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Close combat

leguizamo2040

Grizzled Veteran
May 2, 2009
169
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I have a problem with ROOST,and that is close combat, it feels so clunky :/

Today I was playing in Danzig, and as a Russian I was in prone position with my m44 waiting for a German to appear, when that happens I shot him, miss (cause of my high ping, at least I think that was the problem) and he simple walks around a wagon he used as cover and kills me, while I was still cocking the rifle.

I know it was my fault for missing the shot, but I can't stop thinking of such clunky moment. I hope for HoS to have more fluid movements, I'm not trying to be a troll or anything, but that is the only thing that worries me about HoS.
 
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I know it was my fault for missing the shot, but I can't stop thinking of such clunky moment. I hope for HoS to have more fluid movements, I'm not trying to be a troll or anything, but that is the only thing that worries me about HoS.

Then you needen't worry, RO:Ost had thouse problems due to engine limitations, specifically, the fact that the UE2.5 engine it was on did not have great animation support, all it could do was play and stop anims, or override them (a feature RO:Ost made little use of, because it doesen't look realistic), and that was it.

HoS is on the UE3 engine, and it supports animation blending, which means that actions (as presented by their animations) can be played, paused, played backwards, and even blend from one animation into a compleately different one seamlessly.


The whole reason RO:Ost feels stiff, is that all your controls are locked into a grid, only one anim can play at a time, and once it has started, you can't do anything else untill it's done, you can't even cancel the action (like reloading or bolting), if you active a command at a bad time, you're stuck with it untill it has compleated itself, and that can get you killed easilly.

Anim blending solves that problem, it's flexible, it allows for things to get cancelled, rewound, and ofcourse mixed with other anims (kinda like using "Crossfade" between two tracks of music, one fades into the next), and it makes for much smoother control.
 
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It's not really your fault for missing the shot. Even at point blank range you need to lead moving targets, as it takes a second for the shot to actually leave the barrel due to the way the server-side ballistic calculation has been set up. Its actually easier to shoot moving targets at a distance than it is to shoot them at point blank in Red Orchestra.

Anim blending solves that problem, it's flexible, it allows for things to get cancelled, rewound, and ofcourse mixed with other anims (kinda like using "Crossfade" between two tracks of music, one fades into the next), and it makes for much smoother control.
While smoother controls may seem like a blessing, the clunkiness of RO's movement is actually very key to RO's core gameplay. If movement becomes easier then you will be able to move up and about and aim to shoot faster than before. If that applies to you, it also applies to everybody else. The gameplay will speed up, and faster gameplay =/= good.
 
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Speaking of CQC, do you guys think it would be viable to have the option to block an enemies knife/bayonet attack or maybe even do a counter move?

I think it would be a nice if players had such an option. Not saying I want the game to turn into a melee fighting game, but it would be a nice addition to the very basic melee combat we've had in FPS games since the dawn of time and would certainly add an element of realism.


Also, first post here, so hello! :troll:

(just had to use that smiley :p )
 
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It's not really your fault for missing the shot. Even at point blank range you need to lead moving targets, as it takes a second for the shot to actually leave the barrel due to the way the server-side ballistic calculation has been set up. Its actually easier to shoot moving targets at a distance than it is to shoot them at point blank in Red Orchestra.

it only takes a second for people with rubbish pings to the server like me :troll:
 
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It's not really your fault for missing the shot. Even at point blank range you need to lead moving targets, as it takes a second for the shot to actually leave the barrel due to the way the server-side ballistic calculation has been set up. Its actually easier to shoot moving targets at a distance than it is to shoot them at point blank in Red Orchestra.

While smoother controls may seem like a blessing, the clunkiness of RO's movement is actually very key to RO's core gameplay. If movement becomes easier then you will be able to move up and about and aim to shoot faster than before. If that applies to you, it also applies to everybody else. The gameplay will speed up, and faster gameplay =/= good.

No you dont have to lead targets, seriously are you playing on 150+ ping servers? Then no wonder, but i've had no issues with firing directly on moving targets when they're close up..

And I assume you weren't serious but it does not take a second for the bullet to hit unless you're enjoying playing on 200 pinged servers across the ponds.
 
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No you dont have to lead targets, seriously are you playing on 150+ ping servers? Then no wonder, but i've had no issues with firing directly on moving targets when they're close up..

And I assume you weren't serious but it does not take a second for the bullet to hit unless you're enjoying playing on 200 pinged servers across the ponds.


The bullet lag issue is well known and trying to tell people it doesn't exist is counter-productive at best.

Imho it is caused by people running servers that simply cannot handle the player numbers, because in other servers with better hardware/smaller player numbers the problem is far less pronounced.

Edit: If you are in a particularly bad server you can test this yourself by simply firing at the ground and observing the delay between firing and the bullet impacting, even when travelling such a short distance!
 
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The bullet lag issue is well known and trying to tell people it doesn't exist is counter-productive at best.

Imho it is caused by people running servers that simply cannot handle the player numbers, because in other servers with better hardware/smaller player numbers the problem is far less pronounced.

Edit: If you are in a particularly bad server you can test this yourself by simply firing at the ground and observing the delay between firing and the bullet impacting, even when travelling such a short distance!

happened on the danzig server. I took a shot at some german hiding in the bakery, another guy runs into the doorway just after I took the shot and takes the bullet. Someone backed me up for why I tk'd after he checked the ping :D
 
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A game can only be as good as how you interact with the game world. If all the game mechanics work great, but how you walk/run or interact with objects in the world feels clunky or covered with molasses, it impedes the flow of the game.

I love Arma II for everything except it's controller scheme and generally convoluted player -> world interaction.

Having more responsive movement and controls, even if its a small tweak (like vaulting over shin high fences) would make HoS a better game. It is true that better controls and movement would speed up getting around, but that alone wont make HoS a run-and-gun game. With one-shot-one-kills happening I don't think there'd be any more Rambos than there already are.
 
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World interaction is no doubt good but movement will always need to be somewhat sluggish and inertia-ridden otherwise the gameplay will not be like Red Orchestra.

People cannot move around gracefully or stop on a dime when trodding around blown-out urban landscapes covered in loose brick and rubble, and RO needs to represent that or else the combat will be too fast paced and stilted.


From what I've seen of the trailers, the third person animations seem to have a lot of inertia to them, so hopefully that will translate equally to the actual player movements.
 
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World interaction is no doubt good but movement will always need to be somewhat sluggish and inertia-ridden otherwise the gameplay will not be like Red Orchestra.

People cannot move around gracefully or stop on a dime when trodding around blown-out urban landscapes covered in loose brick and rubble, and RO needs to represent that or else the combat will be too fast paced and stilted.


From what I've seen of the trailers, the third person animations seem to have a lot of inertia to them, so hopefully that will translate equally to the actual player movements.

HoS still has the inertia (look at Ramm playing, not the bots, the bots haven't had the inertia added yet, they where having problems with it breaking their pathfinding, so that's still beeing worked on last we heard, and was not done yet for the PAX and Igromir vids, at that time it was only in place for human players), and you are still confined to what a human could do, none of that looks to have changed in the slightest, and the guns are still as deadly (if not more so, recoil tweaks for the win).

What is changing, is that you can do realistic things, like cancel a reload and try to use a melee attack instead if you need to, and that you can start sprinting before the "lower gun to hip" anim is done playing, so like a real person, you could try to run for your life if a grenade lands next to you, and automatically put down the gun as you start doing so, instead of standing there like a statue patiently waiting to lower your gun first for some arbitrary and unrealistic reason.

It's fine details, and it wont drastically change how the game is played, what made RO's gameplay was the combination of deadly and accurate guns, and realistic player movement, and that will still be the order of the day in HoS, it will just come without the side order of frustration that comes with fighting stiff controls.

Will it change things slighty? I sure hope so! Because Ost, whilst damned good, was not perfect, and i hope HoS will up the ante.


EDIT: To add to the above, a lot of what we're seeing gun and movement wise in HoS, really reminds me of how things where in the mod days (you know, aside from the brand new stuff), i don't know if you where playing RO back then, not everyone here did, but some important differences was that SMG's had less recoil, some of the anims could be overwritten in earlier builds (it looked terrible, but played much nicer), and there wasen't as big a need to lie prone or rest guns on stuff just to reasonably control the weapons.

And none of that made the mod any less tactical, none of it caused the problems you fear it might, it actually worked really well, and a lot of us never did like some of the changes that made it into Ost, the mod was better in some ways, Ost better in others, and i can't help feeling that HoS looks like the best of them both, with some new stuff tossed in for good measure.
 
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I don't see the issue here. You shot, missed, and where killed when bolting your gun. I don't see how that is "clunky".

I fail to see an issue with the game, but only with your ping, skill, and luck.


If by "non-clunky" you mean that you're able to quickly bunny hop up to dodge enemy fire while you are bolting, then I really hope RO2 is not like that.
 
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I don't see the issue here. You shot, missed, and where killed when bolting your gun. I don't see how that is "clunky".

I fail to see an issue with the game, but only with your ping, skill, and luck.


If by "non-clunky" you mean that you're able to quickly bunny hop up to dodge enemy fire while you are bolting, then I really hope RO2 is not like that.
I think the point some here are trying to make is that the player should be able to stop mid reload and perform another action, without having to wait for the reload animation to end.
 
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