This thread again? MGs are fine, if you can't play it properly just switch to another class.
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Actually, the sound of a machine gun being fired in a soldier's general direction was/is scare enough. There are endless accounts of large units being held up by a single MG position (or sniper position). My father's unit in Vietnam (101 AB 1969/70) wiped put an entire hill with "suppressive" artillery fire when confronted by a single MG position rather than storming it Rambo style. Suppression fire by it's very nature is aimed in the general area where enemy forces are thought to be or may be, rather than aimed at individuals. In a battlefield like Stalingrad, there wouldn't be a scene like we see in RO:OST of men in ones and twos constantly charging towards the enemy or sniping from cover in the midst of bullets peppering the ground around them. Things like unit cohesion and suppression fire reign. RO still does a better job than most games at forcing slightly more believable tactics onto players, but real combat is a far, far slower and ponderous affair. Un-aimed vs. aimed fire is a scale where un-aimed is vastly more prevalent.
It's no use quoting real life in this matter, because a game can never get the real psychological effects of suppressive fire transmitted to the player by just relying on him to react to them without any real in-game effects, because he is never really in any real danger, i.e. he can just respawn if he gets hit. This is why we need to have something "artificial" in the game, to simulate this real life effect of fearing for your life once the bullets start zipping by you. IMO, you cannot rely on people to just "role-play" the suppression effect, you need to have some in-game effect to simulate real life suppression and to that end combat better (as funny as that sounds).
Also, I don't think people want to get stronger suppression effect by just firing the MG in the air, somewhere in the general direction of enemies. Instead they want to get a more potent suppression effect in the game when bullets are flying really close by to enemies. At least I do. As it is now, the game effect is quite minor and you recover from it very fast. This makes MG suppressive fire nearly useless, unfortunately. The in-game effect, which simulates real life suppression, needs to be more severe and longer lasting. (IMHO, of course.)
It's true. I'm quite good with MGs but even I find them rather useless in their intended role. When every soldier with a rifle or even SMG (or the uber-doom-Mkb42) has eagle vision and is able to snipe you out instantly on the battlefield, that extra second it takes to deploy is a death sentence. Most of the time I'm only successful when I run around with them retardedly like Rambo. Unfortunately, RO2 actually seems to encourage this behavior, because it works quite well!Im starting to wonder the use of machineguns in RO2.
Rarely I see people occupy this class and when they do, they get picked off quite easy by guys using rifles thanks to the new zoom mode.
Ofcourse sometimes people are quite succesfull at using the machinegun from points where they are hard to spot, ( let's say a building with a lot of windows ) but these situations are not always there because the game mainly revolves around close quarter combat.
Another aspect of the game im questioning is the use of machineguns to suppress and the whole idea of suppression.
Is anyone actually really using this instead of aiming for the kill?
Share your thoughts with me
Location, location, location!
But this is exactly the point!This really.
It is unfortunate you can't play MG like it's supposed to due to it being suicide, but you can still do very well if you learn the correct spots.
Another aspect of the game im questioning is the use of machineguns to suppress and the whole idea of suppression.
Is anyone actually really using this instead of aiming for the kill?
I use the MG in sniper fashion.
Fire from as far back inside a room as possible. Only try to cover a narrow area, don't try covering the entire battlefield. Crawl a lot. The only thing I dont really do is change positions.
I've also found working in a group of 4+ teammates with the MG is good. Your teammates running around distracts the enemy, and you lay cover fire for them.
Also, don't spray randomly. You give away your position doing that.
Don't bother trying to use it as a real MG, it just doesn't work
Avoid CAMPING mg on a server with kill cam.
I have been exlusively playing MG since beta(about 50 hours combined now, I also played exclusively MG in Ostfront too), and the first 10-15 hours were totally painful. Now I'm getting better because I'm finding rifleman proof positions every day. What I've started as a simple reply turned to a giant MG'ing post, so buckle your belts! Here we go:
MG's suffer a lot from super accurate rifleman. %90 of the time you're dead if a rifleman sees you. You cannot outgun them, it only takes an average rifleman 0.5-1 seconds to pop-up and blow your head off. So, you have an area denial weapon you can't use in open areas. As soon as you're noticed you WILL die. It's so easy to get rid of MG's.
This forces you to play stealthily and refrain from firing blindly, only fire short bursts for the kill and displace quickly if you've killed a lot of guys(they'll come for you), you've been heard or your position doesn't allow to stay long(%99 of the time doesn't).
This also makes suppression totally unnecessary, because the game punishes you for revealing yourself and firing long bursts is suicide. During all my playhours, I haven't played MG with suppression in my mind, because it's not as effective as I thought it would be.
Now, this sounds really bad for the MG's right? No. IF you can find a position that has it's flanks covered(the areas you cannot see), and the area you're looking at doesn't have many possible cover(windows, trenches, vegetation and other clutter), and you're covering an area that the other team has to pass to get to the objective, MG's absolutely destroy the other team. The problems is finding these spots and brings me to another point, the maps.
It seems to me that the maps are not designed with MG's in mind. It's really hard to find suitable MG positions so that you'll be a challenge to the other team(in Ostfront I loved when the other team pissed off and teamed up just to get me out of my position) and deny access to an important point I haven't seen a single point where the mapper intended it as a legitimate MG position and I had to painfully search every map for made-up positions. Now some of you may think "Well, there are static MG positions, lots of windows and some trenches in every map!". Then I'll welcome you to the next section(bonus):
Where to take cover in RO2? Firstly let me say, STAY AWAY FROM WINDOWS. Only deploy on windows if you have caught 2-3 people and you are sure you'll get them and displace quickly. Windows are not good positions because while they provide good general sight of the battlefield, they also provide a good sight of you. Let me explain.
Most windows in RO2 look at the battlefield or other windows directly and will provide with you lots of target opportunities, but there's a golden rule of MG to remember; if you want to stay in a MG position(and do well), you HAVE TO have complete control over the area you're covering. Nothing moves without you noticing, nothing pops-up without you noticing. You HAVE TO see every pixel moving so that you can react in time. If you cannot do this in a position, it's a bad position and you'll most likely get killed. This forces you to find positions with limited view, but positions that will restrict enemy from entering an area.
I believe RO2 mappers didn't understand this and usually the obvious MG positions are more suited for regular infantry. Static MG positions are death traps(hence they are always empty), windows are death traps, trenches are death traps. The good positions I've found are prone positions near big objects(to restrict visibility and protect flanks).
TL;DR : The problem with MG usefullness is not the MG's themselves, but the way the maps are created and of course super effective rifleman.
PS: I wish TWI let more people in their tester team(alpha, beta) with years of experience in classes rather than people who frequent their IRC a lot and friends with their staff. Lots of these problems in the game right now could be prevented with sufficient feedback during development.
PS: I can expand and turn this into a full fledged RO2 MG guide if there's interest.
I mostly play with the bolt but the last few games I have been trying the DP machine-gun and have been doing ok with it. I mostly use it for interdiction though, getting in a protected spot then shooting people where they have to or are likely to cross an open area.
I usually dont get forward enough to merit changing locations
See, I operate almost exclusively behind enemy lines, harassing them from the flanks and thinning their numbers before they reach the front.
Hitting them while they're least expecting it and all that rot.
If you can get around their flank you can have a field day in a protected position shooting the enemy in the back and sides as they run past.
Only down side is nobody gives you ammo if you're out on your own.