Lack of RKKA realism units

[lyosha]

Oh look its this thread.
"LOL the soviet union wasn't socialist at all because it failed and our teachers said so!"
We all know this thread is going to be locked very soon but ill throw my say in.

The Soviet Union took a backwards tsarist state from a poverty ridden poo-hole to a contender for world power. You tell me any other country, that was implemented any other system that has advanced so much, so fast. Myths of it being "state communist/state capitalist" are western propaganda. As they are doing now with china stating it is "communist by name only" whereas the levels of literacy, healthcare and employment in such countries far out-match those in the west by comparison of population.
Agreed the Soviet Union wasn't the shining angel that socialism wished for, it was rushed. It was a rushed version of socialism as Lenin himself admitted to. They tried letting the bourgeois have their stage in the steps to socialism but it was taking too long so they bodged it.
Take into account after the war Western europe had the marshal plan to rebuild their destroyed countries (supplied by the UNTOUCHED American Industry. In comparison the Soviet Union, by far the country who suffered most in the War had to cope on its own. A country whos industry and agriculture had largely been destroyed, its city centres reduced to rubble. It astounds me how the Soviet Union managed to last as long as it did and still take part in the arms race, even winning the space race most of the time!

tl;dr RUSSIA STRONG

[20.PzGr.Fleck]

That's uhm... nice :P

Though I never said it wasn't socialist (which it was), I said it wasn't communist. There has never been, nor will there ever be, an actual communist country on the planet xD

Also the thread won't get closed unless it devolves into a flame war.

Actually now that I think about it, the lack of common decision making kind of inhibits it from being socialist either. I think we're probably best off just saying it was Stalinist and leaving it at that.

[RedGuardist]

This might be pretty much useless discussion, but anyways. And by the way, in my opinion this is not a political discussion in that sense, so no reason to lock this.

Originally Posted by lyosha

Oh look its this thread.
"LOL the soviet union wasn't socialist at all because it failed and our teachers said so!"

Well, I guess it was "sort of socialistic" system in that sense, that the means of production were owned by the state. But in the end it was just state capitalism, since the workers hardly gained anything from the system. The workers were not free from exploitation, which is the most important goal of socialism. They were just not exploited by the bourgeois, but by the state. And no, I did not need any teachers to say that. I can read by myself.

Originally Posted by lyosha

The Soviet Union took a backwards tsarist state from a poverty ridden poo-hole to a contender for world power. You tell me any other country, that was implemented any other system that has advanced so much, so fast.

That´s true. The tsarist regime was rotten to the bone and deserved to be destroyed. And the industrialisation of the Soviet Union etc. was an enormous achievement. But on the other hand it was done by sacrificing millions lives in slave labor etc. The prize was enormous and inhuman, which ofcourse was not too strange for the Soviet regime at all.

Originally Posted by lyosha

Myths of it being "state communist/state capitalist" are western propaganda.

It´s not a myth. Ofourse it was state capitalist-system and in its purest form. The people were not free and they gained pretty much nothing, but were exploited by the state, and if someone, then the newly formed upper class - the party elite - collected the profit. Doesn`t sound like socialism to me.

Originally Posted by lyosha

As they are doing now with china stating it is "communist by name only" whereas the levels of literacy, healthcare and employment in such countries far out-match those in the west by comparison of population.

Well, China is absolutely "communist by name only". It has allways been an empire, no matter what colour has the emperor been. People has allways been pushed to the bottom, if there´s been a need for that and there often has been. And actually nowadays it´s more like a capitalist dictature with some communistic ornamentation, than anything else. Workers are not allowed to form unions, go to strike or in any way to fight for their rights, while some people are making huge profits. And if you are trying to say, that for example China has a good health care, well only has if you have money. For the ordinary and the poor it has nothing to offer. That´s how it goes nowadays. But ofcourse that´s not that far from the system in the US, if want to put it in that way.

Originally Posted by lyosha

tl;dr RUSSIA STRONG

Well, I don´t know, what this means, but todays Russia is an extreme capitalist semi-dictature. Nothing too great in it really. But that´s just the state. I find Russian people to be very lovely and the country itself very charming and interesting.

[20.PzGr.Fleck]

Well, my only sources are my "western propaganda" like the Economist, Spiegel and NYT but weren't the Russian motorized divisions which invaded Georgia hitting the bases first specifically to look for shoes?

[Hans_klempner]

Originally Posted by Hannula

I dont understand this, there is loads and loads of axis realism units, but not a single one on the Soviet side? What is this? Is antifascism out of fashion? The picture is here to show you that we will overcome. You cant stop us.
No pasarán.

Hahaha!



Sry mate i tried and tried to come up with something constructive to post, but could not!

[I Faw Down]

Wow, I'm glad I steered clear of this thread for the longest time. I hope I can keep doing so...

[Paint360]

My two cents on the opinion of why there are more units of one side than the other is actually pretty simple and common sense:

Why is there more German/American units in the realism community?

It is so easy to find information, manuals and more from German and american printing agencies about WW2 tactics, ranks, medals exct... Rather than the RKKA and other forms of armies.

To be completely honest, gonna go on a huge wim here. I would like to see a form of realism regulation organization be formed to regulated units being formed. Along with helping them get off the feet and assign recruits to their units. This way there wouldn't be such a ****ing in-balance in forces (Now the hardcore realism nerds are going to say well thats what it was like irl. Yes it was, but to the extent of what is is now it is not irl.) Think of it as governments organizing tactics manuals, SOP's, Recruitment and Sustainment divisions exct....

[20.PzGr.Fleck]

Well, the reason there's an imbalance is because people prefer the Germans. If you start forcing people to be in (let's face it) clans they don't like then they won't join anything at all. Or they'll just form their own anyway.

[TodSky]

Paint,

Interesting idea indeed, however I don't think this would ever work. Everyone wants to be king of their own castle, most of the hardcore realism players and unit leaders (myself included) are far too egotistical to take orders from central body. Especially seeing as we do perfectly fine without one anyway.

Ernst Hoffmann

[Paint360]

Fleck I would strongly disagree with that statement. Considering when I played realism outside of RO. The dominating units were always Allied, there would only be one or two axis units active at one time alone. It is very different than RO I am finding.

[Merin Redplate]

Originally Posted by Paint360

Fleck I would strongly disagree with that statement. Considering when I played realism outside of RO. The dominating units were always Allied, there would only be one or two axis units active at one time alone. It is very different than RO I am finding.

Like in DoD:S, the majority of realism units were Aliied (American in particular), whereas, there were only a couple Axis units.

[Otto Fuhrmann]

I think that's mainly because Day of Defeat has a much larger US player base, And all of those guy's want to be Para's or Marine's not Wehrmacht..

[I Faw Down]

With games like DoD:S, it could quite possibly be that, since it is more casual, less people (At least compared to the TWI Forums, not saying there aren't any) will be history buffs, and when people would form their opinions on each side, which would be influenced by movies/video games/etc, would make them think that Wehrmacht would be synonymous with the Nazi party or the SS. Would you rather be part of a group that represents the heroes that saved (Well, Western, but that's a whole other controversy that doesn't need to be argued here) Europe and other places around the world from oppression, or represent the evil the heroes were fighting?

[Otto Fuhrmann]

But I thought we are the goodies?

[20.PzGr.Fleck]

Well you have to consider that in DoD:S they're choosing between the Americans and the Germans, not the Germans and the Soviets

[lyosha]

When the choice is between "Kommies" and "Natsees" a good American will instead create a mod that includes The US of A fighting off both oppressive regimes for "Democracy".

[DiedTrying]

In my opinion

People go German because they have been labeled super soldiers for their "exploits" (quite literally). We always hear how they were the best trained, best weaponized, most cutting edge fighting force in the war.

People avoid Soviet clans because they are portrayed in movies as careless even stupid untrained dirt eaters.

Propaganda really.

I would join a USSR clan just to try to fix the issue, if I were to actual join any clan at all. However I also appreciate the foreign "german" divisions who were essentially mercenaries. (I was in the 5th SS clan in ostfront, ie the Viking division from Norway/Sweden, of which nationality I'm descendant) Perhaps I would join a Finnish realism clan, would be interesting.

[Alvin Fuchs]

Personally I am drawn to Germany because, well, they lost. The millions of soldiers each Allied country lost should not be forgotten, nor should the millions of Germany's lost soldiers.

[Actin]

Maybe a really stupid question (although probably someone a few posts below will say 'there are no stupid questions')
But how do these units work?

I like the idea of realism units (I know what it stands for; I think..) and I hate the small-scale clan wars (5 vs 5 c'mon, it's a war not SAS), so I am interested.
But do the realism units follow a clan ladder in which every saturday one german team will fight one russian (correction; soviet) team?

FYI; I would certainly join a soviet Realism unit when I decide to join one.
Soviets were cool and hardened (they can't even retreat) and I think the desperate situation was 'interesting'. Also I always tend to join the smaller team, long-live auto-assign!

[Merin Redplate]

It depends. You follow a chain of command, with ranks and such. Concerning when you "realism" against other units changes from unit to unit.