Best and worst of suggestion - Look here before posting

[Zetsumei]

Personally for me one of the most important topics still seems to be missing though.

Which is suggestions about the actual capturing system for me. IMO the RO cap system was state of the art for me when I started playing in 2004, but after playing for all this time the flaws with it are starting to become more and more apparent.

Whoever holds the biggest/most important ground should in my opinion be the owner of the cap zone, and not whoever got the most people in often desolated corners of the cap zone.

---------------

Here some other suggestions that I think should be in the list:

Removal of enemy presence in the cap bar:
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.co...ad.php?t=38874

ability to roll when prone:
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.co...ad.php?t=30366

Ability to get different mouse speeds for people without special DPI settings:
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.co...ad.php?t=39517

Ability to peek over the machinegun:
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.co...ad.php?t=40358

And for the considered list :P

Showing stat based relative difficulty of a server:
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.co...ad.php?t=37046

[Tiger2]

I cannot understand how ammo crates are in the list, but ammo carriers are a no go. For me, something that works in the game is better than something that is completely broken.

First consider that we are moving in the direction of 'Rush' which is undoubtedly the most immersive and realistic game type to date. With this in mind, the game is very fast and makes crates redundant when you are an attacker in the enemy territory. What would make the game work, would be soldiers carrying ammo packs for automatic weapons as they tend to run out quickly. Some rules could then be added:

When the ammo carrier runs out of supplies, he has to wait some time to get replenished. This time limit has to apply even if the ammo carrier dies which means that he will respawn without an ammo pack if the 30 second or 1 minute replenish waiting period has not passed. This will prevent the exploit of committing suicide and amassing mountains of ammunition.

There should be roughly two supply men in a team of 16 each of whom carry set amount of ammo with the relevant replenish waiting period.

When coming under heavy fire the ammo carrier cannot replenish, which in turn gives some force to MGs that can cut off supplies in this way (not entirely sure whether this rule can propely work).


One final point is that this role becomes useless on small scale ‘objective control’ maps , but becomes highly useful on large scale 20 v 20 ‘Rush’ maps. The number of supply men per team and replenish time periods I suggested are wild guesses and will be worked out by devs when fine tuning the game.

[RedGuardist]

Sure, the crates are gamey too, I agree.

But the problem is, that there were no dedicated ammo carriers in Soviet or German platoons. That kind of narrows it down.

The "sort of ammo carriers" can be found from the supply squad of the company. But those guys were not running around in the middle of the combat and supplying ammo. They were responsible for the ammo supply from the battalion to the company level. Then platoon leader or debuty leader was responsible from the supply to the platoon from company level.

Like was stated before, the only "carriers" in the squad were the soldiers who carried ammo for the MGs. In the squad it was the leader who was responsible, that all the men in the squad had ammo. In the platoon it was the debuty platoon leader. They took care that the ammo is divided etc.

But there were no "ammo carrier"-soldiers IRL in the platoon, so why there should be those in game?






And while we are at it, capt. Cool, I think that the topping off rifles should be added to the list on page 1.

[Tiger2]

Let us just begin with the soldiers that carried spare ammo for the MGs. From a historical perspective that makes the suggestion valid.

However, it is much more important than that because it adds a lot of depth to the gameplay. It means that one player depends on the other and drives the game away from a free-for-all environment that exists in arcade games. It sits well with everyone's wish to have a team based game and I am surprised not many picked up on this. There is more in the way of tactics and strategy if the MGs can tip the balance of the match and you need to make sure how to keep them resupplied.

Secondly, If you are always forced to throw away your weapon and scavenge enemy firearms when you run out of ammo (and this
increases the likelihood of friendly fire), the game that is meant to be realistic feels and becomes broken. How sensible is it to throw away an mg42 because you have no belts? This is the point which I want many RO fans to understand.

[RedGuardist]

Originally Posted by Tiger2

Let us just begin with the soldiers that carried spare ammo for the MGs. From a historical perspective that makes the suggestion valid.

[...]

How sensible is it to throw away an mg42 because you have no belts? This is the point which I want many RO fans to understand.

Carrying ammo for MGs was done already in RO:OST. Everyone carried one belt/drum/pan magazine. In RO:OST you usually don´t run out of ammo with MG, if you just bother to ask it.


Yes, it´s a fact that there were guys carrying ammo for the MG.

But there were no "ammo carrier"-soldiers carrying extra ammo for everybody in the squad/platoon. So adding "ammo carriers" is not a valid suggestion from a historical perspectice.

[Tiger2]

I dont mind histrorical accuracy so much. Nothing is realistic about the type of fighting that you see on maps like Danzig where you know with hindsight where the attackers are coming from. When you know that there are only two narrow paths from which the foe can come, realism flies out of the window. When you have large open environments and it is much harder to predict this, you have some immersion and realism.

So you want a supply class that only resupplies MGs and is bound by the rules in my post? That can be quite good because SMGs will play wisely knowing that no resupplies are available for them.

[Zetsumei]

when you go to a resupply point you get another set of mg ammo as well.

So you already have ammo carriers, just bring your ammo to the mg, go to the resupply post and bring some more to the mg.

[{Core}Craig]

Thread could be good if kept updated.. . how hard will that be when the css kiddies start spamming, wanting uber zooming space rifles, once the game release is looming.

I like orange text.

[Tiger2]

Originally Posted by Zetsumei

when you go to a resupply point you get another set of mg ammo as well.

So you already have ammo carriers, just bring your ammo to the mg, go to the resupply post and bring some more to the mg.

But resupply posts will not work in a game like RO. Before you manage to get back to hand ammo to the MG, he will be long dead and nobody wants to be running around and getting ammo to the frontline, hence my post about special rules for replenishing ammo supply.

[Zetsumei]

Originally Posted by Tiger2

But resupply posts will not work in a game like RO. Before you manage to get back to hand ammo to the MG, he will be long dead and nobody wants to be running around and getting ammo to the frontline, hence my post about special rules for replenishing ammo supply.

Currently every single soldiers carries some MG ammo, as it was realistically. Why would you need a special class carrying ammo. If multiple people can share the weight.

There is absolutely no problem with people giving mg's ammo, the +5 points even when an MG doesn't need ammo currently make sure of it. Heck friendly soldiers jump into my own mg fire trying to supply me. Shoot at my foot to make me stop to resupply me. I just don't see any need for a special resupplying class, if the current system is realistic and supplies the mg with plenty of ammo.

[Yoshiro]

Odds are we won't sticky any suggestion thread until the game is in the large beta phase. But we also don't want people to misconstrue that just because the thread has the almighty sticky every suggestion (or any suggestion) in it will be used.

Remember, TWI might disagree with you. And by the time the game reaches "beta" stage it will be feature complete so to speak. Any additional feature additions will be weighed very heavily before deciding to add them even if it is liked. Case in point. Every month there is a new unreal engine build. They tend to have some awesome new features! Tripwire deciding to upgrade to it usually means RO:HoS doesn't work the next day!

But we do actively read these posts in the suggestion area.

[Kashash]

Question - what percentage of all those suggestions approximately are implemented in HOS? I'm curious how all ideas forum is really influencing TWI? Is RO community hugely helping in giving all those ideas and TWI find them very useful, or is it like that the game wouldn't change much without the ideas forum anyway and it's like that these ideas are just read..

[Yoshiro]

Originally Posted by Kashash

Question - what percentage of all those suggestions approximately are implemented in HOS? I'm curious how all ideas forum is really influencing TWI? Is RO community hugely helping in giving all those ideas and TWI find them very useful, or is it like that the game wouldn't change much without the ideas forum anyway and it's like that these ideas are just read..

No idea, but we read them all and tell the rest of the team about what we consider "good ones". And we've been doing it since Ostfront. Many things in the game have come from the ost suggestion forums. So it is very helpful for people to give their ideas and suggestions. We've made tweaks and changes based on those ideas for years. However people need to understand that "new" systems that aren't ingame in some way have very low odds of showing up after the game has left alpha stage. Because new code tends to break everything in ways you can't imagine until you implement it, which means long test times and possible changes to how the game plays completely with features that aren't designed to handle the new one.

An example of this would be round penetration. When we first developed Ost we didn't think round penetration was viable, so we didn't look at it. Later one when computers and servers got more powerful it became viable, however no maps in Ost were designed for this feature and they would all have to be remade from the ground up. Instead the team chose to implement larger servers with the more powerful cpu's.

[Tiger2]

Originally Posted by Zetsumei

Currently every single soldiers carries some MG ammo, as it was realistically. Why would you need a special class carrying ammo. If multiple people can share the weight.

There is absolutely no problem with people giving mg's ammo, the +5 points even when an MG doesn't need ammo currently make sure of it. Heck friendly soldiers jump into my own mg fire trying to supply me. Shoot at my foot to make me stop to resupply me. I just don't see any need for a special resupplying class, if the current system is realistic and supplies the mg with plenty of ammo.

Well, in actual fact it was not the whole team, but about two people carrying spare MG ammo. The novelty which I am asking for is to have MG ammo replenish after about 1 minute for these two people if they give it away to the machine gunner. Also if they die while they are waiting to be resupplied, the time limit is still effective. All this is in my post above.

[Zetsumei]

Well if the game will have a squad system it could be made that only the soldiers within the same squad as the MG would carry ammo.

But I still don't like the prospect of automatically refilling a soldiers ammo, especially as MG's do not really run out of ammo that quickly if the mg can actually aim. Just like spotter classes for mg's and snipers I just don't see the benefit of it within a multi player game, especially as you would need to work together with a set person and that just generally means loads of grief in public games.

Imagine that there are some mg resupply classes, who says they will stick to the mg they could just run out and do their own thing forcing the mg to suicide. The mg would perhaps need those resupply guys, but those resupply guys will much rather just kill some people rather than protect an mg. The nice thing about just giving everybody some ammo, is that at least at all times there is someone around the MG.

[Erkki]

"Dead bodies that are randomly generated in the map each round with different ammo and wepons one could pick up.
(empty MG nests with an extra ammo or church tower with dead sniper and sniperrifle)
Besides the realism of additional bodies on the ground, you could only pick these weapons/ammo up once per round.
And the bodies are randomly generated at different locations so there isn't always a mad dash to the same places all the time."

It would be nice, but without guns and ammo. I like games what are balanced. So with this i mean, there are no extras for players. For public servers imo it's ok to have extras, but for competive players no. Balance all the way like in Call Of Duty 4 mod called "Promod" for competive players. Only one sniper / two Smg / Unlimited Ak-47 [ In this case k98 ] / 1 shotgun.

When there's randomly something what helps your team, it's kinda only luck, do you get advantage of your enemy by better guns. When everything is even, the only difference is skill. Also tactics of your team and that way the teamplay.

If here is eny CoD4 promod player, atleast he would understand what i'm saying. Imagine 2 snipers in your team and the rest are smg's.

Hopefully you all will understand what i'm saying because my english isnt so good.

[Floyd]

Just curious. Have you ever played Red Orchestra: Ostfront?

[Tiger2]

Originally Posted by Zetsumei

Imagine that there are some mg resupply classes, who says they will stick to the mg they could just run out and do their own thing forcing the mg to suicide. The mg would perhaps need those resupply guys, but those resupply guys will much rather just kill some people rather than protect an mg. The nice thing about just giving everybody some ammo, is that at least at all times there is someone around the MG.

Thats a good point, but then if the dedicated role applied the wiser team would have an advantage against lone wolfs, who would have their MGs run out of ammo in no time. To make this work in public play, mg suppliers can receive automatic notification about players who have to be resupplied on their team.

[Apos]

I hope TWI wont change the MG resupply thing. It works quite well and its kinda realistic. Back in time any soldier could go to the ammo storage and take ammunition for MG. I thought about changing number of points earned for resuppling but if we reduce it then some players on public can ignore or forget about empty MG player...

@Erkki Red Orchestra: Ostfront was balanced well if we're talking about player classes. As i see you're from CoD. Well, IW games are for casual players and everyone there can use sniper rifle, MG, bazooka and other stuff. You should get RO:O ASAP and see how great it works. RO:O doesn't need any promod for clangaming. Oryginal rules are just find.

I only hope, when HoS hits the stores and clanbase/ESL leagues open the rules won't be made by CS/CoD players for CS/CoD players only. Im looking for full scale combat - Red Orchestra style. Not 4 vs 4 infantry only.

[Ralfst3r]

Somehow I missed this thread, good summary.