KF 1016 Balance Patch Wave 7

[scary ghost]

Originally Posted by Salad Snake

The hell's the point of that then....if Xbow were 8 blocks, you could carry a bullpup or something...

The only odd combination I can think of is xbow + 4 weight weapon (mac10/m79/HC) + pipe bombs. No weapon is 2 slots so you can't add anything else to katana and mp7m and only SCAR and axe are 5 slots.

@Yoshiro
The change log is still incomplete. I mentioned the lack of spawn armor being only present in suicidal and H.o.E in a previous post. Another difference between hard/normal/beginner and H.o.E/suicidal is the medic's run speed. He has the reduced speed in the latter 2 difficulties and moves with pre-beta speed in the first 3.

[Aze]

Just a question to you hardcore pros:

Would a weight of 8 for the Xbow (allowing a Xbow+LAR combo) be too powerful in your opinions? Right now, reducing it to 9 doesn't really serve much of a purpose, other than allowing Xbow + a 4-weight weapon (HC, M79, Mac10, Dual 9mm) + Pipebomb/Machete, or Xbow + Axe/Scar. Which is kinda odd...

If it weighed 8, it would be a choice of either Xbow or M14, but with the same possible sidearms along with either of them.

[Hemi]

Better...much better. I like these changes! Suicidal and HoE will please the hardcore crowd, and the other 3 difficulties will be accessible for us normal human beeings, lol ;-)

Sometimes when I read these posts I think you guys really want to harden this game so much its ridiculous. Its all about balance for all players out there, which I learned making the Brute. In the end the hardcore crowd will have its beef with Suicidal and HoE and letting us normal folk enjoy a casual game of KF.

btw...Adding the Brute is looking plausible more and more with these changes hehe ;-) Me like it!

[SMIFF]

Originally Posted by Aze

Would a weight of 8 for the Xbow (allowing a Xbow+LAR combo) be too powerful in your opinions?

Yes. The LAR is an absolute monster on it's own, let alone coupled with the Crossbow.

[HaTeMe]

Seems decent to me, altho requires testing.

[TwinPeaks]

i think that SS should have to choose between the M14 ( medium short range) and the Cross Bow( Long medium range)

make the SS like the Zerker (patch 1016)

[outofrealman]

Originally Posted by SMIFF

Yes. The LAR is an absolute monster on it's own, let alone coupled with the Crossbow.

Only problem is xbow now serve NO PURPOSE. It do nothing better than the M14 + LAR combo. Just because we clearly over-nerf xbow.

[Freshmeat]

Originally Posted by outofrealman

Only problem is xbow now serve NO PURPOSE. It do nothing better than the M14 + LAR combo. Just because we clearly over-nerf xbow.

In suicidal+ maybe not, but it is still going to be the anti-FP weapon of choice on the lower difficulties. There, the ss perk bonus allowing a one-shot kill makes a crucial difference.

Ironically, there is on one hand a lot of protests about hard and below being to easy, but on the other hand a lot of talk about how the xbow is nerfed to uselessness.

Further, the scope do make long range sniping quite a lot easier for me. When soloing zerker, I use the xbow to snipe sirens, husks and bloats before they come close, as well as anti-fp duty. The new availability of a pipebomb to add to the armory will probably help a lot as well.

I think a lot of the 'Hard' players will gravitate towards suicidal, and that they will gravitate towards hard earlier than before.

I come from a casual 1015-playing clan myself, and while our perks are typically 5 or 6 we still play a lot on hard because we play the game as 'Army of Darkness' instead of 'Night of the Living Dead'. Most beta testers are here for a real challenge, but a lot of us just want to bash some heads. This is not to say that we want to do so without challenge what so ever, but since we are pretty easygoing about it, we often manage to get our heinies kicked around wave 8 or so on hard. It makes a fun difficulty to us, because we might not win, but we often do. When we want a gutwrenching, fully focused game, with clammy hands clenching the mouse and screams of fright and agony in the comms, we play suicidal. We rarely play normal, because it is a guaranteed succes.

The one or two-shotting of FP's ensure the casualness of the game, because if we keep a single sniper on guard, we can take down the rest as we please. This means we dont have to focus on the perk we do best, we can chatter about other things while playing, and have a great evening. It means that if we only are two or three players that want to play, our server can be filled with clueless idiots, and we still pull through most of the time (as long as I dont have to be the sniper).

I think TWI made an important step in keeping the game open to all kinds of players with the twoshot FP. The hardcore crowd can withdraw to hell on earth, the clueless can survive normal, and the rest of us fits nicely in between the extremes. The game does not have to cater to only one particular segment of players, when it can fullfill the whishes of many.

TL;DR: I agree with TWI on the scaling of xbow damage.

[EonSeig]

Originally Posted by outofrealman

Only problem is xbow now serve NO PURPOSE. It do nothing better than the M14 + LAR combo. Just because we clearly over-nerf xbow.

The Xbow is better for the Patriarch fight, bar none.

Then again everyone is just going to weld him in the room and AA12 his *** to death.

[Merin Redplate]

Removing the armour from the Berserker was a good move.
1) You don't need armour the first wave.
2) Even if you're a pooh Berserker, you'd be able to get enough money after the first round that you can get armour.

[Merin Redplate]

Hopefully the myriad masses won't find out...

[Aze]

About the Zerker spawn weapons, why have level 5 and 6 be exactly the same starting equipment AND why keep the CHAINSAW as the spawn weapon in the first place?

You could tamper with it any way you want (examples):

Level 5 = Machete or Fire Axe
Level 6 = Machete+Armor or Fire Axe+Armor or Katana (without armor)

(My personal choice would probably be Machete for level 5 and Machete+Armor for level 6)

But why do Zerkers start with the TIER 3 weapon still? Increase its price too. It seems quite beastly now.

[outofrealman]

Originally Posted by EonSeig

The Xbow is better for the Patriarch fight, bar none.

Then again everyone is just going to weld him in the room and AA12 his *** to death.

In patty fight, it is not as ****ty as it does in wave 1-10. But if you can aim for the head, M14 still do much better. And you have laser sight, you dont need to use the scope and allow you to hit his head 10 times easier when he suddenly shows up at your face.

If you can hit where you want without scope or any sights, even better. You can start shooting him right after you have him in sight.

[Mille_W]

Originally Posted by scary ghost

Zerker still spawns with chainsaw. The only difficulties where he doesn't get the bonus armor are, of course, new suicidal and H.o.E. They should just change up the spawn weapons. I think it was Entangler(?) that suggested axe @ level 5 and katana @ level 6 and then up the base price of the chainsaw to $2500 as it is a beast weapon now in beta.

Well, it sounds a bit silly to me. They should definitely change the spawn weapons as you mentioned and keep it the same for all difficulties.
The idea of an axe as lvl 5 and katana as lvl 6, and increase the price for chainsaw sounds like a great idea considering the chainsaw buff. Or perhaps £2500 is a bit too much. £2000 is good enough, imo.

Originally Posted by Novfanaion

Removing the armour from the Berserker was a good move.
1) You don't need armour the first wave.
2) Even if you're a pooh Berserker, you'd be able to get enough money after the first round that you can get armour.

Uhm, true. You don't need armour in the first wave. But! I like keeping it till wave 2 = no money used on armour at all.
Besides, no need to buy armour in the 2nd wave or 3rd for that matter. It's just.. a bonus.

[Old Ranger]

Originally Posted by nutterbutter

Just played suicidal with lvl 5 perks with 3 other players. Total joke. No one died. No one even came close to dying. Patty wiped us though.

Is HOE fine then?

If Hard get only few Beta addings, there is not much changes for Hard lvl 6 players.

How is it now every one? Familiar with new slower speed? Must be higher speed or is it fine?

IMHO Suicidal could be faster, but then there must be more addings in Hard difficulty. If there is not much addings in Hard to make Hard harder, then Suicidal must be like it is now - a bit slower than HOE.

A Suicidal in this patch 7 is fine for me. Its a much like a compromise, cause Hard do not have so many changes. But if asking me, Suicidal would be best if it had Hard speed, its my honest opinion. But i understand that im minority with this opinion.

I still have a stong feeling, that after this beta i would stay in Hard (playing Suicidal with 5-6lvl team only) - hoping there are more challenge, more changes after this beta. Suicidal speed, if you hard core players want so, can be higher speed. But still im very very happy with this Beta.

Also this is not end of the world to anyone. Game is much better after this beta. If game is not gonna change a lot with Beginner, Normal, Hard in this update. Perhaps in next update 1017 it is possebly.

Most important thing is that new comers dont feel game is too hard, and old players dont feel game is too easy. Im between that for my self, hoping that also im get some.

----------------------------

For new comers Beginner must be easy start, if they come to game alone. I did. I bought KF from winter sale, actually at first i thought it was 2d game, had seen only some cartoonlike pictures of KF at that point - only bought it because it was cheap. (perhaps remove those cartoonlike pictures away from ads?) I was very much surprised, very positive way. Top 5 list game straight.

With a team or guild, KF is easier to start. But for lonely rangers, game must be easy at first.

---------------------------
Add Hard at least more things.

I have played Normal in 1015 with new comers, they were lvl 2-4, it was okay for em. Also have played 1015 Hard with em, Hard is harder to em. But with a team, its only good thing, they like. They like also normal. (5-6 players multiplayer game)

[Rainydaykid]

Originally Posted by scary ghost

You can already carry xbow+mac10. Reducing it to 9 lets you carry a SCAR or Axe. That's it, there are no other 5 block weapons.

You could probably drop all your nades and carry a LAR+xbow.

[scary ghost]

We gave the money farming a go last night and i was able to go from £200 to £1000 in about 3 minutes with the new £0.6/heal point. Smiff also mentioned that everyone seems to get a bigger end of round bonus as well so not just the medic gets extra cash.

YouTube - Killing Floor - 1016 Beta Patch 7 - Cash Cow


For the rest of the match, we ran 6 sharpshooters. I believe weapon make up was 4 xbow and 2 lar super shooters. The TF2 engineer sums up the situation quite nicely:

"How am I going to stop some big mean mother hubbard from tearing me a structurally superfluous new behind? The answer, use a gun. And if that don't work, use more gun"

One xbow to the head not enough? Well how about 3 and then LAR spam to get the job done?

YouTube - Killing Floor - 1016 Beta Patch 7 - All Sharpshooters on H.o.E 01

YouTube - Killing Floor - 1016 Beta Patch 7 - All Sharpshooters on H.o.E 02
6:00 - HateMe vs. KF Spawn System

Originally Posted by Rainydaykid

You could probably drop all your nades and carry a LAR+xbow.

Except you can't "drop" the frag weapon. It's akin to having an empty gun but that gun still takes up your weight blocks until you sell it or drop it.

[HaTeMe]

Originally Posted by scary ghost

6:00 - HateMe vs. KF Spawn System

Yeah that was epic. I go behind a column just to find out a fleshpound accompanied by a siren spawned right behind me. Whole team died afterwards.

On a side note, I know we sort of deemed berserker "balanced" but theres still a problem with the chainsaw. With the buffs it got, you can now pretty much stand in a corner and wait for specimens to pass by and die. HOWEVER, if you nerf it again its gonna be useless and nobody uses it. So, I still want to bring up the idea of giving chainsaw FUEL which runs out when you use the primary fire. It should be just enough so it doesnt run out on a typical match when used every now and then, but if you stood behind a corner holding mouse1 down youd run out very quickly.

Would that be out of the question? If so, then leave the chainsaw the way it is.

The cost for fuel could be unnoticable, because its only supposed to prevent you from exploiting the constant damage output.

[Vintage]

You can already carry xbow+mac10. Reducing it to 9 lets you carry a SCAR or Axe. That's it, there are no other 5 block weapons.

Or it lets you carry Xbow + HC + Machete. I have the utmost respect for anyone who wields the Machete. When the Gorefast closes the distance to exploit my close ranged weakness with the Xbow, it will be too late for him to rectify his mistake, for his head will already be seperated from his body by my Machete.

[timur]

Originally Posted by nutterbutter

Just played suicidal with lvl 5 perks with 3 other players. Total joke. No one died. No one even came close to dying. Patty wiped us though.

I honestly need to stop typing mid-battle. Such bad habits from retail....

And Candlejack: just as an explanation, the OutBack Steakhouse is a franchise that pretends to be Australian, and has a heavy advertising campaign, which uses the phrase 'put another shrimp on the barby' every 2 seconds. In case you wanted to know.