High levels in low difficulty games

[Nenjin]

Our Rank 6 'squad' plays Hard games to chillax while still getting to shoot zombies.

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

i've also been one of the people asking for something like this for awhile. even though your actual perk level might be higher, you can only use the maximum level as set for that difficutly level.

i suggest:

Beginner - max level2
Normal - max level4
Hard - max level6
Suicidal - no max needed

on the other side of the issue i think it would be fair to set a minimum as well. in this case, you'd have to use a perk that was at the requirement the whole time, so actually you'd not even be able to join the server unless one of your perk levels met the requirement.

Beginner - no minimum needed
Normal - min level1
Hard - min level3
Suicidal - min level4

i think those requirements are pretty fair. the main object is to stop the mixing of "extremes". no more level6s griefing in normal, no level2s griefing in suicidal. open to suggestions in regards to the numbers if they are too high or too low.

Originally Posted by 9_6

What speaks against letting the people who run the servers decide as opposed to standardizing it?

i tend to favor standardizing in this case, simply because i am convinced that not all server admins will use the most ethical judgement on their servers. just like there is a whitelist because TW does not believe that all mappers will make proper maps and will try to slip in leveling maps. you can see an obvious example of this when you saw suicidal servers running the poundamonium mutator on KF-ConcertHall or KF-Defenceb2

remember standardization doesn't completely restrict all freedom, it just slightly limits freedom to help keep the most fair and balanced playing field for all players.

Originally Posted by gusone

If level 6 players could not join hard games then they would be stuck with suicidal servers wihich all run the Defence map. So it would kill the game. Silly idea.

i agree about level6s, that's why i suggested the max for hard would be level6 so that allows level6's two difficulties to play on but keeps them from abusing difficulty levels far below where they should be. oh and for the other thing you mentioned, i'm happy to say i don't think many suicidal servers, let alone ANY server will be running that map anymore

[Undedd Jester]

A fair point, I still think it should be down to admins though. Alot of admins want a good amount of traffic through their server, at least I know I do. If admins want a server exclusive to their preferences then it should be their choice since they are paying for it after all.

I myself did buy my server for my own use, but when I'm not using it I like to know that other players are to ensure its getting put through its paces. If I'm honest I know I'd be quite diplomatic for level limits, since I'veonly kicked 2 people since I started my server. 1 for trader blocking and 1 for being afk.

If this were implemented I definately think it should be down to the admins as to what perks are allowed and what aren't. However one issue comes along when someone switches perk, should they be kicked and serve a temporary round ban if they mistakenly switch from a level 4 perk to a level 3 perk? Things like this would need to be carefully thought out to keep the game fun and not so dictatory

[Anubis_FB]

Originally Posted by -[SiN]-bswearer

i've also been one of the people asking for something like this for awhile. even though your actual perk level might be higher, you can only use the maximum level as set for that difficutly level.

i suggest:

Beginner - max level2
Normal - max level4
Hard - max level6
Suicidal - no max needed

on the other side of the issue i think it would be fair to set a minimum as well. in this case, you'd have to use a perk that was at the requirement the whole time, so actually you'd not even be able to join the server unless one of your perk levels met the requirement.

Beginner - no minimum needed
Normal - min level1
Hard - min level3
Suicidal - min level4

i think those requirements are pretty fair. the main object is to stop the mixing of "extremes". no more level6s griefing in normal, no level2s griefing in suicidal. open to suggestions in regards to the numbers if they are too high or too low.



i tend to favor standardizing in this case, simply because i am convinced that not all server admins will use the most ethical judgement on their servers. just like there is a whitelist because TW does not believe that all mappers will make proper maps and will try to slip in leveling maps. you can see an obvious example of this when you saw suicidal servers running the poundamonium mutator on KF-ConcertHall or KF-Defenceb2

remember standardization doesn't completely restrict all freedom, it just slightly limits freedom to help keep the most fair and balanced playing field for all players.



i agree about level6s, that's why i suggested the max for hard would be level6 so that allows level6's two difficulties to play on but keeps them from abusing difficulty levels far below where they should be. oh and for the other thing you mentioned, i'm happy to say i don't think many suicidal servers, let alone ANY server will be running that map anymore

Originally Posted by Undedd Jester

If this were implemented I definately think it should be down to the admins as to what perks are allowed and what aren't. However one issue comes along when someone switches perk, should they be kicked and serve a temporary round ban if they mistakenly switch from a level 4 perk to a level 3 perk? Things like this would need to be carefully thought out to keep the game fun and not so dictatory

I agree with wearer about the max lvl limit, as long as there is a min limit. I can see the point of Jester to, because if they are allowed entry with that lvl and switch, I personally feel they should be kicked. I have done this on my servers because people feel they will play what they want and an admin isnt going to tell them what to play. Ran into this with a few ppl that think just because they have alot of kills, they think I wont kick them. If the min and max are standardized, I support fully, because you still have lvl 6 players that can't make it in suicidal, and you should not force them to play it.

Imo it should be a server option as a min max listing if this was done, because now if I was to bring my friend into the game, I would not be able to play with him. just a thought

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

Originally Posted by Anubis_FB

Imo it should be a server option as a min max listing if this was done, because now if I was to bring my friend into the game, I would not be able to play with him. just a thought

well, just remember part of what i suggested was that you could still play in the server, you just would only get what the max is for that difficulty level. so example, say all of your perks are level6, well you could still go play with your friends in a normal difficulty server, but your perk effects would only max out at level4. that way you could still play with them, but have it balanced so that there's never a level6 playing as a level6 in a normal server.

[Anubis_FB]

Originally Posted by -[SiN]-bswearer

well, just remember part of what i suggested was that you could still play in the server, you just would only get what the max is for that difficulty level. so example, say all of your perks are level6, well you could still go play with your friends in a normal difficulty server, but your perk effects would only max out at level4. that way you could still play with them, but have it balanced so that there's never a level6 playing as a level6 in a normal server.

Im fine with that, long as it dosent scale the other way, where a low level wants to join a suicidal and it bumps him to 4 right off the bat. They should not be able to join if they did not earn it.

Edit: the problem I have been running into with KF latley, is that the other diff is not challenging, so suicidal is the only way to go, so bringing the lvl down of a lvl 6 to a lvl 3 or 4 in a normal game to play with his friends would be cool, and the only thing that would change really is the need to learn money management. That and the need for accuracy

[Anemia]

This sounds superb, one thing though. The suicidal requirements Must be optional or have some way to pass by. It would be Extremely silly if low levels couldn't even join suicidal. Maybe it's only me but I'd find it really limiting if low levels couldn't join suicidal servers at all (well there might pop up one or two modded suicidal) but generally this would be really limiting for the lowlevels.

Like if I were to start a server I would want low levels to be able to join as well without removing the server population by blacklist it.

The best thing though, would be if they implemented something that makes it possible to have multiple "characters", the only thing that separates them is their perks.

And @ defence: wow no more defence only servers.

[Colonel Panic]

Actually, I do this all the time. Newbies deserve love now and again too, you know.

I run my own whitelist server with Friendly Fire on. Normally it's on Hard or Suicidal difficulty, or on Normal running Poundamonium mut... but I occasionally scale it back to Easy without mutators, and help newbies learn the game, playing as lvl 6 commando, and not really killing things so much as providing tactical advice and coordinating perk progression over voice chat.

I do occasionally kick other lvl 6 players who are obviously just doing it so they can lead the game in kills, just as I enforce a strict teamwork policy on my server regardless of difficulty level: go rambo without communicating with the team, get a warning, do it again, get kicked. That's just one of the perks of server admin, so, if it really bothers you all that much, just do what I do and it ceases to be a problem.

I also play on Normal/Easy when I'm severely inebriated--the game gets a lot more difficult when drunk.

[Zealot]

If you want to ban lower levels from higher level games, that absolutely needs to be up to the admin. As I suggest Higher levels can still join lower level games without worries, but not letting lower levels join higher level games would just be severely limiting.

[dogbadger]

i am liking this idea, and think bswearer's limits, particularly maximum ones, are sensible.
The minimum levels are good but it would be hard to manage if you change perk to one thats lower level as ppl have pointed out.

It would also be good if you could drop your perk level manually if you wished, for an extra challange on harder levels, or a server option to do this OR phaps even better just remove the weapon discounts..
(just came into my head should be in the 'how to make KF harder' thread i guess)

[HaTeMe]

Originally Posted by -[SiN]-bswearer

i suggest:

Beginner - max level2
Normal - max level4
Hard - max level6
Suicidal - no max needed

on the other side of the issue i think it would be fair to set a minimum as well. in this case, you'd have to use a perk that was at the requirement the whole time, so actually you'd not even be able to join the server unless one of your perk levels met the requirement.

Beginner - no minimum needed
Normal - min level1
Hard - min level3
Suicidal - min level4

Should allow server owners to decide that, because while starting out as a low level on suicidal is a bad idea, it can still work out at later waves when you have money for bigger weapons. For example, a lvl 3 commando with scar and AK can do just fine dispite the low level. I used to do that when I still had my low level commando, I started out as lvl 6 berserker and played a few waves until I had a couple of thousand extra, then swiched to my lvl 3 commando and bought scar/ak. Survived just fine. If you die, swich back to high level and spawn with a weapon again.

Also, if you think about SS, prolly even a lvl zero could survive on suicidal with crossbow lol.

It just depends on so many things. Bad players are bad no matter what perk level they have.