I'd like to thank all the Berserkers

[DarkFenix]

It's not the SS as such that should be aiming for those 4 types. The only thing I'd call SS exclusive is the FP, since only an SS can get the one shot kill on them. What I would say those zombie classes are is crossbow fodder.

Crossbows are the weapon that renders those enemy types a joke, and on suicidal if husks/sirens aren't rendered a joke, they're a threat. This does primarily mean the SS, but most medics, berserkers and many support specs use the crossbow.

It's also worth considering the actual numerical distribution of enemies. Taking out those four enemy types AND picking off a lot of crawlers/stalkers (since other people have a tendency not to do their job in any given game), I still don't get as many kills as a friend playing a berserker.

At any rate, here's how I see the roles of all the classes:
SS - kill FPs, husks, sirens, scrakes (that order of priority), if none present kill crawlers (to support berserkers), if none present kill anything else.
Commando - kill crawlers, bloats, stalkers, if none present kill gorefasts, clots. If siren/husk reaches close range, kill.
Berserker - act as shield for the team, kill anything and everything that gets close.
Demolitions - target groups at long range. Lay minefield over route of retreat. Avoid close range fire, avoid firing at scrakes/FPs (ie. enraging zombies).
Medic - heal team members, primarily berserker(s). Act as secondary SS targeting husks, sirens, scrakes. Leave FPs to SS unless none present.
Support - change to a more useful class. I hate this class, it can't do anything at close range a berserker can't do better. If a support takes long range weapons, well, why not switch to a class that gets bonuses with long range weapons? And last but not least, crippling ammo shortage.
Firebug - change to a more useful class. This class can't do anything a commando can't do better. Well, actually, yeah it can. This class blocks everyone's view better, and runs out of ammo better.

Sorry support/firebug players, but your class lacks a role at the moment (please don't accuse me of not playing them or not knowing how to play them, support spec and firebug were my first heavily played classes).

In short, yeah, SS should be going for the tougher zombies, medics too. Commandos pick off weak ones. Berserkers kill anything close. Demos are more useful for the pipebomb field they build up throughout the map than the launchers (not that I'm sniffing at the class, I regard a safe escape route as about the most important thing in any camp spot).

[Melon_Reaper]

Originally Posted by YFGHNG

Aw...M14 is a pussy weapon. Period. I take out crawlers with my 9mm, thank you very much.

Agree: m14 is only allowed if your team hardcore fails.
Disagree: SS should not use his 9mm on crawlers. See Below.

Originally Posted by DarkFenix

Crawlers are trash. Commandos and firebugs can deal with them. The SS should be aiming for husks, sirens, FPs, scrakes. Oh and why are you using your 9mm to take out crawlers? That's called timewasting. Just whip out a deagle and one shot them headshot or not.

If a berserker is taking out scrakes, the SS isn't doing his job. If the berserker is going for husks, the berserker isn't doing his job.

I think Berserkers should go after scrakes. They can stun them for a reason. Also, if a SS aims at EVERY single husk, siren, FP, and scrake, they will easily run out of bow bolts.

Originally Posted by YFGHNG

K my bad for not seeing that, but don't quote yourself. It serves to only stroke your ego.

So basically you're saying that 4/9 spec types should be left up to the SS? That leaves the other 5 types to be split among the other 5 perks. Somehow I don't think people would be happy with that.

Originally Posted by Melon_Reaper

I guess the commando and support perks just sit there and leave the SS to do everything...

Mmm, ego stroke. I guess people who care about easy kills go SS (using either bow or m14) and people who want to try different things use the other classes.

[DarkFenix]

You would think you'd run out of bolts, but even on 6 man suicidal, wave 10, you just about have enough bolts to deal with everything. It can get a bit hairy towards the end, but then you use your deagle(s) to take sirens out (sirens being the lowest immediate threat, and the weakest target). Or like you say, it's easy enough to ignore the scrake for the berserker to take out. I prefer not to chance it unless I have to (usually more to do with the risk of idiot teammates enraging the scrake than a lack of faith in the berserker).

[YFGHNG]

Originally Posted by DarkFenix

It's also worth considering the actual numerical distribution of enemies.

Numerical distribution of specs doesn't really count for much to a SS who can line up a lot and take them all down before any other class gets to them.

Originally Posted by DarkFenix

Sorry support/firebug players, but your class lacks a role at the moment (please don't accuse me of not playing them or not knowing how to play them, support spec and firebug were my first heavily played classes).

Support has heavy shotgun damage. It makes a good supplement to the zerker shield. Specs can easily skirt around one zerker swinging a katana at it. Trying to kite around a support blasting at it with a hunting shotty and a zerker is harder for them.

Also, firebug doesn't block the view that much if he's shooting at specs far away from you and you know where to aim.

[DarkFenix]

Killing actual threats tends to be a somewhat full time role, leaving basically no time to muck around lining up long lines of zombies (unless you actually have a competent team, something I've yet to see).

Support has unreliable damage. Even at short range the spread is unreliable, at point blank range the support is a detriment to the berserker, instead making it more likely the zombies will skirt round him rather than attack him head on. The best way for the berserker to do his job is if as many zombies as possible go for him and him alone, that means he has to comprise the front line on his own, a support dancing around nearby makes more problems than it solves. Anyway, there is no particular specimen the shotgun is amazing against. An even half decent commando can do a better job of picking off stragglers that get by the berserker (particularly since the class of enemy most likely to avoid the berserker unnoticed is the stalker, plainly visible to the commando).

True, firebug doesn't block the view much firing at long range, similarly to the demo, but why bother setting the zombie on fire at long range when a single SCAR bullet can pop its head off anyway.

The fact is the support and firebug both fill non-unique roles. Their job can be done better by another class or a combination of a couple of other classes.

[rhardcore]

Originally Posted by Melon_Reaper

In a six-person game, a berserker should probably not be killing husks, unless he has a bow or the husk is right on top of the group. Although it depends on the map.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, you think that the SS should snipe FP's AND kill crawlers? What weapon is he doing that with? A bow and an m14? I guess the commando and support perks just sit there and leave the SS to do everything...



A good chainsaw would be nice. However, you laugh at/insult the bow now, but I predict massive whining when/if it gets nerfed.

Nerf the bow without giving back the chainsaw? Heck yeah I would whine. I will be like boo-hoo-DED. Every class has something that they can use inside their own class to kill FP's without getting thrashed. Every class, but the Berserker that is. We have to run around with it chasing us yelling, "Aaah! Kill it! Someone kill it! Where is the SharpShooter?!?!" LoL

[rhardcore]

Originally Posted by DarkFenix

You would think you'd run out of bolts, but even on 6 man suicidal, wave 10, you just about have enough bolts to deal with everything. It can get a bit hairy towards the end, but then you use your deagle(s) to take sirens out (sirens being the lowest immediate threat, and the weakest target). Or like you say, it's easy enough to ignore the scrake for the berserker to take out. I prefer not to chance it unless I have to (usually more to do with the risk of idiot teammates enraging the scrake than a lack of faith in the berserker).

As much as I love to kill Scrakes as a beserker, I have to agree with you. I would rather be running up to a Scrake and see his head dissapear than have it get enraged by a support or demo and see it kill have the team.

If the scrake is far away, shoot away. If he is close, let me have it and pick a more distant threat. You already said this and I agree. It all works if the support aren't pissing everything off with shotguns.

I also prefer if someone else handles the sirens. Yeah, I can one slice them, but they either hurt me before I get to them or cause me to slow my action down to get the right timing and rush them.

[YFGHNG]

Originally Posted by DarkFenix

The fact is the support and firebug both fill non-unique roles. Their job can be done better by another class or a combination of a couple of other classes.

Ok then. Given all that, I'd like to see you convince the whole of TWI that the support and firebug classes aren't as useful as the other classes and that they should take those two perks away. If you can't, then clearly they see a reason to keep them that you do not.

[DarkFenix]

Well, yeah, removing content from a game just because it's unbalanced is something of a suicidal business policy.

I don't want the classes removed, I want them improved. I loved the support spec at release, it was excellent back then. Shotgun penetration was much higher and the hunting shotgun had an enormous kick that could and would send a scrake half way across the map. The firebug has always been of slightly dubious use, but the addition of tier 3 weaponry for other classes has put it beyond any doubt.

The support spec and firebug just need to be shown some love, the former in balancing, the latter in content.

[Melon_Reaper]

Originally Posted by rhardcore

Nerf the bow without giving back the chainsaw? Heck yeah I would whine. I will be like boo-hoo-DED. Every class has something that they can use inside their own class to kill FP's without getting thrashed. Every class, but the Berserker that is. We have to run around with it chasing us yelling, "Aaah! Kill it! Someone kill it! Where is the SharpShooter?!?!" LoL

Every class? You must know some pro firebugs, because I don't know any that can handle a Fleshpound.

It isn't just berserkers that have trouble with pounds. For example, all the perks (save sharpshooter, bows aside) would have trouble killing them on a 6 person suicidal server. That's the whole point: working together.

Maybe one commando with a scar can't handle a FP, but if he's backed by a support with an aa12 then he can.

[Saal]

Originally Posted by omarfw

as much as I know it's just a balance issue, I really wish people would stop playing beserker. (until they're fixed)

the minute I stop healing the dumb zerker on our team and just let him die, we start owning instead of losing.

This attitude is precisely the kind of thing that makes me want to play berserker. you may whine that we get in the way and suck up heals, but note that it's always the berseker or the medic that stays alive when everyone else wipes and carries the team through to the next wave. Oh, and btw, I don't need medic heals ;P

[Melon_Reaper]

Originally Posted by Saal

This attitude is precisely the kind of thing that makes me want to play berserker. you may whine that we get in the way and suck up heals, but note that it's always the berseker or the medic that stays alive when everyone else wipes and carries the team through to the next wave. Oh, and btw, I don't need medic heals ;P

I love playing berserker on normal difficulty. I hope that my team dies so I can rambo through the rest of the wave and inflate my ego. Oh, and btw, I don't need my flashlight ;P

[CandleJack]

I prefer support to demo. Demo just spams pipes and has no other real use. Support, has awesome shotguns that deal damage to multiple specimens (not zombies, no zombies in KF) and has the power to really dish out the pain when **** gets close. Try using a demo in CQC. A support welds doors to stack up specs to unleash upon, and can really back up teammates by carrying extra weapons if they feel like it.

I find that firebug does a better job at CC than demo, because a demo may panic when he sees a FP and nuke it, therefore blinding the sharpie. Fire doesn't blind as much as smoke. That and a decent firebug can help out against or solo kill a scrake. If a firebug plays his cards right, he can crisp a FP before it rages, allowing a commando or zerker to whip it's @ss.

And when your camping spot needs welding to work, who's the guy you need to tank the door? support of course.

I love the support and hate the demotardlitions. Support and firebug do a way better job at his role, crowd control. A firebug can light up a scrake or FP without enraging it, something the demo can't do. The support can tackle anything in medium to close range, and has the capacity to hold TWO shotguns, a combo of Shotgun, Hunting Shotgun and AA12.

I know for a fact that support can take out a scrake solo, something a demo can't do due to the fact demo fails against scrakes. And they take less explosive damage, that helps too.

[AceUnlimited]

I use Berserker a lot and i got a pretty impressive damage dealt amount of 900 million (900,000,000), Add me on steam, my name is Ace Unlimited
So if you need any help ---- Just call Ace, He'll be on the Case, Putting specimen in their Place, By getting in their Face!
Just call me when I'm on and I'll be there!

[AceUnlimited]

I'm not trying to correct you or anything but if you Killing Floor SDK, and go to Scripted Triggers, then Spawn Actor, then scroll down to bottow of list it will say ZombieClot, ZombieCrawler, ZombieSiren, and so on. Just letting you know thats all, I'm not trying to start anything.

[Olivier]

Originally Posted by AceUnlimited

I'm not trying to correct you or anything but if you Killing Floor SDK, and go to Scripted Triggers, then Spawn Actor, then scroll down to bottow of list it will say ZombieClot, ZombieCrawler, ZombieSiren, and so on. Just letting you know thats all, I'm not trying to start anything.

What?

[AceUnlimited]

In other words they are KFZombies but yet their still specimens.