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Medic Shotgun?

Assuming that you cant carry both the Medi shotgun and the MP7.
I came up with a better way to figure this out. You can't interrupt reload with the MP7 because that is how it is at the moment and I'm not sure if you really should be able to. But, here is the difference. If the shotgun sprays a mist, it sin't a singular point, its an area based spray, this way you don't need to interrupt the reload of the Shotgun, instead you can just allow it to be sprayed while reloading and the spray due to it's area will still be able to get people.
I suppose that sounds good. It'd be nice to be able to shoot something, reload, turn around, spray, finish reloading then shoot again. It would make the Medic more involved in battle, since he doesn't have to worry about the inability to heal during reload, though...

This would not work with medi dart due to when reloading, the barrel will not be facing towards a friend, so being able to fire the medidart at this point would be stupid and make people rage. I think that that idea should cover it... Still up for suggestions.
You're talking about where the bullet hole of the gun points, during reloading, right?
Because, the Medic shotgun isn't out yet. We wouldn't be sure if the Medic's Shotgun points to the cieling when reloading; Which would make him spray the cieling...
If that's what you meant.

Also, with being able to wield both of them, it wouldn't make the medic a killing amchine, the MP7 is useless on anything above a gorefast and the shotgun probably wouldn't be effective on anything higher than a Husk. They are both weak weapons, just varied to make the medic class more interesting, not more powerful.
I would think it'd be more interesting if you weren't able to equip both. That way you could see the preferences of the Medic.
"Is this Medic someone who'll heal me when I'm afar; Or risk his life to run up and spray me?" - If you had both, then the Medic would just change the weapon accordingly to healing. If the user is far; Medigun. Close; Shotgun - Which wouldn't be variety, but all in one.

Thought: The Shotgun's spray heal to use the same regeneration as the syringe? Single, large heals; Or small, AoE (Area of Effect) heals.

I like the above thought too because then you have further variety to heal depending on the situation.

- Whip out the Medigun to heal from afar.
- These two guys need healing; Shotgun spray!
- This person is hurt, but that one out there is too! Medi dart, syringe jab.

If you had the Shotgun incapable of equipping with the Medigun...

- Heal from afar; Hard to aim, requires leading, very touchy with latency, can save time, and your life.
- Jab them with a syringe up close.
/or/
- Spray the two team members in front of me; Then run up to the one ahead and jab him with the Syringe
- Jab this guy with the Syringe

-- And if you had the Shotgun share the same regeneration as the Syringe Gun, then you have to make a choice; Heal them individually with the Syringe gun (And it can be hard to follow people who keep running away to fight) or take a well-timed shot with the Shotgun spray, to hit multiple targets in front of you? (Much like; A Medi-dart prediction) except you'd more than likely be able to actually hit the person, being an AoE spray

The interest would come under what profession of healing the player would go under. Is this a Medic who will take his chances at trying to hit you from afar, or risk his life to save you?
 
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what about simply changing the medic perk so it adds the medic syringes to every weapon(barring melee and possibly big weapons like law/m32/scar/m14/xbow/aa12/hunting shotgun/flamethrower) and replaces the secondary function with the healing function? the balance of this would be that the medic forgoes the damage boost of the other perk but can heal with every weapon instead while still being able to do damage and work on other perks and heal at the same time. lets face it most medics carry backup weapons anyway. this would just equal less weapon switching.
 
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what about simply changing the medic perk so it adds the medic syringes to every weapon(barring melee and possibly big weapons like law/m32/scar/m14/xbow/aa12/hunting shotgun/flamethrower) and replaces the secondary function with the healing function? the balance of this would be that the medic forgoes the damage boost of the other perk but can heal with every weapon instead while still being able to do damage and work on other perks and heal at the same time. lets face it most medics carry backup weapons anyway. this would just equal less weapon switching.

Nah, that would make the class way too powerful. What would be the point in using an MP7 when a bullpup or AK would do the same job but have much better damage? It needs to be a specific weapon balanced for the medic class.
 
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Nah, that would make the class way too powerful. What would be the point in using an MP7 when a bullpup or AK would do the same job but have much better damage? It needs to be a specific weapon balanced for the medic class.
Agreed, in which case an important negative effect on using backup weapons on the Medic is you need to change back to the Syringe or Medigun to heal; Opening that vulnerable time frame.
If you're not changing to the Syringe/Medigun often, then why are you playing Medic at all.
 
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Nah, that would make the class way too powerful. What would be the point in using an MP7 when a bullpup or AK would do the same job but have much better damage? It needs to be a specific weapon balanced for the medic class.
you could always just dump the mp7. or reduce the healing ability of the other weapons slightly compared to the the mp7 so the mp7 heals more than the secondary effect of the other weapons. its not uncommon for a perk to have effects that branch out to other perk's weapons. sharpshooter gives headshot bonus to everything. and commando gives reload bonus. stapling the medic into just one option is rather boring even if its effective.
 
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you could always just dump the mp7. or reduce the healing ability of the other weapons slightly compared to the the mp7 so the mp7 heals more than the secondary effect of the other weapons. its not uncommon for a perk to have effects that branch out to other perk's weapons. sharpshooter gives headshot bonus to everything. and commando gives reload bonus. stapling the medic into just one option is rather boring even if its effective.

I definately can't see how removing weapons from the game would be a benefit in any way - we're trying to add variety not remove it :)

Adding a healing ability to all weapons, even if it's reduced in potency, would only serve to water-down the class and make it easier to play.
 
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Going back to the shotgun idea, you can always add the MP7M a *little* more damage, and make the medic shotgun with a small magazine, like 3 or 4 bucks, weaker than the Support Specialist basic shotgun, but with more projectiles spread?
Adding more damage to the MP7M would leave it as an alternative, "shotgun or SMG", depending on people's choices.
 
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I definately can't see how removing weapons from the game would be a benefit in any way - we're trying to add variety not remove it :)

Adding a healing ability to all weapons, even if it's reduced in potency, would only serve to water-down the class and make it easier to play.
ok i admit dumping the mp7 is a bit crude. adding more medic weapons is a rather nice idea to be honest. maybe a change could be made to where the mp7 can add to commando and a future medic shotgun could add to shotgun. this would encourage most ****head public server medics to do more than stand in a corner and heal when needed. and would also make the weapon switching issue a non issue. making medic easier to play is NOT a bad thing. this is a coop game after all. the other perks would still be the primary damage dealers but a more capable medic would allow some wiggle room and allow altered team mechanics. you wouldn't be able to roll 6 medics and steamroll hoe(barring exceptions) but the medic would be able to take care of stray clots/stalkers if in a jam maybe a gorefast and allow the more powerful people to deal with the majority of the enemies/scrakes/fps/husks.
 
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I see what you're saying, and I almost agree, but i can't say yes to having medic syringe on all guns. It would make it too easy for medic, which i normally play and have no trouble keeping my team alive (when they stay together :rolleyes:). I love the idea of some new medic weapons, but they have to have different mechanics of working. Otherwise you'll end up with a shotgun that shoots long range heal darts? :eek: The spray just makes more sense and is much more intersting.

The thing with the reload on the Shotgun and the spray at the same time is due to it being an Area spreay, it would still get the team in reload animation. The cloud would still be there and I'm assuming the script would work by detecting if and part of the player is touching it. If so they get healed. The cloud would be what, 3 people in diameter? That's a pretty descent cloud, it wouldn't matter if reloading or not because it would probably still get them.
 
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Considering there is only one alt-fire button it would be impossible to add syringe attachments to any Commando rifles, M14, 9mm, any Shotgun, Mac10...you get the point?

I disagree on the MP7 being useless against medium Zeds. Against a Husk a close-range spray to the head will quickly decap it. Bloats obviously have tiny head health. Sirens are a bit of a problem but can be decapped without too much strife if ambushed around a corner, or with a bit of room to kite. Such a shotgun would be similarly effective against medium Zeds at close range.

Also, I don't think the Medic Shotgun should have an interruptible reload. This is one of the main drawbacks of the Medic's perk weapons and should be a staple to prevent them becoming effective compared to any other perk. However on the healing option, how about the spray heals about 30hp (45 with lv6 Medic) on a solid hit, but uses 100% of the shared MP7/Shotgun syringe charge?
 
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Assuming that you cant carry both the Medi shotgun and the MP7.
I came up with a better way to figure this out. You can't interrupt reload with the MP7 because that is how it is at the moment and I'm not sure if you really should be able to. But, here is the difference. If the shotgun sprays a mist, it sin't a singular point, its an area based spray, this way you don't need to interrupt the reload of the Shotgun, instead you can just allow it to be sprayed while reloading and the spray due to it's area will still be able to get people.

This would not work with medi dart due to when reloading, the barrel will not be facing towards a friend, so being able to fire the medidart at this point would be stupid and make people rage. I think that that idea should cover it... Still up for suggestions.

Also, with being able to wield both of them, it wouldn't make the medic a killing amchine, the MP7 is useless on anything above a gorefast and the shotgun probably wouldn't be effective on anything higher than a Husk. They are both weak weapons, just varied to make the medic class more interesting, not more powerful.

The MP7M is still viable against Sirens and Husks, also Bloats.

I know this from personal experiences.
 
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The MP7M is still viable against Sirens and Husks, also Bloats.

I know this from personal experiences.

Yes, you'd be suprised. As far as I remember it's not exactly ammo-efficient (haven't played with a MP7-swinging medic in what feels like ages :S) but it gets the job done pretty well. Just remember rule no.1 - aim for the face.
 
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I prefer the alt-fire to heal setup.

I'm not, I'm totally against it; what would it shoot? Bullets made of health?!
Ridiculous.

Was this idea straight out of Bioshock 2?
The Handcannon already has penetration and similar damage to this, so the weapon would be too similar to the Handcannon I think.

uhm, thats what shotgun slugs do. but all this aside, i am seeing lots of suggestions for stuff that it could shoot, and not enough ways to make it not just another gun with a med dart mod attached.
 
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The Shotgun reload wouldn't be interruptible, but it might be able to spray during the reload due to area of effect rather than a singular point.
Wannas said:
Also, I don't think the Medic Shotgun should have an interruptible reload. This is one of the main drawbacks of the Medic's perk weapons and should be a staple to prevent them becoming effective compared to any other perk.
As Wanna said. If you could use the spray during the reload of the Medi-Shotgun then it's essentially still an interuptable reload; Since you'd only need to interupt if for healing through the Syringe, or the Dart/Mist - In which... Why change to the syringe if you could just spray them while reloading?

I've had many times where our team was being attacked from the front, and at the back I had to shoot a few clots/gorefasts to save my butt; Since no one was watching mine. Only to reload after they're dead, then realize someone is being attacked by a Fleshpound and they're nearly dead; But I couldn't dart them because of the reload.

Being incapable of healing, while you reload is one of the downfalls of the Medic. Healing is an huge necessity in the game; And though you're capable of taking a lot of damage; It doesn't mean your team members shouldn't be watching your back - So that you don't get into the position I did; Where I couldn't heal due to reloading when someone was critical.

It's team work; In return of them protecting you, you keep them alive through giving them health; So that you don't have to ever reload your gun. However, there does come a time where you'll have to fire a round because everyone makes mistakes, and you can't be babysit forever.

It's why Battle Medics aren't a good idea in this game. Needing to reload leaves you incapable of healing a team member, and during critical moments, loses a team member.
If you were able to use the Spray Heal for the shotgun, then Medics would just fight with their shotgun, then spray when reloading because they don't ever need to change to the Syringe or be careful when they use their weapon.
 
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It needs to have some backdrafts
Well, Medic can already carry an MP7 and Shotgun.
With this shotgun being even weaker, I see no problem being able to carry both, other than the Medic being too effective at healing.
The backdraft would of course be piss poor damage, which would affect you greater with each increase in difficulty.
Adding more damage to the MP7M would leave it as an alternative, "shotgun or SMG", depending on people's choices.
That was the dream man; a bit more variety, but only really a healing advantage. Neither gun should be outperforming the other.
[QUOTE=͡
 
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Well, Medic can already carry an MP7 and Shotgun.
With this shotgun being even weaker, I see no problem being able to carry both, other than the Medic being too effective at healing.
The backdraft would of course be piss poor damage, which would affect you greater with each increase in difficulty.
Yeah, but remember an MP7 and Shotgun are two different weapons; And the shotgun requires more weight to use. You also have to swap from the shotgun to the MP7 to heal.
The Syringe means you have to run right up to someone, which can be an issue when someone is critical at a distance; But, some players don't even use the MP7 because they prefer the option of acquiring an arsenal of weaponry and stabbing with a syringe.
This play style could still exist with the Medi-Shotgun if someone wanted...

I'm just saying, we shouldn't be putting the MP7's dart on an weaker version of a shotgun. Recycling game models/mechanics/effects/etc. is a good way to get the community to complain. TF2 did this with their latest weapons and the rants at how boring they are was massive.
When a dart hits a player, it bursts in a green smoke; If we just copied and pasted that 5 times over for the front of the Medi-Shotgun to be a spray, where users within' would be healed; Then though, it's re-using the effect, it's still a whole different mechanic/style which would still be enjoyable ; And being able to heal multiple users at once, were it to heal lesser than the Medigun's Dart / Syringe Gun, then it wouldn't be the only thing used to heal, or be redundant.

I believe we've all agreed the Medic shotgun should be crappy anyway, compared to the average shotgun.
 
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I keep seeing these arguments: the two weapons together, and the reload/heal efficiency of the shotty. So here's my 2 cents
On carrying both weapons: the whole idea of the shotgun is that it takes care of grouped enemies in close range, where the MP7 fails. To take away the MP7 would just wreck the whole idea of having the shotty, because you would always find yourself needing the other one. and while switching twixt weapons would make for quick healing, any medic above level 3 can heal with the syring as fast as it reloads and then dart anyone further away, so that's not much of an argument. If the shotty weighed 6 and the MP7 is 3, that's 9, which still gives room for something else tho, so i think the Shotty go up weight by 1 - then you can't carry a scar and both guns, which is what i'd do.

On the reloading and healing thing. The gun should have a 3/4 round capacity with a slot feed. That way even a lvl 6 medic only has 6-8 shots, and pumping them into a crowd trying to get to someone will empty those fast. If it were mag fed, and u could heal at the same time, you could heal and reload and rush off to target #2. which is bad. to easy. I like the spray heal thingy, and it should interrupt reload. Which means it needs an LAR style reload. That way the medic rushes in, reloads a round or two, heals the guy, reloads as he runs off, and 5-8 seconds later he's got most of his shots back.

ALSO> with multiple medic guns and teh syringe, i think the medic should be re-organized medi-charge wise. Instead of 3/4 individual weaps and charges, the medic should have a medic-pack that charges them and they all connect to the pack, so each gun shares the charge. maybe the syringe would be separate, but i think it ought to be linked. The only thing is, the medi-pack has a total charge of 150, so a medic gets another shot or two per charge up.
 
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That way even a lvl 6 medic only has 6-8 shots, and pumping them into a crowd trying to get to someone will empty those fast.
I don't think the shotgun should have that many rounds. It'd be too offensive and pose into Support's specialties.

If it were mag fed, and u could heal at the same time, you could heal and reload and rush off to target #2. which is bad. to easy. I like the spray heal thingy, and it should interrupt reload. Which means it needs an LAR style reload. That way the medic rushes in, reloads a round or two, heals the guy, reloads as he runs off, and 5-8 seconds later he's got most of his shots back.
If the gun reloads the bullets/shells individually, then the Medic can fire, reload, heal, fire, reload, heal - Mix and match in that pattern for whatever.
The reason I don't feel individual shell reload to be a good since it it's an more offensive approach to reloading; Where, if you shoot something, reload then turn around to see a Gorefast coming in; You've already put in one shell, and you can shoot it before it gets to you.
Magazine reloads have a longer reload, since they give you the full bullet/shell capacity - And being a longer reload makes the Medic become cautious as to when they'll reload.

If you reloaded the shells individually at say; 1 shell a second...
Fire, Fire, Fire, Reload, someone became critical!, Heal, Continue reloading.
If you reloaded the whole magazine to be a 3 second wait...
Fire, Fire, Fire; Specimens attacking you are dead, reload, someone became critical! still reloading... ... They died. Finished reloading.

Through loading individually you can cancel reloading. Not to say, you instantly stop the animation of the character putting the shell in - But there's under a second in putting the shell in, where you can interupt the "Load every bullet" proccess by firing a round.
You can't with magazine reloads.

Doing this I find would make a Medic more offensive-oriented than supportive; Since they could sit on the front lines, firing shots off, and when they're reloading they could just cancel the next-shell animation to heal.
Do that with a MP7 you'll have to wait for the whole magazine to go in, which is a good 3 or so seconds of "MEDIC, PATCH ME UP OHGAWD."

-- However not to intrude on the territory of the AA12's capabilities, being able to reload a whole magazine with a shotgun? Pshaw! That's why I think it should only have about 2~4 shots capable; Making the actual shotgun, more appealing to those who want to use close-range-attacks.

ALSO> with multiple medic guns and teh syringe, i think the medic should be re-organized medi-charge wise. Instead of 3/4 individual weaps and charges, the medic should have a medic-pack that charges them and they all connect to the pack, so each gun shares the charge. maybe the syringe would be separate, but i think it ought to be linked. The only thing is, the medi-pack has a total charge of 150, so a medic gets another shot or two per charge up.
This confused me sorry ^^;
 
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How about both (all) medic weapons share the same charge, but the shotgun fires half a dozen 'mini-darts' in a fairly tight cone like a shotgun blast. Each dart does only a small amount of healing, but they have some penetration so you can potentially heal multiple people at the same time (kinda like the mist idea but a bit simpler to implement I think). Have it use all 100 charge in one go though, so you have to choose between using up all your charge with less risk of missing, or using the MP7M which can quickly deliver 3 heals but requires careful aim.
 
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