Killing Floor 1015 Balanc Patch 5

[Vintage]

Suicidal is now a new difficulty between Hard and Hell on Earth with the difficulty modifier reduced to 5 from 7. All beta changes apply to difficulties 5 and up.

One way to interpret this is that SOME of the changes will apply to all difficulties, such as weapon balance changes, and some of them won't such as FP and Scrake buffs. ALL changes will apply to Suicidal and Hell on Earth.

I would prefer ALL changes applied to ALL difficulties. I am sure most others will agree.

[EonSeig]

I'd say the new mid-range Suicidal feels okay, at least with 4 players or less. Compared to old Suicidal it is obviously a bit easier, though with no more than 4 players it was hard to find it anything but easy. If it were a full team I would find it to be a satisfying but not completely boring break from the old Suicidal, or just something to do with a buncha buddies who aren't as hardcore as me....though to be honest I wasn't even close to a hardcore suicidal player before I joined this beta. I kinda became a fire-forged suicidal player by this testing month.

[Zonker]

Originally Posted by Vintage

I would prefer ALL changes applied to ALL difficulties. I am sure most others will agree.

Pretty much, yeah. I think all final changes so far helped the game a lot, on all difficulties. If weapon / perk / specimen behaviour would change every time a player switches between Hard and Suicidal / Hell on Earth, it could become a little annyoing and irritating for people, I think.

[timur]

lol....these poll names just keep getting better and better

[Skalli]

Originally Posted by Old Ranger

New Suicidals speed question. Could it be slower than Hell on Earth, but a bit faster than Hard? Thoughts?

[...]

I personally hate Suicidal fast speeds. And that would surely keep me away from new Suicidal also even its easier.

Yes, I think HoE is faster than Suicidal.

Why do you hate it? I think it's very interesting and ambitious now (including medic and ss).

The name discussion:
I would also prefer "Killing Floor" as Hell on Earth. Good idea.

Edit:

Originally Posted by Vantage

I would prefer ALL changes applied to ALL difficulties. I am sure most others will agree.

That's right.

[Salad Snake]

Originally Posted by Skalli

Yes, I think HoE is faster than Suicidal.

I think the speed is the same, but damage and Zed HP are increased.

[Skalli]

Originally Posted by Salad Snake

I think the speed is the same, but damage and Zed HP are increased.

Start your normal KF and play Suicidal. Then start KF Beta and play HoE - your movement is faster, everything is faster. I think the gamespeed is ~110% (only a guess).

[Old Ranger]

Originally Posted by Entangler

The speed, damage and health multipliers for Hard, Suicidal and Hell on Earth respectively are:

• Speed: 1.15, 1.3, 1.3
• Damage: 1.25, 1.5, 1.75
• Health: 1.35, 1.55, 1.75

So yes, Suicidal has the same movement speeds as Hell on Earth.

In this Beta i now suggest.

Leave Hell on Earth to TWI totally.
Adjust new Suicidal as Normal Suicidal is wanted to play. This would have effect to Hard also.

After new Suicidal is done and perfect (as all were doing patch 4 example), this Beta is done.

Then TWI will make Hell On Earth (or Killing Floor as it name).

Numbers after Beta is done would be something like this...

Hard, Suicidal and Hell on Earth (KF) respectively are:

• Speed: 1.15, 1.3, 1.3
• Damage: 1.25, 1.75, TWI
• Health: 1.35, 1.75, TWI

TWI = Tripwires own decicion = most difficult whole new difficulty, that even beta testers have no clue.

[Spicy]

Simply calling the new difficulty "Killing Floor" would be cool. Otherwise it means we can refer to you Hell on Earther's as "hoes."

[҈Oc†ө]

Originally Posted by EonSeig

though to be honest I wasn't even close to a hardcore suicidal player before I joined this beta. I kinda became a fire-forged suicidal player by this testing month.

to be honest me too! but now i look at hard as very easy and the new suicidal will be my choice 'till i need more challenge.

I still need to play some more games before i can give a proper feedback on this new dificulty, but it's been very fun so far.

Thanks TWI for adding this new dif. setting.

BTW, the suicidal speed is fine for me, maybe because i got used to it beta testing suicidal all this month.

[҈Oc†ө]

Originally Posted by Zonker

Pretty much, yeah. I think all final changes so far helped the game a lot, on all difficulties. If weapon / perk / specimen behaviour would change every time a player switches between Hard and Suicidal / Hell on Earth, it could become a little annyoing and irritating for people, I think.

I agree, but i think that the knife nerf and the new and feared clots should be taken away from dificulties lower than 5.

I'd also introduce a bit more money, a bit more ammo etc for Hard and below, just to make things a bit easyer and to avoid excesive impact for the doubled mone bug fix, but i'd definitelly keep the rest of changes in all dificulties to maintain a good game sense.

[Old Ranger]

Of course Hard must have new effects after this Beta.

[timur]

Originally Posted by Old Ranger

Of course Hard must have new effects after this Beta.

Would it be asking too much to put a few on?

Like the SS nerf, and the LAW epicness?

[Xienen]

We will absolutely be applying some changes to Normal and Hard, but very few will apply to Normal and a few more will apply to Hard. Normal will only get slightly harder due to things like 2 XBow headshots to kill the FP with Level 3 SS. Hard will get a little harder, but not alot harder. The new Suicidal will be about as hard as the old Suicidal, but in different ways: Clots wont let you jump away, no stun locking, no 1 shot kills on Scrakes and FPs, etc.; but all the Zeds will have a slightly lower health(and perhaps a slightly slower walk speed). We hope it'll balance out. And Hell on Earth(possibly Killing Floor) will hopefully be what all the Vets have been missing =)

[Sammers]

Originally Posted by [TW]Xienen

We will absolutely be applying some changes to Normal and Hard, but very few will apply to Normal and a few more will apply to Hard. Normal will only get slightly harder due to things like 2 XBow headshots to kill the FP with Level 3 SS. Hard will get a little harder, but not alot harder. The new Suicidal will be about as hard as the old Suicidal, but in different ways: Clots wont let you jump away, no stun locking, no 1 shot kills on Scrakes and FPs, etc.; but all the Zeds will have a slightly lower health(and perhaps a slightly slower walk speed). We hope it'll balance out. And Hell on Earth(possibly Killing Floor) will hopefully be what all the Vets have been missing =)

I think Normal and Hard can handle all the changes to be honest. If anything, it would only have players hang about the beginner servers a little longer. Nobody ever seems to ever use beginner difficulty......ever! All it takes to be good at Normal and Hard is to essentially just learn the ropes and have a couple teamates who have done the same. No more rambolicious solo-ing players stealing all the kills. Would encourage teamwork.

[Slappy Cromwell]

There is absolutely no reason why every single change shouldn't apply to every difficulty. So many other factors in the game are already set to scale to the difficulty level. Why be inexplicably picky with the balance tweaks now? Die hard Beginners and Normals will have a slightly more challenging experience. They can deal with it. I cannot stress enough the fact that much of this added difficulty will barely be felt at these skill levels after the scaling. Also, I can't fathom a single reason why Hard players wouldn't embrace the entirety of the update with open arms. They're choosing to play Hard, after all. Being selective with the balance tweaks will only create a bizarre and totally baffling disconnect that will widen the difficulty gap that seems to be of so much concern.

If these changes don't get applied equally to every available difficulty, then this entire beta endeavor will have been for naught. At the very, very, very least, all of these updates should apply to Hard.

[Salad Snake]

At this point, I would think that all beta changes should apply to all difficulties because in the end most of the buffs offset the Zed buffs. At the very least all beta weapon buffs should apply at Normal, if not the weapon nerfs too.

The only changes that might not go well with casual players are the Scrake rage change, FP behavior change, and clot change. That's it really. As someone who plays with friends on Normal a bunch, I'm sure they can handle it with the weapon buffs added in too. Most don't even jump-evade clots now.

If anything, add a little more money multiplier to compensate.

[outofrealman]

You should not suddenly change many of the game rules on suicidal and above.

Anyway, if we apply changes to all difficults, the biggest impact will be totally new players found normal a bit of a challenge, so FINALLY beginer can have its purpose.

[Salad Snake]

We should rename Beginner then, to 'Casual' or 'Outbreak' difficulty, since it wouldn't just be for beginners anymore.

In fact, Normal and Hard could also do with a cooler (but just as descriptive) name.

[Old Ranger]

Originally Posted by [TW]Xienen

We will absolutely be applying some changes to Normal and Hard, but very few will apply to Normal and a few more will apply to Hard. Normal will only get slightly harder due to things like 2 XBow headshots to kill the FP with Level 3 SS. Hard will get a little harder, but not alot harder. The new Suicidal will be about as hard as the old Suicidal, but in different ways: Clots wont let you jump away, no stun locking, no 1 shot kills on Scrakes and FPs, etc.; but all the Zeds will have a slightly lower health(and perhaps a slightly slower walk speed). We hope it'll balance out. And Hell on Earth(possibly Killing Floor) will hopefully be what all the Vets have been missing =)

Im glad that Hard will have effect. Still hoping that Hard will have every effect. At least full Xbow nerf needs to be there, no 1 shot kills to FP, Scrake. Also new cloths grab system tells you that this is Hard. And maybe stunlock remove. But imo im rdy to all changes if new Suicidal is not slower. (im also not afraid, that beta touch all difficulties, for example my friend join to KF, and not playing beginner at all, straight to normal - beginner was too easy, we tested it only once, he wanted more challenge)

So. Would be cool also, if new Suicidal have slower speed, 1.2? Hard is now (iv read) 1.15, HOE is 1.3. If not all changes are added in Hard also. (Imho, i wish it (speed) could be same as Hard, but its just me)

1.3 speed is like bullet train comin straight to me. Its too high speed for me, i dont enjoy it so much, i need a breath when i play. But its HOE, its for HOE players, good.

Also you all beta testers are adjusting HOE, so you will get what you want. Hard players dont get what they want in this beta if not all new things are not added to Hard.