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An idea to refresh dual pistols!

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#21
[UIT] Akame said:
I never challenged you to be able to do so, though I sure wouldn't want to try myself. I assume that you probably have relatively a high perk level since you are playing HoE so why bother using the 9mm as your main?

Sharps are not sweepers; you don't have to clear a hallway, nor are you meant to and I have to think you are exaggerating a bit since even though clots, stalkers, bloats, and gorefasts all die from lv6 sharp 9mm headshots, to get 15 or even 10 kills with one clip on HoE with a varied set of specimen would be difficult. Using such a position to claim that the 9mm could or should be nerfed further is a logical fallacy at best (claiming an outlier as a representative set).

Even then there are much better weapons for the sharpshooter, particularly if they are doing their job of dealing with the tougher enemies (like Husks and Sirens which take roughly half a clip of headshots from the 9mm to kill). The bullpup in semi-auto works just about as well and is cheaper to stock ammo for anyway, to say nothing of effectiveness in combat.
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I'm not saying it should be nerfed further, I am saying it is still a decent weapon. I use it because I find it enjoyable to use. As for the 10 kills per mag, it depends on situation and makeup, and yeah, I have gotten 15 kills with a mag more than once. I am not just going to stand around with a crossbow waiting for a husk or siren, which I don't try to use a 9mm on anyways. I'll shoot whatever is there. People I play with on my server work together, and commandos don't get butthurt if I blow away a crowd of crawlers with my 9mm. Everyone's job is killing specimens, when the bigs come out, they know to cover me while I snipe them, until then, we all just kill stuff. For the bullpup suggestion, I can't carry an xbow with it, and I find a 9mm and handcannon together do the majority of what I need to kill.

I use the 9mm as a main because I am good enough, and it is challenging and fun. I even play the STALKER series, a game renowned for its difficulty, with a suppressed 9mm as my main weapon. I also did it on counter-strike, years ago when I actually played. My main weapon was the P226, and I generally led the scoreboard.

I have a lvl 6 sharp with around 60k headshots. I played commando until the update because the sharp was a boring spam class. I love it now.

And it is magazine, not clip. There is a huge difference.
 
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#22
FloorKilling said:
My issue is horriable recoil and accuracy of the HCs. I did not know how bad it was untill I was missing clots at point blank range. Its like what's the point of even calling it sharp shooter if it cant compensate recoil automatically?

Cant wait to see the how people defend the over-nerfing of Sharp shooter and how many negatives i get.
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Are you talking singles or duals? If it is singles, you gotta wait for the sights to realign before you shoot again if you want to be accurate. That is automatically compensating for recoil, the sights are returning to their previous position. Slow down, wait for the sights to realign, and shoot again. You will hit what you are aiming at every time. Also, some of the buggy head hitboxes are probably an issue as well. The sharp was not over nerfed, it is perfectly fine now, and how the class should be.
 
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#23
Rainydaykid said:
I'm not saying it should be nerfed further
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You said:
Rainydaykid said:
perhaps you could drop them to 10 mags for the 9mm, and bump the damage a tad
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You said it could have fewer mags and 'bump' the damage, though you didn't specify up or down.

Rainydaykid said:
I am not just going to stand around with a crossbow waiting for a husk or siren
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Nor should you, but then you aren't maining 9mm. Clearly we are having a issue as to what 'maining' means. You are prioritizing killing large enemies using the crossbow to protect the team. Thus you are maining crossbow and when you are not actively pursuing your priority, you take the time to help other teammates.

Rainydaykid said:
For the bullpup suggestion, I can't carry an xbow with it, and I find a 9mm and handcannon together do the majority of what I need to kill.
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I'm not saying you should be carrying it as a sharpshooter, though that would be interesting to try. My point was if you are using the 9mm as you main weapon (what you are prioritizing as your main target is based on what you main) that you would be better served to be a commando since they are better sweepers and the bullpup is a entirely superior weapon except that it has weight.
Rainydaykid said:
I even play the STALKER series, a game renowned for its difficulty
...
other look at me stuff
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Please don't bother posting this stuff as it doesn't matter if you were nor can I obviously prove that you are not. No such statement is necessary to defend your point and only makes you sound like an internet tough guy. Note that I understand there are crazy good people, regardless of your or anyone elses' inclusion in that group, that can do stuff in video games that many would label as impossible. I always said in my statements that certain things are unlikely and you yourself noted that such situation depend on situation and make up.
Outliers. I hope you have heard of them because they are relevant.

Rainydaykid said:
And it is magazine, not clip. There is a huge difference.
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I know and I am still going to use them interchangeably because I have in the past and will not think about it when I am writing about it next time. As will everyone else.
 
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#24
[UIT] Akame said:
You said:

You said it could have fewer mags and 'bump' the damage, though you didn't specify up or down.

Bump specifically means raise.

Nor should you, but then you aren't maining 9mm. Clearly we are having a issue as to what 'maining' means. You are prioritizing killing large enemies using the crossbow to protect the team. Thus you are maining crossbow and when you are not actively pursuing your priority, you take the time to help other teammates.

I specify "maining" as the weapon I use most of the time, to kill most of my enemies. I use the crossbow on bigs, but I use it on occasion, so I do not consider that I am using it as a main weapon. Different definitions, I guess. I use a pistol most of the time, and a crossbow on occasion.

 I'm not saying you should be carrying it as a sharpshooter, though that would be interesting to try. My point was if you are using the 9mm as you main weapon (what you are prioritizing as your main target is based on what you main) that you would be better served to be a commando since they are better sweepers and the bullpup is a entirely superior weapon except that it has weight.

I do play commando a lot, and the class I use depends on how I feel and what weapon I am in the mood for. This doesn't mean that I cannot sweep with a 9mm as a sharp.

Please don't bother posting this stuff as it doesn't matter if you were nor can I obviously prove that you are not. No such statement is necessary to defend your point and only makes you sound like an internet tough guy. Note that I understand there are crazy good people, regardless of your or anyone elses' inclusion in that group, that can do stuff in video games that many would label as impossible. I always said in my statements that certain things are unlikely and you yourself noted that such situation depend on situation and make up.
Outliers. I hope you have heard of them because they are relevant.

I am familiar with statistics. As for being really good at FPS games, I have been playing them since 1993. It has nothing to do with "being an internet tough guy", I am just damn good at videogames. Other people are good at other sports, it just depends. I enjoy using handguns in games because they are usually more of a challenge and it is just fun to do. This also includes beating Goldeneye 64 on 00 agent with a PP7, and RE4 on professional with 97% acc. I am definitely an "outlier" when it comes to gaming. Back when I played Halo when I was in the Army, it took 15 beers before anyone in my unit had a chance.

 I know and I am still going to use them interchangeably because I have in the past and will not think about it when I am writing about it next time. As will everyone else.

But they are not interchangeable, that is my point. They are two different devices. You might as well call a clip a bolt or spring or slide or some other gun part, it is just as wrong.
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Replies in bold.
 
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#25
Bump does not specifically mean raise. You might use it as such but for clarity's sake you could use a work like, say, buff.

I realize that clips and mags are different but they are still quite similar. Enough so, many people will use the term interchangeably. Clips feed ammo into mags so really reserve ammo could be either except most games don't show ammo being loaded into a mag on reload. Calling everything a clip is like calling a shampoo, soap. While some shampoos contain soap, and they both are entirely different things. But no one cares if you refer to shampoo as hair soap because you usually refer to soap as a cleaning agent for the body rather than the salt of a fatty acid (the chemical definition).
 
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#26
Hmm a little derail there, eh?

Anyway, back to the main point. Some things that i think are overlooked bonuses with this (If we go with the double weight and double ammo standpoint):

1) If you have a full loadout, including a Single Handcannon, you won't automatically pickup the second pistol. Compare that to the current situation, even without the ammo bug in consideration it's annoying to pick up a second HC (and even with a full loadout you WILL pick up a 2nd HC if you walk over it :(), cuz then you would have to throw the second pistol away and basicly half of your ammo, which is bad.

2) To add to point 1, if this was implemented with dual weight and double ammo, if you DO have spare weight and accidentally pick up a 2nd pistol, you can throw it back down on the ground without losing much ammo (or even gaining ammo!). Why? Well, your max ammo cap is doubled, so you won't waste any ammo whatsoever if you pick up a pistol, but rather the ammo would just be split between the weapons if you throw one back down on the floor. Some examples:

* HC on yourself has full ammo (72 of 72) and you pick up another one with full ammo (72/72). You now have 144/144 ammo. Throwing away one pistol would reduce you back to 72/72 for the one in your hand and the thrown away pistol likewise. So, nothing happened! This is a major benefit with my suggestion.
* HC on self has medium ammo (48/72) and you pickup another one which has less ammo (say, 24/72). You now have 72/144. Throwing away one leaves the one in your hand and the one now back on the ground with 36/72 ammo. While this is not all too good, it's still only as bad as the current one (ignoring the pickup ammobug)
* HC on self has low ammo (24/72) and you pickup another one which has full ammo (72/72). You now have 96/144. Throwing away one leaves the one in your hand and the one now back on the ground both with 48/72 ammo each. That means you actually got MORE ammo, but also leaves you with an option which promotes the Dual Pistol use even further, to KEEP the second pistol to keep all of that ammo :p
 
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#28
Okay, before any of u start trolling this thread - answer this question - WHO ever uses double pistols!? :eek:
Exactly. If u see ANYONE except from newbs using it, then I see no problem in leaving it as it is. But for the Christ's sake - what's the double pistols' purpose in game anyway!? Cuz only purpose I see in picking up pistol is at wave 1 and 2 just to sell it to trader... :eek:
 
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#30
BenioX said:
Okay, before any of u start trolling this thread - answer this question - WHO ever uses double pistols!? :eek:
Exactly. If u see ANYONE except from newbs using it, then I see no problem in leaving it as it is. But for the Christ's sake - what's the double pistols' purpose in game anyway!? Cuz only purpose I see in picking up pistol is at wave 1 and 2 just to sell it to trader... :eek:
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I use dulies for your information :mad:
the dual 9mms are good for sharpshooters who are good at aiming well from the hip especially since it doesnt get a reload bonus anyway. the dual handcannons are good for commandos or sharpshooters who like the comfort of a panic weapon. Neither really needs a buff that much.
 
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#33
I don't think more ammo is the answer for making dualies useful again. The problem is not running out of ammo, it's that a single 9mm or HC is safer then duals because of the quicker reload time, and the fact that it's easier to aim with.

I would say just make dualies medic weapons, with appropriate benefits. And then give us the option to press a button to pick things up instead of doing it automatically.
 
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#35
9_6 said:
Slap autofire or 1 click, 2 shots-"burst fire" on top of it?
The main issue is that they're spam-weapons but you have to click for each shot imo.
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Who'd want to even use it? Seriously, even if anyone made it one-click spam weapon, nobody would use it. Waste of ammo and money to keep dual pistols. Maybe though adding a lil bonus to medic for dualies would make this weapon more useful and Med having finally a 2nd weapon...? :troll:
 
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#36
I'd like to have it like in Serious Sam or Red Faction:
Even if you own 2 pistols of the same type, single and dual are considered independent weapons.
Meaning if you bought 2 HCs you can switch between single- & dualwield anytime, depending on your needs.

P.S.: Why do people want to give random weapons to medic class these days ?
 
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#40
9_6 said:
Slap autofire or 1 click, 2 shots-"burst fire" on top of it?
The main issue is that they're spam-weapons but you have to click for each shot imo.
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The dualies apparently have a lower cycle time if you can click fast enough for it to make a difference (.175 vs .1 seconds). While dual HC makes sense as a spam weapon, why would you use dual 9mm for spam? They are tons better with headshots and it is much harder to land headshots with the dualies, particularly at long range or when getting mobbed. And dualies takes up weight that could be used for dual HC instead, which is much better for spamming.
 
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