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MP7+Medic Perk

As for your question 'Why should the medic be so good at killing stuff?', to make room and be able to do his job which is saving the butts of your teammates with only very little interruption.

The medic isn't supposed to "save" teammates by killing all the zeds that threaten them. It's the other way around: The medic keeps the damage dealers alive by healing, the damage dealers in turn keep the medic safe by killing all the zeds that threaten them.

What he gets to survive zed ambushes is his improved armor and bloat resistance.

Anyway, if the mp7m is made considerably more effective, it will certainly come with a huge cost in terms of carry weight, or some other drawback.

Currently the medic has a unique role in a team, and I'd like to see him keep this flavor. I don't want him to become just another damage dealer, a ranged tough guy. If his killing ability is buffed past a certain point, then to keep medics balanced they would have to lose their powerful healing abilities or at least see them reduced. Like the saying goes, "You can't have it all."

And I definitely do not think medics are "weak" at all as it is currently, in the hands of a good player they are highly effective at maintaining an entire team's firepower throughout a game. Anything more than increasing the number of clips the medic carries for the mp7m is just too much in my opinion.

Don't take this the wrong way, but if you want to kill stuff, simply let someone else play the medic, and go sniper, commando, etc... there are tons of perks focused on killing.
 
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Once you realize that the purpose of the medic class is to keep a team alive, then you also realize that it not only has an effective class weapon, it has a superior class weapon.

The primary reason it "sucks so bad" is because it was designed to be like this, to ensure the medic would not be as good as other classes at killing.



Because TWI wanted the medic to have a teamwork role.

Also, he's already 4x as good at healing, not even considering that he can heal at range. To boot, his armor is amazingly more effective, not to mention bloat resistance and movement speed increase to chase wounded players around. (Not to help him kill, oh no. The reason the mp7m slows you so much is because you no longer need your speed increase to chase someone to heal at melee range.)

If he were good at killing, too, every game would be a bunch of unstoppable medic tanks with mega armor and health pouring out of their ears, steamrolling everything with mp7ms, xbows and m32s.
That may be all true but I fail to see how a bit of a faster reload speed, an a tad larger clip or the ability to hit propperly with a gun that does almost no damage anyway would turn the medic into more of an an unstoppable tank that steamrolls everything than he is now. Which he isn't.
Care to explain?
 
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So
Why does this gun have to suck so bad as a weapon? (It does, don't deny it)
Why should the medic not have (an) effective class weapon(s)?
(effective as in acceptable reload times and good precision, not neccesarily much damage)

Once you realize that the purpose of the medic class is to keep a team alive, then you also realize that it not only has an effective class weapon, it has a superior class weapon.

The primary reason it "sucks so bad" is because it was designed to be like this, to ensure the medic would not be as good as other classes at killing.

Boiling it down,
You asked 'Why should the medic be so good (speak: effective) at killing stuff?'
Now I ask 'Why should he not be? What would be so wrong with it?'

Because TWI wanted the medic to have a teamwork role.

Also, he's already 4x as good at healing, not even considering that he can heal at range. To boot, his armor is amazingly more effective, not to mention bloat resistance and movement speed increase to chase wounded players around. (Not to help him kill, oh no. The reason the mp7m slows you so much is because you no longer need your speed increase to chase someone to heal at melee range.)

If he were good at killing, too, every game would be a bunch of unstoppable medic tanks with mega armor and health pouring out of their ears, steamrolling everything with mp7ms, xbows and m32s.
 
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Also, he's already 4x as good at healing, not even considering that he can heal at range. To boot, his armor is amazingly more effective, not to mention bloat resistance and movement speed increase to chase wounded players around. (Not to help him kill, oh no. The reason the mp7m slows you so much is because you no longer need your speed increase to chase someone to heal at melee range.)

If he were good at killing, too, every game would be a bunch of unstoppable medic tanks with mega armor and health pouring out of their ears, steamrolling everything with mp7ms, xbows and m32s.
That may be all true but I fail to see how a bit of a faster reload speed, an a tad larger clip or the ability to hit propperly with a gun that does almost no damage anyway would turn the medic into more of an an unstoppable tank that steamrolls everything than he is now. Which he isn't.

Maybe I just don't see things like you do them so, let's say the medic takes 1 second to reload his peashooter. Nothing more, just that.
How exactly would that break the perk?
I can't imagine that would make him as good at killing as for example the commando with his bullpup.
 
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It's simply not needed, with it's insane ROF and perfect reticle, the mp7m is already more than effective at popping smaller zed's heads left and right.
And here we go again.
Do you really want the discussion to run in circles by saying that while there are pages describing how it is NOT 'more than effective' at popping trash zeds heads -especially crawlers- and by having me explain -again- why I think a faster reload or somesuch IS needed?
(No, NOT for damage output)
Really?
Well too bad, I don't want to.

This is becoming too laborious for me.
I think I answered your question also including the complete string of argumentations that this discussion would lead to.
Just read my previous posts.

Spoiler:
A: Medic gun should reload faster because...
B: MEDIC IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A DAMAGE DEALER (Face it: That is your ONLY argument all along)
A: But I'm not talking about raising the damage, just making it a bit more convenient, because right now...
B: MEDIC IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A DAMAGE DEALER
A: But it's really hard to even kill crawlers on suicidal because most of your shots...
B: MEDIC IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A DAMAGE DEALER
A: The reload animation is what keeps you from...
B: MEDIC IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A DAMAGE DEALER
A: Why can't he be?
B: BECAUSE MEDIC IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A DAMAGE DEALER
A: Well I don't think If it reloaded faster, it would be the next SCAR or something.
B: NO THIS IS NOT NEEDED, MEDIC IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A DAMAGE DEALER

Rinse and repeat.
Awesome.

Anyway, I'm outta here again.
Have fun.
 
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Myself and those of my friends who like to play medic find the mp7m more than adequate to do it's job. I might just in the future answer with this,

Medic.

On a related note, the mp7m has made my rounds playing as medic much more enjoyable. I have experienced absolutely no increased difficulty from having this excellent tool added to my arsenal. In fact, the medic's game has become far easier. Assuming you are a team player, of course, and have a competent team, and focus on keeping them alive, and... oh, I guess I need my own smartass "summary," don't I? Here we go.

A Learn to aim
B Learn to control fire
C Learn to conserve ammo
D Learn to time reloads
E Learn to headbox
F Learn to find good team
G Learn to communicate w/ team
H Learn to use the right tool for the job
I Learn to use the right perk for the job

Disagreeing, or asking something you can't answer, is not trolling. Btw, as far as trolling goes, you two have been more insulting than anyone here. Well, mostly Mr Shoe. Btw, at least I'm bumping your thread. People can and will make up their minds for themselves. ;)
 
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The primary reason it "sucks so bad" is because it was designed to be like this, to ensure the medic would not be as good as other classes at killing.



Because TWI wanted the medic to have a teamwork role.

Also, he's already 4x as good at healing, not even considering that he can heal at range. To boot, his armor is amazingly more effective, not to mention bloat resistance and movement speed increase to chase wounded players around. (Not to help him kill, oh no. The reason the mp7m slows you so much is because you no longer need your speed increase to chase someone to heal at melee range.)

If he were good at killing, too, every game would be a bunch of unstoppable medic tanks with mega armor and health pouring out of their ears, steamrolling everything with mp7ms, xbows and m32s.

We don't want to be good at killing things but we would like to kill oh maybe a few things and you can't make money by healing people so.

Ok that was the stupidest argument ever you just stated what the medics recieve for there perk I can state what supports get for there perks that does absolutly no good.

Once again we don't want a ****n uber plasma cannon just something that can effectively kill lower end zeds/keep lower end zeds off our teammates so they don't have get raped by whatever big zed is attacking them.

9_6 is right your only argument (Doc) is Medics aren't supposed to be damage dealers.
 
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People like DocDave sicken me. They troll suggestion threads for fun.

What kind of person literally tries to trounce suggestions who ISN'T a developer?

The end of his argument really is that medic is not a damage dealer. Well, if you find playing medic fun at all, kudos to you.

The other 90% of players I've run into don't.

Want some better proof of this? Almost every player I've asked has either leveled most of, if not all of their medic perk by using the 2 player clot method. If that isn't evidence enough of how ****ty it is to play and try to do anything with the medic, then I don't know what is. Sad that you think otherwise, it only proves that you really don't play much of this game.
 
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People like DocDave [...] troll suggestion threads for fun.

You're the first one to resort to trolling when someone posts an opinion you don't agree with. Good luck convincing anyone with that attitude. I generally just respond in kind.

The end of his argument really is that medic is not a damage dealer. Well, if you find playing medic fun at all, kudos to you.

If it's that important to you that the medic be a damage dealer, you're playing the wrong perk or the wrong game, one of the two. I have fun playing the medic and already kill my share of scrakes and FPs while I am at it. My friends who play the medic enjoy it as well. If you look at some other threads about the med gun *cough* you will also find plenty of people commenting "the med gun is fine," and it's not in people's nature to turn down things they even might want.

If you don't find keeping a team alive fun enough, pick another perk.

Almost every player I've asked has either leveled most of, if not all of their medic perk by using the 2 player clot method.

That just shows you and your friends like to grind more than they value playing as a team. I haven't done this. As far as I know, my friends who play medic haven't either. I'm slowly getting the impression that you only play solo, or you're that medic on pubs who never heals anyone else.

It only proves that you really don't play much of this game.

And more trolling, while accusing me of trolling... ironic.

The fact that I have one argument at the moment does nothing to diminish the validity of it. The purpose of medics is keeping a team alive. Increasing medic damage, keeping in mind that every class will be balanced out in the long run, will have an effect in the end, wether big or small. It will only result in making the medic a step closer to being just another damage dealer, with less and less healing power, to the point that it will become insufficient to support their team properly. A step in the wrong direction. Teamwork should be encouraged, not discouraged.

The medic fills a special niche in the team, one not filled by any other class. The perspective I have is not from just the medic's point of view, but from the point of view that KF's class diversity is one of the key factors that makes it such a good game. I want the medic to remain special, and I want KF to remain a fun and balanced game with unique perks that offer interesting tradeoffs.

My argument is made because the pros and cons of the medic perk adds uniqueness to this class, and it in turn is an important part of what makes KF good. Not every perk should be good for combat. And only one perk should be able to heal like a mofo. Just like amongst damage perks, some are good at one thing but poor at another. These advantages and drawbacks are one of the shining gems in KF's crown. Without this, it would just be "counter-strike vs zombies."

The mp7m is not a mandatory weapon, if you do not like it, do not use it. It's only 3 blocks, so anyone should be able buy something with which they can hit things. If your group does not have the teamwork to help keep a medic safe, find another group or another difficulty setting. Or go commando while you're at it. The medic does not need to be developed whatsoever in a direction that will leave it just another generic rambo with no special role to fill. It is more than adequate in filling the role it was obviously meant for. In fact it was more than adequate before the mp7m, and is only much better at it now.
 
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*giant sigh* okay what's going on here now.
Guess I'll refrain from the *I'll leave forever* sillyness since I always come back anyway.
Damn forums.

The end of his argument really is that medic is not a damage dealer. Well, if you find playing medic fun at all, kudos to you.

The other 90% of players I've run into don't.
I like playing medic :C
Most flexible class imo.

I'm always medic if the team seems to need it.
And there's always need if there is none yet.
I have lv6 and I've never grinded it cause I simply think, no one should selfheal and play by that rule, also when not being a medic.

The fact that I have one argument at the moment does nothing to diminish the validity of it.
...
The medic does not need to be developed whatsoever in a direction that will leave it just another generic rambo with no special role to fill.
Stop taking it 10 steps beyond.
Exaggerating to make the other argument look stupid isn't how argumenting works.
You should and will never be a generic rambo with the mp7 that reloads a bit faster (or some other minor tweak except more damage) and that's all we... I talk about.
Always bringing up the same argument to people who agree with it and don't say anything against it diminishes the validity of it quite a bit in my book.

I also like the concept of the medic having more 'useful gadgets' than actual weapons but if it's bad at shooting bloody spiders, why does it even shoot?
And why does the medic get an enlarged clip with the mp7 then?
Wouldn't that, by your logic, be one of those steps that'll turn him into yet another rambo?
 
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And why does the medic get an enlarged clip with the mp7 then?
Wouldn't that, by your logic, be one of those steps that'll turn him into yet another rambo?

The question is simply at what point to stop. He fills his role perfectly well right now, and achieving balance is often more delicate than one might think. A small change can have large effects. But consider:

I'm always medic if the team seems to need it.
And there's always need if there is none yet.

(Emphasis added.) That second sentence is an indicator that the medic perk is working as intended. As said, he fills his role perfectly well. In fact, having a medic on a team is arguably much more important than having one of any other particular perk on the team. Thus I would argue his role on the team already weighs more heavily than any other single perk.

Stop taking it 10 steps beyond.
Exaggerating to make the other argument look stupid isn't how argumenting works.

I'm not exaggerating, I'm extrapolating. What people don't get when I say the medic is not a damage dealer, and I'm probably not explaining myself well enough, is that I'm not saying any single one of these changes is necessarily going to cause a big problem. Would the change be noticable if his damage is upped a small bit? Probably not. However,

What I'm saying is that he already fills his team role very well right now, and this is in fact the ultimate goal. Steps towards enabling him to become a better damage dealer would eventually trigger balance changes that I guarantee you will hurt gameplay and diminish the value of teamwork. If you just want counter-strike with zombies, this does not matter, of course.

Hence most of the suggestions here would contribute, however minutely, to a trend that would prove detrimental to the game overall and the medic as a unique perk in specific. Just because it's a small unnecessary step in the wrong direction doesn't mean that makes it acceptable or a good idea.

In short, if it's not broke, don't hit it with a hammer, because even if it doesn't break by being hit once, at some point it will.

PS FOR THE LOVE OF FREAKING CHRIST JUST LEARN HOW TO PURCHASE A WEAPON BESIDES THE MP7M AT THE TRADER ALREADY, I WILL MAKE YOU A FRKIN YOUTUBE TUTORIAL IF YOU CANNOT COMPREHEND IT!!!OMGWTFBBQASDF

Ok, /rant, sorry about that. :rolleyes:
 
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Oh, long before I commented at all, the original poster already graced the readers with gems of immensely convincing genius such as,

Spoiler!

I'd list his amusingly "insightful" comments after my first post, too, but I'm a busy man and have other things to do.
 
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I really don't think it needs a damage boost nearly as much as it needs a recoil reduction, if it's going to be modified at all. It recoils way too damn much for an SMG. The AK47 handles better.

I wouldn't say it's a high priority change, but I'd really love to see the gun given much less recoil, even with a damage reduction per bullet. It just sucks having a weapon that fires 2 or 3 rounds before you even realise you held down the button, and sprays so bad only the first one hit anyway. Granted, I need more practice with it, though.
 
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End of story. It doesn't need damage, what it needs to act like is an actual backup weapon. What's the point of using a gun that only works point blank and is hindered in both of it's ranged uses. Just sit back with your medigun and yell for your teammate to come to you.

Same thing as trying to waste all those darts, and it works just as well. Remove the MP7 gun and you wouldn't hear much if any complaints at all.

Oh, long before I commented at all, the original poster already graced the readers with gems of immensely convincing genius such as,

Spoiler!


I'd list his amusingly "insightful" comments after my first post, too, but I'm a busy man and have other things to do.
Oh no, he knows how to quote me!

I can't wait to see you back in this thread posting another three or four paragraphs on how your opinion is right and has oh so many facets to it. Congratulations on realizing the OP insults people who make no sense and no valid points and come into his thread touting this and that as if it was gospel.
 
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