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Project Realism Changes

Susi

Grizzled Veteran
Jan 31, 2008
457
295
Finland
The RO community have spoken and 50% of everybody wanted game to be
more realistic, which means 400 votes and im quite sure it wont be
ignored, so realism it will be.

How ever i have seen quite many comments under realism, which doesnt
have anything to do with realism. Basicly those comments base on thinking
that RO1 was realistic, which isnt totally true. RO1 was different from all
arcade shooters, but it doesnt make it 100% realistic. Here is the list
what im thinking on current gameplay and what should be changed.

Running
Many players say that soldiers run absolutly too fast and that they should get
exhausted much easier.
That isnt true. The distances you usually run in RO2 are from 20meter to 50
meter. Any soldier can run that distance really fast. Crossing a street takes
only few secs. So problem isnt running speed, problem is that there isnt
large open areas to play. My friend refused to believe until he played
that Ogledow map where you once again run the same distances you use
to run in RO:Ost


But the real problem which make it hard to hit running target is strafeing.
You are able to strafe left and right while sprinting, which is totally
unpossible.
You can try it right now. And if somebody is able to post a
video where he is sprinting full speed and is able to strafe without losing
balance, i promise to make custom maps for you 24/7 rest of my life.
So strafe keys should be disabled while sprinting, and used for glance
to left and right.

From hip to shoulder
Some say that this also happens too fast. Again not true. You can do it really
fast, once again test by yourself. What should take longer is that weapon
aligns perfectly
. So weapon should pop up from hip to shoulder as fast
it does now and be ready for shooting. But it should take longer that its
perfectly aligned for 100 meter shot. Because that needs some focusing
compared to getting weapon from hip to shoulder which is carry out by
trained reflex.

Reloading
Well there is nothing wrong in realoading, dont change anything on it.
On Ro1 it was absolutly too slow. Like friend of mine said about RO1
who was in army while i use to play RO1 "If i would realod that slow
Sergant would make me practice it as long as it takes that i realod
twice faster".

Sway
I totally agree ingreaseing sway, at least when you stand up with weapon on your shoulder.

MG-hip fireing
That have been said really unrealistic after that one player posted video
where he is storming whole building with MG. But that player is clearly
really skilled and normal player cant use MG that effectively. And some
players say that hip fireing is unpossible at all. I have seen many
videos ww2 and nowadays, where mg is shooted from hip. Even some
ww2 footage where german mg soldier runs'n'guns, how ever i cant tell
did he manage to hit anything. But im sure it can be used for room
clearing. And after we get maps with open terrain hip fireing mg doesnt
work anymore
. However biggest problem on mg is that recoil which you
get while shooting from bipod. No it doesnt climb up, but instead push
shooter down
, which is weird and makes proper useing really hard, which
make most of the mgers to use it as a run'n'gun weapon.

Mkb42
Should be moved to elite rifleman, or which ever role got least slots.
Those who maxed assault role up because of Mkb42 get mad. Rest of
players will get happy.
 
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Agreed on most points... it's very true that Ostfront did not have perfectly realistic mechanics, and that it is not always a good measure of ideal realism. I might even add that total realism also does not necessarily correlate with enjoyable gameplay--hence why no tactical first-person-shooter has yet implemented a weapon jamming system.

While LMG hipfiring will certainly be less effective on open maps, I don't want to play on close-in maps like Grain Elevator or Station and face that kind of gameplay. The close-quarters maps are fine maps in their own right, and limiting this mechanic will further improve the gameplay on them. Hipfiring a WWII-era light machine gun while walking is difficult. Doing it while jogging, in reality, would be dangerous, tiring, difficult, a complete misuse of the weapon, and ineffective. If anything, LMG hipfire should be a last resort--not an experienced player's go-to tactic in close quarters.

Also, a true realism mode should limit the Mkb even further--I would personally prefer that it not be present at all, though I agree that no more than one should be available at any one time--if even that!
 
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Running

But the real problem which make it hard to hit running target is strafeing.
You are able to strafe left and right while sprinting, which is totally
unpossible.

Not agreed. Strafing isn't really strafing, its running forwards while looking left / right. Seeing how we don't have a free-look button, being able to look left / right is essential to achieve situational awareness.

From hip to shoulder
What should take longer is that weapon
aligns perfectly

Agreed.

Reloading
Agreed with lods of emone that it becomes too fast (and out of synch in case of mg34 belt) at higher levels

Sway
I totally agree ingreaseing sway, at least when you stand up with weapon on your shoulder.

Agreed, only needs small increase, and linked to stamina

MG-hip fireing

Mkb42

Agreed
 
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But the real problem which make it hard to hit running target is strafeing.
You are able to strafe left and right while sprinting, which is totally
unpossible.
You can try it right now. And if somebody is able to post a
video where he is sprinting full speed and is able to strafe without losing
balance, i promise to make custom maps for you 24/7 rest of my life.
So strafe keys should be disabled while sprinting, and used for glance
to left and right.

Texas Tech WR drills 3 - YouTube

You can start making my maps anytime.

I also hope for sake of your health that you are able to do this.
 
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Running
Many players say that soldiers run absolutly too fast and that they should get
exhausted much easier.
The problem is not maximum speed, is infinite acceleration that makes you accelerate to maximum speed in no time, and stop again in no time, and also making impossible turns while sprinting.

Also you cen run equally fast in flat terrain, climbing a hill or on stairs. This is unrealistic.

Maraz
 
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Running
Many players say that soldiers run absolutly too fast and that they should get
exhausted much easier.
That isnt true. The distances you usually run in RO2 are from 20meter to 50
meter. Any soldier can run that distance really fast. Crossing a street takes
only few secs. So problem isnt running speed, problem is that there isnt
large open areas to play. My friend refused to believe until he played
that Ogledow map where you once again run the same distances you use
to run in RO:Ost


But the real problem which make it hard to hit running target is strafeing.
You are able to strafe left and right while sprinting, which is totally
unpossible.
You can try it right now. And if somebody is able to post a
video where he is sprinting full speed and is able to strafe without losing
balance, i promise to make custom maps for you 24/7 rest of my life.
So strafe keys should be disabled while sprinting, and used for glance
to left and right.

I agree that you can run that fast on flat and clear ground, however you wouldn't do that while bricks, garbage would be laying on a ground. Also you don't run that fast upstairs or uphill. Other thing is player character acceleration, it's unrealistically quick, especially on higher levels when you get that +20% faster sprinting bonus.

From hip to shoulder
Some say that this also happens too fast. Again not true. You can do it really
fast, once again test by yourself. What should take longer is that weapon
aligns perfectly
. So weapon should pop up from hip to shoulder as fast
it does now and be ready for shooting. But it should take longer that its
perfectly aligned for 100 meter shot. Because that needs some focusing
compared to getting weapon from hip to shoulder which is carry out by
trained reflex.

Agree, however it's totally unrealistic when player after very long spring can kill a guy 100 meters away in 0.5 second with first shot. It takes some time to stop from sprinting, raise weapon, take a deep breath and aim. RO2 needs more momentum simulation or "hip to shoulder" should take more time.

Reloading
Well there is nothing wrong in realoading, dont change anything on it.
On Ro1 it was absolutly too slow. Like friend of mine said about RO1
who was in army while i use to play RO1 "If i would realod that slow
Sergant would make me practice it as long as it takes that i realod
twice faster".

At lvl 0 it's OK, but when you level up it looks unrealistic. Ie. MG-34 50 lvl.
Also game doesn't simulate that you keep your clips/magazines in pockets. It looks like your magazines are flying in front of yout belly/chest. I believe your friend had his magazines right next to his hand. In RO2 reload animation is very fast, that it doesn't simulate putting used magazines back to pockets.

Sway
I totally agree ingreaseing sway, at least when you stand up with weapon on your shoulder.

I think entire community agrees on this one.


MG-hip fireing
That have been said really unrealistic after that one player posted video
where he is storming whole building with MG. But that player is clearly
really skilled and normal player cant use MG that effectively. And some
players say that hip fireing is unpossible at all. I have seen many
videos ww2 and nowadays, where mg is shooted from hip. Even some
ww2 footage where german mg soldier runs'n'guns, how ever i cant tell
did he manage to hit anything. But im sure it can be used for room
clearing. And after we get maps with open terrain hip fireing mg doesnt
work anymore
. However biggest problem on mg is that recoil which you
get while shooting from bipod. No it doesnt climb up, but instead push
shooter down
, which is weird and makes proper useing really hard, which
make most of the mgers to use it as a run'n'gun weapon.

Don't agree. I have 50 lvl MG and 3X lvl DP and about 50% of my kills are hip kills. It isn't difficult to:
- play it like a rambo in CQB all the time
- kill enemies at 100+ meters from hip
To keep it authentic MG recoil when deployed should be realistic (kick backwards, not upwards like in RO2) and hipfiring should be possible only in combat stance (like in RO:O). Currently running and hipfiring is more effective than original MG purpose (deployed) - it is simply wrong.

Mkb42
Should be moved to elite rifleman, or which ever role got least slots.
Those who maxed assault role up because of Mkb42 get mad. Rest of
players will get happy.

It should be rare, really rare, as TWI promised. They said, that Mkb and AVT weapons will be available only for heroes. Something went really wrong because now there are more prototype weapons (which never saw battle of Stalingrad) than regular SMG weapons.
Also for me and some other players MkB42/AVT breaks the sound in game and makes it very unpleasant. I have no problems with sound on clanwars where ALL prototype weapons and unlocks are disabled.
 
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But the real problem which make it hard to hit running target is strafeing.
You are able to strafe left and right while sprinting, which is totally
unpossible.
You can try it right now. And if somebody is able to post a
video where he is sprinting full speed and is able to strafe without losing
balance, i promise to make custom maps for you 24/7 rest of my life.
Not that **** again!
Play BC2 see how you like it when you cant strafe it feels unnatural.
In real life I can turn my torso while running and I can turn my head, beeing able to strafe is the best way to simulate this.

I dont want tunnel vision when running, or turn my head on strafe this is very confusing and the game is not a flight sim ok.

Mkb42
Should be moved to elite rifleman, or which ever role got least slots.
Those who maxed assault role up because of Mkb42 get mad. Rest of
players will get happy.
Give the Mkb to the one on the team who has made most points or most team points or something like that.

From hip to shoulder
Some say that this also happens too fast. Again not true. You can do it really
fast, once again test by yourself. What should take longer is that weapon
aligns perfectly
. So weapon should pop up from hip to shoulder as fast
it does now and be ready for shooting. But it should take longer that its
perfectly aligned for 100 meter shot. Because that needs some focusing
compared to getting weapon from hip to shoulder which is carry out by
trained reflex.
I agree with that, I think it should be so that you either shoot too high or to low when its not perfectly aligned, the good player can compensate a little for that on short distance and can shoot before its aligned.
On a distance a shot like this would be a total miss of course.
 
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Not that **** again!
Play BC2 see how you like it when you cant strafe it feels unnatural.
In real life I can turn my torso while running and I can turn my head, beeing able to strafe is the best way to simulate this.

I dont want tunnel vision when running, or turn my head on strafe this is very confusing and the game is not a flight sim ok.

Free look (like in ArmA 2) would fix that. Community posted dozens of times about implementation of that, but TWI refused.
 
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I agree with Susi

I think these should be added to project realism too:

-Running speed up stairs should decresed
-Bandaging time increased like 5 secs or more
-Increased bleeding time generally
-When wounded more weapon sway and some "pain simulation" (pulsing blurred screen etc...) even after player has bandaged himself.

And here some not so high priority changes, but still important to the games atmosphere and realism:

-Ricochets with every caliber! ( Not only with mg:s like they did in Ro1)
-Better audio: Much louder explosion sounds, gun sounds, impact sounds and some proper SONIC CRACKS! :cool:

Sorry for bad english
 
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It's terrible to read when the OP looks like that...

Susi said:
However biggest problem on mg is that recoil which you get while shooting from bipod. No it doesnt climb up, but instead push shooter down, which is weird and makes proper useing really hard, which make most of the mgers to use it as a run'n'gun weapon.
Not really. I rarely see DP-28 used that way. It is more common with MG 34 and recoil while deployed doesn't really answer why is it used to such extent as submachinegun weapon.

1. It has good visual indicator showing you where you should aim.
2. Weapon doesn't weight more than submachinegun.
3. The biggest ammo mags in the game.

Ad 1. It is easier to shoot from the hip with the MG 34 rather than with DP-28 because somehow the barrel points out where the weapon is aiming. It is quite precise. DP-28 lacks such visual indicators and it makes it much harder to use it as run&gun weapon. That's why I often see Soviet machinegunners deployed even if they don't have single shoot mode.

Ad 2. Maybe point number one wouldn't be too much of a problem if not for the fact that machinegunners are able to turn themselves and their weapon as fast as any other weapon in the game.

Ad 3. Now imagine a weapon that has the biggest amount of ammo in the mag and is as good in CQC as MP40 or PPSh-41.

Strictly speaking - German machinegun is better than any other auto or semi-auto weapon in game in CQC because of these three reasons: aim, weight and ammo.

Why I find recoil not to be the reason for people to use MG-34 as run&gun weapon? Because Soviet MGers don't run&gun as often and they can't use single firing mode and yet I saw DP-28 used "properly" more often than not. With single fire mode on German machinegun recoil explanation doesn't fit. It is simply more profitable to use MG as submachinegun because of three reasons prevented above, not recoil.
 
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There is nothing wrong with weapon sway (I really hate using that word).

Inside of 300m you're not going to notice your sights dancing off target from muscle twitches and shoddy breath control. So, unless you don't have the strength (or balance) to hold the weapon up you will be able to hold your sights on target for a good while.

Lack of inertia is what you all should be clamoring about. It takes longer to point a battle rifle compared to a sub machine gun. The distinction between weapon length and weight simply isn't there.

Sighting time/sight alignment time could be looked into as well. I mean, the avatars are carrying the weapons at their hip (which I completely don't understand as anyone worth their two cents is going to carry their weapon at the alert when contact is likely) so it's going to take a fraction of a second longer to bring your sights up to eye as you now have to bring the weapon to your shoulder pocket, point the muzzle, and rest your cheek. If the avatar's had their weapons at shoulder level you would only have to point your muzzle and rest your cheek which fits into the current time slot.

-Paas
 
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