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Flak 88's

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#21
What exactly does animating involve? I took a semester worth of Poser 6 classes, and am fairly proficient with it. I have it and tinker with it quite often to make animations (albeit with character models).

If Poser is too simple of a program, I have 3ds max as well. If its anything like poser (grabbing key points and defining movement along the x,y,z planes, at least for character models, and using key frames and such) then I would probably have a breeze throwing something fairly convincing together (I'd assume the 88 itself would have to be animated using 3d segements of the gun, but its mechanical, straight lines and diagonals).



Ive never actually modded animations in any game before (let alone mod anything other than a few textures though), but if anyone is willing to guide me in the right direction (like the proper procedure for putting out something that works, not the actuall work), then I'd be up for a shot.



As for textures and modelling, I could put something out (the model would be nicer than the textures), but I wouldnt prefer it, not at the level I'm currently at with either. Im definantly not great at UV mapping and I have no idea how to rig.
 
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#22
Recce said:
An 88mm shell, for the KwK36 was about a meter long. The projectile weighed about 10Kg, and I believe the entire shell weighed about 20Kg, so making it pretty much end heavy. You could get a greater rate of fire from a Pak or Flak gun than from a tank for various reasons. Such as multiple people helping, easier to reach ammunition and being able to stand behind the breach. A Tiger's turret was a far more crampled affair. Have a watch of this to get an idea of the space available.
Click to expand...

But same applies also for 75mm guns with 43, 48 or 70 caliber barrel. The ammo for those is not significantly smaller or lighter and the tanks using those guns are smaller than the Tiger. Howcome the rate of fire is still lot faster?

For comparison:
88 L/56 (Pzgr. 39):
- weight of projectile/round: 10.2 kg[1] / ??
- length of the case/round: (571mm ?)[2] /??
75 L/48 (Pzgr. Patr. 39):
- weight of projectile/round: 6.8 kg[3] / 11.52 kg[3]
- length of cartridge case/round: 495 mm[3] / ??
75 L/70 (Pzgr. 39)/42:
- weight of projectile/round: 6.8 kg[4] /14.3 kg[4]
- length of the case/round: 640 mm[4] / 893.2 mm[4]

[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KwK_36
[2]http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/AA_GUNS3.htm#88ItK37
[3]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.5_cm_KwK_40
[4]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.5_cm_KwK_42
 
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#23
Sgt.Rock said:
What exactly does animating involve? I took a semester worth of Poser 6 classes, and am fairly proficient with it. I have it and tinker with it quite often to make animations (albeit with character models).

If Poser is too simple of a program, I have 3ds max as well. If its anything like poser (grabbing key points and defining movement along the x,y,z planes, at least for character models, and using key frames and such) then I would probably have a breeze throwing something fairly convincing together (I'd assume the 88 itself would have to be animated using 3d segements of the gun, but its mechanical, straight lines and diagonals).



Ive never actually modded animations in any game before (let alone mod anything other than a few textures though), but if anyone is willing to guide me in the right direction (like the proper procedure for putting out something that works, not the actuall work), then I'd be up for a shot.



As for textures and modelling, I could put something out (the model would be nicer than the textures), but I wouldnt prefer it, not at the level I'm currently at with either. Im definantly not great at UV mapping and I have no idea how to rig.
Click to expand...

you pretty much got the basics i'm an old poser vet myself, get a hold of3d max and pm me if you want ill try and get u some anim tutorials, tbh i dnt know that much about animation but i can rig a little, purely because i dnt do my mods animations but i can def point u in the right direction.
 
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#24
Grobut said:
Any AT gun would need it, or it will look like the little plastic soldier figures we had as kids, just standing there with a mortar (my plastic men allways came with a mortar, not an 88), and every now and then it would go boom.
To look finished and real, you would need some anims so it looks like the people are doing something with the gun.



I figure we have one content update left with RO, at best, then its going to be game over man, and TWI will start full speed on the next game.
And if im right about that, does it really seem likely that they would spend time on this? nope, not really, it would be nice, but i dont think its in the cards.

As for it beeing "not rocket science" and us just beeing "lazy".. go put your modding talents where your mouth is, model, skin, animate and code us an 88 and an 85, have them on my desk by next friday!

I dont know if you just rolled in on the 4 o'clock turnip truck, but this community has all of zero avalible modding talent, very few people here have any skills, and thouse few have long since been hired by the big mods, and are more than occupied working on thouse.

That leaves just a few scattered coding newbies like me, and i sure as hell wouldent even know where to start, and i cant think of anyone else who could who also has the time to do it, nor the will (lets face it, this communty is not very mod freindly..), i cant think of any avalible modellers, animators or texture guys either.


So if you really have the goods, feel more than welcome to bring it! we could use some AT guns, if not, its all just more empty talk..
Click to expand...

Sorry, my interest is not really in AT guns or Flaks. As mod lead and lead coder of CC (and also the guy that indeed rigged the tanks, animated them, rigged and animated our mortar, rigged and animated more than 4 weapons to date, 1st and 3rd person) i think I am in the position to say what is rocket science and what not, are you?

Its not like there is not tons of text out there that in detail describes how to approach certain things. The unreal wiki is only one place.

As for the available modder problem, i think im also more than aware of the situation, which is imo at least within the community based on the fact that people prefer to write up their ideas instead of sitting down and read up on how to do it.
 
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#25
Basil said:
But same applies also for 75mm guns with 43, 48 or 70 caliber barrel. The ammo for those is not significantly smaller or lighter and the tanks using those guns are smaller than the Tiger. Howcome the rate of fire is still lot faster?

For comparison:
88 L/56 (Pzgr. 39):
- weight of projectile/round: 10.2 kg[1] / ??
- length of the case/round: (571mm ?)[2] /??
75 L/70 (Pzgr. 39)/42:
- weight of projectile/round: 6.8 kg[4] /14.3 kg[4]
- length of the case/round: 640 mm[4] / 893.2 mm[4]
Click to expand...
Sorry guys, slight thread hi-jack going on here.
The Pather's Kwk42 L/70 is going to be your closest shell in terms of size and weight. I'm guessing that they were near enough the same length, but the 75mm was 25% lighter (based on the 88's weight of approx 20Kg).

The Panther's ammo was stored in the turret, while the Tiger's was "stored in bins beneath the turret basket, on the hull floor and on the side of the superstructure".http://www.alanhamby.com/cutaway.html.
So what is the difference on RPM, in RO:OST between the two?

You can try and estimate the length of a KwK36 shell from these pictures.
http://www.netlabor.hu/roncskutatas/uploads/photos/12211.jpg
http://www.redorchestragame.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1016&d=1177102490
In the 2nd link, going from right to left, in the front row, you have a KwK43 then a KwK36 shell.
I wish I could remember where I read the KwK36 shell weight. Most people quote the projectile weight as the shell weight ;).
If anyone does have a reference, please let me know.
 
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#26
worluk said:
Sorry, my interest is not really in AT guns or Flaks. As mod lead and lead coder of CC (and also the guy that indeed rigged the tanks, animated them, rigged and animated our mortar, rigged and animated more than 4 weapons to date, 1st and 3rd person) i think I am in the position to say what is rocket science and what not, are you?
Click to expand...

So you are just "passing on the black jack", you dont wanna do it, so its everyone elses fault because they are lazy :rolleyes:

No really, all jokes aside, who's gonna make this thing? name just one person in this community who has the skill, the time and the will to do it, and dont look at me, because i dont have the skill! my "talent" amounts to nothing more than copy/pasting lines of code into a file and hoping that it will somehow compile.. and you know what the scary thing is? that actually makes me one of the more "talented" people in this community who is not allready otherwise employed! :eek:

With a talent base like that, how could we fail! well i could think of a million reasons.

worluk said:
Its not like there is not tons of text out there that in detail describes how to approach certain things. The unreal wiki is only one place.
Click to expand...

And they might aswell be written in ancient hebrew for all the good it does a newbie coder.. if you cant allready code, no amount of code examples are going to help you, because you dont understand what the hell it means! and none of thease sites are going to tell you what it means.

Trust me, i've been there and done that, wasted countless houers on it, and it has not made me any smarter, because all of thease sites work from the assumption that you allready know how to code, and i have never learned that, are you going to teach me? i thought not..

worluk said:
As for the available modder problem, i think im also more than aware of the situation, which is imo at least within the community based on the fact that people prefer to write up their ideas instead of sitting down and read up on how to do it.
Click to expand...

Yes, because its just that easy for everyone, issen't it?

Wake up mate, look around you, how many people here could even code a basic item swapping mutator for UT? hell, how many even know what an .uc file is or how UCC works? and they are ready to start working on vehicals? you might aswell ask them to do rocket science.
 
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#28
Aeneas2020 said:
ok screw it fine i'll take it on...if it's gunna cause problems i'll make sure the Darkest Hour crew get u a flak88 at some point...there done.
Click to expand...

ok now, that ain't the Wine Spritzers doin the talkin now is it? ;)

from what I've learned this would be quite a challenge to create. But it was such a sweet weopon... has it ever been created in any ww2 fps? One would think it has been, it has a big "fan base"- plus, the performance demands shouldn't be that high. (?)
 
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#31
Grobut said:
stuff
Click to expand...

yeah, too bad there aint some spoonfeeding way, one still has to use ones brain...

weird though that despite all UScript being documented to crappy according to you, several people managed quite well to learn it.
Well, i dont agree with the "only codefiles" part anyway, but i guess http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/UnrealScript_Hello_World is too hard for some too start with...

As for the working on vehicles, so far beside some adjustments in AB and the tankriding of AHz most that was done in terms of "vehicle coding" was changing default values, which, to me is not more coding than doing HTML.
 
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#32
It takes one guys enough time to know how to pull apart the stock models. Add bones and animations and then either code it himself or get someone to do the code. The Zis-3 and pak40 we are releasing are STOCK models which RAMM gave us permission to modify.

It does take time, experience and/or talent and it is a very obvious fact that few people in the community have all the skills or even one of a few. It will be done at some point and is even our our MinionWorkz list, just not for the current release plan.
 
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#33
attachment.php


Ask Shurek for 88's, I would suggest ;)

http://www.redorchestragame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17424
 
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#34
2fisted said:
ok now, that ain't the Wine Spritzers doin the talkin now is it? ;)

from what I've learned this would be quite a challenge to create. But it was such a sweet weopon... has it ever been created in any ww2 fps? One would think it has been, it has a big "fan base"- plus, the performance demands shouldn't be that high. (?)
Click to expand...

Closest I've seen it made into a fps game would be in the mod for BF1942 - Forgotten Hope: both in a vehicle: http://forgottenhope.filefront.com/images/vehicles/SdKfz 7 Flak18/big.jpg
and as a stationary weapon. but it didn't have a preview pick from the site.
 
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