changing the Ironsight to a Reflex sight might be an issue to some players, it's only natural. If we instead had the option to do it, it probably would be better.

EDIT2: Just noticed another thing which i think is part of the problem. The front sight gate in the KF M14EBR just seems too large and wide in comparison to its ghost ring, which i think causes some of the aiming issues. A smaller front sight, i'm convinced, would also help making the Ironsight better to use overall, especially for percision shooting.

Further edit:

Here:

Spoiler!


Is the M14EBR MOD 0 in which the KF m14 seems to be based on. Just for reference in case the other one doesn't look right. I couldn't find a clear ironsights picture of the MOD 0, but it seems to me the ironsights are the same ones utilized in the other versions of the M14.
Also, note the various telescopic rails in the gun, obviously designed to accomodate attachements, such as sights, or laser modules.

ro_sauce said:
i know, i just get tired of people doing back and forth about "you said this" and "no you said that", throwing the main topic out of whack.

here; i zipped it and tossed it to the wind of the internet:
http://www.gamefront.com/files/21170753/m14adjusted.7z

in solo mode, type in console "enablecheats", then "summon m14test.m14testpickup"
and it will spawn for use.
Click to expand...

Spoiler!


Above is ro_sauces little mod, which allows for a more distant view of the ironsights. It seems, to me, actually a good ammount less obstructive than the original!

_________________________________

Note that this thread is MY opinion on the sights of the weapon, if you disagree good, i encourage you to post a CONSTRUCTIVE post as to why. If you agree, also good, please provide some feedback or aditional information you think is relevant. Any input is appreciated.

English is not my first language, and this is the internet, so please forgive any eventual grammatical or punctuational error.
 
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#3
EpharGy said:
I agree with everything apart from the above. I'd love to see the sights change to be more user friendly, although not necessary the addition of a scope/reflex sight
Click to expand...

I know, i'm also a bit skeptical... I love ironsights (specially the M1/M14 ones when they're well made), even though I also like reflex sights, and since the EBR was made with them in mind... It would fit, anyways, hence the
Anyways, I do understand that changing the Ironsight to a Reflex sight might be an issue to some players, it's only natural. If we instead had the option to do it, it probably would be better.
Click to expand...
Part. I know some people don't like reflex/acog/red dot, and i respect that. (do these types of sights even have a collective name?)
 
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#4
UserSD said:
... reflex/acog/red dot ... (do these types of sights even have a collective name?)
Click to expand...

I dunno what they are called in real life, but i usually call them "battle scopes" :p

And i agreed with you OP, i think it could need a buff in form of a better ironsight/scope. Doesn't need to be a very zooming scope, one of the mentioned "battle scopes" would probably be more balanced.
 
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#5
EBR is already powerful enough to those who know how to use it.

Also, about the ironsights, I've been in possession of an EBR airsoft replica and I can tell you it's not quite the same feeling.

I suppose the model should be put a bit further away so you may see a little bit more of what's around, as OP suggested.


(Also I think you should choose another screenshot for COD2's garand so we can compare the average visible scenery)
 
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#8
Splatpope said:
EBR is already powerful enough to those who know how to use it.

Also, about the ironsights, I've been in possession of an EBR airsoft replica and I can tell you it's not quite the same feeling.

I suppose the model should be put a bit further away so you may see a little bit more of what's around, as OP suggested.


(Also I think you should choose another screenshot for COD2's garand so we can compare the average visible scenery)
Click to expand...

Good observation, i'd take some myself but i'd have to install the game all over again, and i own a disc copy not the steamworks one... will search some more screens, maybe even post a side to side with KFs sight.

Maybe in about 2 weeks, when i have a lot more free time, i'll post my own COD 2 screens.

And about the feeling, i know what you mean. I've played COD 2 for about 3 years, and have been in a good number of national clans at the time, so i have a good ammount of virtual experience with the type of sights used.

You owning an IRL replica and telling the same, i think, means i'm onto something here.

IMO the rear sight (ghost ring) lacks elevation, and consequentially, while aiming the weapon looks extremely horizontal instead of at a small upwards angle like it should. This brings the giant calibration knobs right on top of your line of sight, severely limiting the view. The model is also close to the screen, which just adds to the limitation.
 
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#9
Not surprisingly, the first image depicting an actual M14 "sight picture" is exactly what we should be seeing in-game. The human eye cannot simultaneously focus on three points that are at three different distances. (Rear sight, front sight, target.) The rear ring should always appear as a blur in your field of vision, just as the photograph illustrates. Comparing this with the screenie of the KF M14EBR, it appears our in-game persona is WAY too far back on the comb of the stock, and the comb, (upper edge), of the stock is too low. (Notice how the receiver and fore-end of the rifle is visible in the photograph, and, for that matter, in UserSD's M1 screenie. Compare with the KF-M14EBR shot.) Both of these issues causes our character to be looking more AT the rear sight, rather than THROUGH it. This also causes the rear sight assembly to overly dominate the field-of-view.

Sometimes I've wondered if the artist who modeled the KF M14 was mistakenly going for a "three-dot" effect on the front sight, or was simply trying to depict a bit of highlight, or just some wear and tear. I'd offer that, since the two outer protective "ears" on the front sight contribute nothing whatsoever to the aiming process, those two bright marks on those need to disappear as an unnecessary distraction. I can see having a bit of highlight on the center post, to allow one to find it in the darkness and gloom, but as I've mentioned in the past, it could use some work in terms of making the post more sharply defined. While it may not be exactly old-skool MIL-SPEC, go ahead and place a fluorescent dot on the front sight if it helps.

What is involved in changing the model and animation? I confess to not knowing. But, if someone knowledgeable and talented enough could at least mod the final, "iron-sight" view to have our character cozy-up significantly closer, and a bit higher, to the rear sight, as well as clean-up the front sight post, this weapon might gain some new fans. Then, I could make a wish for TWI to dial-back it's unrealistic recoil values. (This is a 10-1/2 ~ 11lb. (4.8 ~ 5.0kg.) rifle, afterall.) It's a very good weapon, and deserves a minor tweak or two.
 
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#11
Rhenna said:
Not surprisingly, the first image depicting an actual M14 "sight picture" is exactly what we should be seeing in-game. The human eye cannot simultaneously focus on three points that are at three different distances. (Rear sight, front sight, target.) The rear ring should always appear as a blur in your field of vision, just as the photograph illustrates. Comparing this with the screenie of the KF M14EBR, it appears our in-game persona is WAY too far back on the comb of the stock, and the comb, (upper edge), of the stock is too low. (Notice how the receiver and fore-end of the rifle is visible in the photograph, and, for that matter, in UserSD's M1 screenie. Compare with the KF-M14EBR shot.) Both of these issues causes our character to be looking more AT the rear sight, rather than THROUGH it. This also causes the rear sight assembly to overly dominate the field-of-view.

Sometimes I've wondered if the artist who modeled the KF M14 was mistakenly going for a "three-dot" effect on the front sight, or was simply trying to depict a bit of highlight, or just some wear and tear. I'd offer that, since the two outer protective "ears" on the front sight contribute nothing whatsoever to the aiming process, those two bright marks on those need to disappear as an unnecessary distraction. I can see having a bit of highlight on the center post, to allow one to find it in the darkness and gloom, but as I've mentioned in the past, it could use some work in terms of making the post more sharply defined. While it may not be exactly old-skool MIL-SPEC, go ahead and place a fluorescent dot on the front sight if it helps.

What is involved in changing the model and animation? I confess to not knowing. But, if someone knowledgeable and talented enough could at least mod the final, "iron-sight" view to have our character cozy-up significantly closer, and a bit higher, to the rear sight, as well as clean-up the front sight post, this weapon might gain some new fans. Then, I could make a wish for TWI to dial-back it's unrealistic recoil values. (This is a 10-1/2 ~ 11lb. (4.8 ~ 5.0kg.) rifle, afterall.) It's a very good weapon, and deserves a minor tweak or two.
Click to expand...


Actually myope people can focus on anything further than about 10 cm, depending on their eye's convergence


Also the thing about weight is effin true, that thing was a pain to lift and hold when I wanted to take aim.
 
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#12
Then, I could make a wish for TWI to dial-back it's unrealistic recoil values. (This is a 10-1/2 ~ 11lb. (4.8 ~ 5.0kg.) rifle, afterall.) It's a very good weapon, and deserves a minor tweak or two.
Click to expand...

Also the thing about weight is effin true, that thing was a pain to lift and hold when I wanted to take aim.
Click to expand...

I agree, the recoil is a bit too much. I like KF's gunplay on the majority of the weapons, it's very good, but the recoil on the M14 just makes it look like the weapon is mostly made of polymer.
It's not, it's a relatively weighty rifle mostly made from metal. While one would expect to have considerable recoil nonetheless, just the way it's handled ingame kind of makes it look like a plastic gun with a steel barrel.

The human eye cannot simultaneously focus on three points that are at three different distances. (Rear sight, front sight, target.)
Click to expand...

A kind of easy exercise to maybe illustrate this effect, make a "V" with your index and middle fingers of your dominant arm, place them at eye level about 17-20 cm away from your face.
Then with your other arm, point your index finger up, put it at arms lenght alligned between the two fingers, the switch focus between the rear fingers and the front fingers.
The seen effect is usually represented in videogames by blurring the rear sight, altough some videogames do use other techiques that apparently work.


Sometimes I've wondered if the artist who modeled the KF M14 was mistakenly going for a "three-dot" effect on the front sight, or was simply trying to depict a bit of highlight, or just some wear and tear.
Click to expand...

The apparent three dots on the front sight seem to me like the light reflection effect.

I dunno what they are called in real life, but i usually call them "battle scopes"
Click to expand...

Btw, just found out... Reflex/Red dot sights are called reflexive sights, while ACOG are telescopic sights, just like sniper rifle ones, albeit more geared to assault weapons i'd suppose.
 
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#14
Why change the M14? Get use to it and stop whining to be honest. The laser is there for a reason... I can perfectly use the M14 with and without sighting due to the laser. If you want a perfect LONG RANGED shot, the iron sight works perfect as this weapon is technically a sniper rifle which is what EBR stands for, Enhanced Battle Rifle. Stop trying to change stuff you don't like cause you can't use it lol.
 
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#20
Splatpope said:
It is your wording. It's offensive.
Click to expand...
drop it already, like he said before, quit whining.

here i changed the mesh translation for m14 to x=-10.0, saved it into a package (m14adjust.ukx) and made a quick mut so that m14testpickup gives you m14test rifle, which says to use the adjusted m14.
did it in like 4 minutes.

Shot00068-1.jpg
 
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